Modern Vespa

yet another question about different air box styles (APAC vs ECMA/NAFTA)

After 30-45mins of riding my APAC Supertech the air temp at the entrance to the throttle body rises from ambient (eg 20C) up to 50C

This ain't so good as oxygen density (kg/m3) at 20C is 10% higher than at 50C


Does anyone have ECMA/NAFTA HPE and would like to compare? If you have a Supertech OR a 75" GTS then you can use my android app to monitor the airtemp and if you don't you can use a thermal camera or infrared 'non contact' thermometer to check the pipe temp at the entrance to the throttle body (not as good as using the app, but does seem to match with all my testing)


I'm not assuming you'll get the same results as ECMA/NAFTA because they take fresh air from near the front of the transmission directly into the airbox unlike the snorkle on the APAC that runs through the side of the engine bay which is at 50C


Graph below: after 31mins the air temp rose from 19 to 49

I'm guessing the air isn't being heated to 50° travelling from outside to the throttle body.

did you mean on ECMA/NAFTA? or are you questioning my measurements?


the rear/engine side of the airbox also measures 50C with my thermal camera as does the pipe from box to throttle body. these would be the same with ECMA/NAFTA so there's gonna be *some* raising of temp but I doubt as much as the APAC snorkle

So you have actually measured the temperature of the box, not the actual air entering it..

I'm afraid to ask, but to what end??? Are you planning to enter some racing competitions in the near future?

Myself just like many others on this forum would like a bit more power. Wouldn't you?

Here you go then.

https://www.jaycar.com.au/thermoelectric-peltier-module-68-09w/p/ZP9104?pos=1&queryId=3fda2d4e5765c83f1585f8aa85feeb80

Was thinking something more passive:

Like swapping the air box to a ecma/nafta one IF they run at a notably lower temp.

Or wrapping the snorkel and back of the air box with silver tape (the kind using in insulation and/or air con).

Or maybe just cool the engine bay by adding or enlarging the gills in the side skirts.

so no one?

So, that many, hey...

You are not going to get more power by just cooling the air at the intake...

You will also need to compress it...

Intercoolers alone don't do much as far as power increase...

1. do some research. eg just search "cold air intake car" on google

2. read my post. 10% extra oxygen is a good thing. this is easy maths

3. did I say intercooler? no, thats gonna restrict the air flow too much. Read my comments above about what I am thinking of doing.

4. since you're not being helpful please take your Negative Nellie comments elsewhere

That's nice...

In my opinion the problem is that the air filter is too close to the engine and to parts that overheat, perhaps simply by moving the box away and putting it in front to take advantage of the air from the stroke, a reduction in temperature could be obtained.
It would take a forward-facing pipe-shaped intake duct to channel the airflow.

yup.

the ECMA/NAFTA have colder air entering the airbox as they don't have the APAC snorkle which is also hot. This is why I'd love some measurements from a ECMA/NAFTA to see how much difference there is. ignoring the practicality considerations, yes moving the box forward would be colder *but* the longer piping would have negative effects on airflow ...

Warm the scoot up for 5 minutes.
Do a high speed run.
Tootle around for another 30 minutes until things are cooking.
Do a high speed run.
Grab some ice from the servo and fill the pet carrier.
Do a high speed run.

Post data here for our benefit/amusement/speculation/critical analysis/hand waving.

I do have similar things in mind 😀

Probably do a few 0-60s, then ride for an hour into the country, then do a few more 0-60s. Park the bike, go for a hike for an hour or two. Do the same tests on the way home. Recording all this with my app (see my 0-60 recent post).

For example, use a computer fan to direct the fresh airflow from the front using a hose and to the airbox behind?