Modern Vespa

So my Vespa GTS 250ie will be sitting alone and covered in the garage until I meet someone else with a motorcycle who wants to ride.

The bike was damaged in a crash and that keeps me from car shows with my dad which was the initial reason to buy it.

She's registered, insured and has a plate so I guess now I just have to wait to meet someone with the same interests. I'd like to share this bike but I'm super uncomfortable with people at my back so the only safe choice is riding alongside another scoot.

PS ~ sorry for the confusion everyone. I meant that while I'm comfortable on the machine itself, I know I would be uncomfortable with a passenger on it with me.

I do, however, think it would be nice to ride with another rider on their separate bike.

Wait, so you you just want another rider to buffer you from the cars behind you?

What’s in it for them?

weird

If riding makes you that nervous perhaps the bike needs to be sold.

A harsh judgement perhaps but if you don’t enjoy it and are constantly looking over your shoulder waiting to be hit you’ll likely not last long in city traffic. Motorcycle riding in any form has its dangers, if you aren’t up to dealing with them and being comfortable on the road you should likely give it up for your own good.

Take the MSF Course and ride backroads until you build confidence in your riding abilities -- Otherwise start on a smaller scooter if the 250 is too much to handle -- Anytime your on a scoot or motorcycle, you have to drive on the defense like everyone is out to hit you.

Being honest, I wouldn’t feel safe riding with you currently.
Like others have said - take a safety course, get your confidence back!

The knowledge that their sacrifice truly benefitted another person?

I am personally of the opinion that a lot more people would likely enjoy riding motorbikes if they tried it, particularly by taking a safety course. Worst case scenario, they still leave with a better understanding and awareness of those who do ride.

That said, I can also appreciate someone who's tried it, and recognizes that they might not be the safest rider out on the road. Yes, there are a lot of important safety aspects and skills to be aware of while riding, but if you don't think you can get to a point where you enjoy it, then you're probably making the right decision. There are a lot of good things about sharing the road with other riders, but relying on them can be dangerous for everyone involved.

Maybe you'll feel different about riding in the future. Crazier things have happened.

For me, I found the GTS enjoyable and easy to ride -- however, prob took me about 1k miles riding on the GTS before I was 100% comfortable in any possible situation, I.E. fast turns, gravel/sand on road, rain, stuff like that takes experience which you only gain by being on the road.

Some people just aren't two wheeled people I suppose, it's not uncommon. If riding gives you anxiety and stress you certainly should not be doing it. It's supposed to be fun. Doesn't appear that you have any fun doing it.

Also, aren't you already supposed to have a motorcycle endorsement to ride a 250? So are you riding it illegally then? Certainly should not be doing that. Is this why you want someone else to ride with you?

The car shows comment I'm not understanding very well. Crashed scooter keeping you from car shows with your Dad? How does that work? Just hop in Dad's car and go with him to the car show. You don't need to ride a crashed scooter there.

All this is why my initial comment was 'weird', because your post is a bit weird.

In reading your previous posts, you are new to scooters and riding, and had the expected anticipation of good times with it. Sounds as though that’s been hammered a bit from a fall. Think that’s to be expected too. Sorry you have gone through this.

You had some nice pictures of your scooter previously. Consider posting some current pictures showing the after effects.

You aren’t the only one to have gone through this. Sorry to hear it.

If he comes to drive in Rome or Naples he will take a taxi for life.

I am surprised how many Scooter / Motorcycle riders that I have met over the years that don't actually have an endorsement or never took the safety class to get the endorsement ¯\(ツ)/¯ the safety class is under $300 and a weekend, that little investment may someday save your life.

Perhaps you all misunderstood the OP. Most states allow riding with a learners permit by having a licensed rider with you. Having said that, deciding to ride on a permit and not seek a full motorcycle license seems like it has its problems as well.

If you're uncomfortable and want to ride with a spotter, rather than alone - that's totally understandable.

That being said, I don't think you're doing yourself any favors by avoiding the MC license.

Riding WITH people has its dangers too (be it 2-up or together on different scoots).

I think the only reasonable paths forward are
a) decide PTWs aren't for you (they aren't for everyone) and sell it to someone who will enjoy it and find something that does make you happy
b) become a much stronger and more confident rider. The most unsafe way to ride is in the psychological state you are in right now, IMO. You need to claim space in the road, lean into turns, understand countersteering and evasive maneuvers, etc - many of these things can feel a bit counterintuitive without training, and avoiding them and/or seizing up when a cage is near or there's a hazard in the road increases your risk.

So my humble suggestion is if you don't want to pursue "A" then you should take an MSF course and ride backstreets and backroads for a while (alone or with a buddy as needed) until you feel in control. If you don't feel in control including when hazards come your way, you shouldn't get on the scoot - but you need training and time on the scoot to actually get that control.

My 2c - be safe and happy!

many years ago I had some access to Ontario Ministry of Transportation's statistics via a friend in Queen's Park and managed to get a copy of the motor vehicle accident statistics. This was back in the early eighties and some of the information was gleaned from the Hurt report which was the current hot document back then. Its on the web and worth hunting down and reviewing.

If I remember correctly, half of those killed on motorcycles weren't legally on the road, they weren't licensed, or their bike wasn't or they weren't insured. Half had less than six months experience on the machine they were riding at the time of the accident and half had some form of impairment, alcohol, drugs, over tired etcetera.

So basically. if you take the time to get properly licensed, get some experience under your belt and avoid driving when you really shouldn't be, you stand a far better chance of surviving. Perhaps these numbers have changed over the past 40 years, but somehow I doubt it.

Over the years I've met a few riders who simply shouldn't be riding, attitude, coordination. intelligence... whatever, you could see this guy shouldn't be on a bike. Sometimes they get the message and quit, too often the decision is made for them in some unfortunate way.
Take a hard, honest look at yourself. Do you want to ride? Can you ride? If the answer is yes, get trained and take it seriously, very seriously. Build some skills, get the experience and you will be part of the happiest people on this planet, those that know the joy of motorcycling in its many varied forms.

If I come off as a prick its because I've seen this scenario before and seen some terrible results

unless of coarse you have a Lambretta... then there's no reason to get out of bed in the morning.

Looking at the users past posts, this is a classic case > person wants scooter > person buys scooter > person wrecks scooter > person is scared of scooter > person sells scooter

The GTS has a lot of power and is a lot to handle vs a 50cc honda metro to start off on.

My sneaky suspicion that by posting vs selling they still want to give it a go.

Take the safety course ~ just sign up and do it ~

You said, "the only safe choice is riding alongside another scoot." But that's 100% the most UNsafe choice you could make.

Having anxiety towards riding is EXACTLY why you should take the MSF course. Take it once, take it 3 times if needed. It will help you learn the basic foundations of riding that you wouldn't necessarily learn from reading the DMV manual-- tricks to make certain maneuvers easier, always looking up where you are going (never down), how to safely brake, how to perform evasive maneuvers, etc., etc. You have the benefit of a very experienced coach who can give you personal feedback in a safe, controlled environment; you will NEVER get that on a public road, no matter who is riding with you.

Even after all that you may still decide that riding is not for you, and that's fine. But if you are even considering ever sitting on a scooter again, I would STRONGLY urge you to take that MSF before you do.

With that being said, I am also a new rider and I totally understand being nervous to ride without a buddy... I probably have close to 1500 miles under my belt now and I'm still somewhat anxious in the times where I've ridden alone. I did take the MSF course (and passed it), and you know what? I'm considering taking it again this fall for a refresher, just to be sure I'm developing good habits.

Although I don't live in the USA (and its surroundings), I realized that the safe driving course is essential, not only for those who drive a two-wheeled vehicle but also for other vehicles; if they made them compulsory also in Italy I would be in favor and even considering myself an expert driver I would follow one myself.
The assumption that you are already experts and that you know everything is one of the fundamental errors.
So, dear friend, take a safe driving course and test yourself ... only then will you know what you can do and if you want it.

I see two choices; sell it or take the course and ride. Most of us here will vote for ride, but you need to do what's right for you.

Hi there-

Take the Motorcycle Safety Course. Here in NY you can take the safety course and then you take your road test at the end. I have my NYS motorcycle license as a result of that course. It was excellent.

Regarding your riding anxiety. Well...are you a happy, confident, driver of cars? If driving a car makes you feel equally anxious then it would be very extremely difficult to ride a scooter. If you perhaps consider yourself a "bad driver" in general then you should not ride a scooter.
I have a sister-in-law who is a self-proclaimed "terrible driver." So she doesn't even consider a two wheel option.

I am a very confident and happy driver of cars. I own a 2010 Vespa GTS 300is Super. I felt like a duck in water the second I got on my Vespa. I drive super-ultra-defensive on the Vespa. I assume that no one sees me and I'm extremely cautious. I don't even take it on the highway. I am super happy when I'm riding my Vespa...super happy.

There is no shame in this simply just not being for you. Better safe than sorry. If you genuinely find no joy in it, bag it.
ScooterShark

All this, plus read "Proficient Motorcycling".

https://tinyurl.com/yg8xpcn8

In the UK you can't even get a Provisional Licence (permit) without doing a day's training (CBT - Compulsory Basic Training) that's pretty equivalent to most MSF etc courses for novice riders. Getting a full licence is a whole other expensive ball-game.

So I'd say don't even think of riding until you've done the MSF course - which I guarantee you'll enjoy, there's no-one to mow you down! Then get your license if you still wish to ride.

^^^This^^^

I don't know, maybe it's just me. My Dad rode so from the time I could pedal a tricycle I was getting ready to ride a bike. At five I shed the training wheels and did my motorcycle apprenticeship on the streets. At ten I finally started riding a two speed hand-shift moped and progressed from there. At 22 I finally got my street license after 12 years of dirt riding. Forty-seven (or 59 counting the dirt years) years later I can't imagine my life without a bike or a scooter.

I think some people overthink these things and, as Nike said, should just do it.

This one.
Along time I have watched. Always looking toward the horizon the future.
Never on where he was or what he was doing.

If your mind wanders, don't ride a scoot. You have to ride like you're playing chess. Always thinking ahead.

I understand this. I know lots of PTW riders who ONLY ride with other(s) fixable? I don't understand this. It's reasonable to be uncomfortable, anxious and/or afraid. There are lots of ways to manage this: (1) Identify the fear. Be as specific as you can. This will help you make a plan to move forward. For example, if the fear is being rear-ended at a stop light, build in a cushion for yourself. Leave space between you and the car in front of you. Make sure there's room for you to "escape" if your rear-view mirror shows someone approaching too quickly. Stop with your tire pointed toward that escape route. Watch YouTube videos addressing your specific fear and how to avoid the situation, as well as how to deal with it if it's unavoidable. (2) Take baby steps. Give yourself time for your plan to work. Practice in a controlled environment (class, empty parking lot, etc). Move on to residential or mostly empty streets. Do short FUN rides. Build your confidence. Work your way up to riding to the car shows. Not sure if this was your plan - but - Do NOT take your Dad or anyone else as a pillion until you feel 100% comfortable riding by yourself. FALSE
It is NOT safe for you or the other rider(s) unless or until you are comfortable.

I sincerely hope you find something that works for you and gets that scooter back on the road.

The damage may be fixable but my dad has some classic cars and a Dodge Viper. I'm not really into cars. My Vespa was meant to be a classic style vehicle that I could bring to car shows when he attends but the damage may make that impossible and I have no mechanical knowledge so it's difficult to dismiss as something I'm 'working on'.


I'm also sorry about another misunderstanding. When I mentioned my concerns about people at my back I meant that I don't feel comfortable with people holding my back. I have anxiety about being held by a passenger or anyone holding my back in general.

Hah, no. I'm just saying I like the idea of riding with someone just for company while I'm not cool with a person on my scooter with me.

Thanks for your input and suggestions everyone. I just want to clarify I'm confident on my scooter and if I choose to ride I will be taking classes and a rider course.

To clarify, I meant that I would love to ride with someone but I'm not cool with a passenger at my back. I'm not cool with people holding my back in general. That has nothing to do with the scooter and a lot to do with a messed up childhood. My own mother had to let me know when she was approaching from behind for a hug.

Having a second rider was just for company, not as a buffer or anything of the sort. :-/

As an aside, the damage may be fixable but it will never be quite showroom material with my limited mechanical knowledge and budget.

Thanks. I think I need to sort some personal stuff before riding... maybe I could find a one passenger seat just to let people know I'm not doing this for them but because I love Vespa.

Okay, thanks for clarifying your original statement. I don’t think any of us understood what you were trying to say.

That said, you now seem fixated on the passenger part. The majority of us ride the majority of the time without a passenger, so it seems... odd that this is your sticking point. If you don’t want to ride with a passenger, then don’t. Riding without a passenger is neither unusual nor requires any kind of statement or justification. Certainly no need to change the seat.

Your statement has gone from vague to mystifying. I still think you’re not really telling us what’s going on here.

I feel like I'm even more confused. Why would a two-up seat make someone think you're doing something for them?! Why do you even think you'd ever need to take a passenger in the first place?!

And if you're doing "this" because you love Vespa, if by "this" you mean riding something which intimidates you, I'm even even more confused. I admire Indy cars and fighter jets, I don't need to pilot them to prove my love for them.

This is all so weird.

Oh, tons of riders never ever carry a passenger! That is not an unusual thing at all, and there are just as many reasons as there are riders. Just because a bike comes stock with a passenger seat doesn't mean it will ever get used for one (and honestly, many folks here will be more than happy to describe just how uncomfortable a GTS is for riding two-up). If anyone tries to push the issue of riding with you after a firm "no," you can literally just ride away. That really isn't something that commonly happens.

I stopped keeping track after I hit over 100k miles of riding, and I hardly ever carried a passenger. As far as I was concerned, a passenger seat was just extra storage space for a bag, a bungee net, or a make-shift backrest.

Take the passenger footpegs off. Put a bag in the way. Wrap spikes around the back end of it. Tell people they can't ride unless they provide their own helmet. Say you haven't had training to take a passenger. Your insurance won't cover it. Your bike gained sentience and told you it didn't want a passenger in addition to you as a rider. It's your bike, it's up to you who does and doesn't get to ride it. Anyone who doesn't like it can die mad about it.

I have had MP3s with BIG passenger seats for 13 years. They have never held a passenger. My choice.

BTW, I think that "messed up childhood" should be enough of an explanation that any of us here need.

I removed the passenger pegs on my Honda. I have to remove the left one to service it and they're a pain in the ass to remove.

Well you win the internet and my heart for the day. Thank you.

A few people I know have indicated they want to ride with me. I'm looking for ways to avoid needing the conversation. Maybe some way I can avoid hurting feelings but the vehicle doesn't intimidate me. People sometimes do.

I love Vespa for their simplicity and quiet demeanor. They're the only true cruisers on two wheels. Everything else is kinda loud and obnoxious.

Probably a good idea for me. I can just tell people it doesn't have passenger pegs and it won't hurt anyone's feelings.