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Johnny Two Tone
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Hmmmm...

Can you sneak up on the throttle? You've probably already tried it but super slow to see if it clears out and revs. It's acting like a super fat idle jet...

Hmmmm......
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Jet Eye Master
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Try the same test with the choke on.
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Johnny Two Tone
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qascooter wrote:
Hmmmm...

Can you sneak up on the throttle? You've probably already tried it but super slow to see if it clears out and revs. It's acting like a super fat idle jet...

Hmmmm......
yeah you can't sneak by it, I did try
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Jack221 wrote:
Try the same test with the choke on.
Will do
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Kudos to Jack, it runs wayyy better with choke on, I got into 4th gear even!

Will look to clean the idle jet and check for fuel line kinks.
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Johnny Two Tone
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I have a 38-120 idle jet that I can try out, close enough to see if that's it.
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Jet Eye Master
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UTC quote
Poke the tiny hole in the end of the pilot with some wire.
How's it ride?
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Lucky
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If it seems like it just sort've hits a wall when trying to rev out, usually at a consistent RPM, it's most likely the CDI.

Love the first start video! They are always such an awesome milestone on any project.
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Jack221 wrote:
Poke the tiny hole in the end of the pilot with some wire.
How's it ride?
It's hard to say from just a joy ride up and down the condo driveway, but it pulled pretty strong for a stock engine. I'm thinking gearing is good.
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Johnny Two Tone
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chandlerman wrote:
If it seems like it just sort've hits a wall when trying to rev out, usually at a consistent RPM, it's most likely the CDI.

Love the first start video! They are always such an awesome milestone on any project.
I think the fueling issues will sort it now.

The first start video is essential, it's the payoff for all the work. Here my nagging doubts were the CDI and stator coming from the PX, condition unknown. The engine was at least leak checked so I felt reasonably good that it would start.
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Lucky
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The first motor I ever rebuilt was my VBB. Not really a good first rebuild option when you're new to the whole process and trying to do it mostly off the Haynes manual. Plus, with hindsight and experience, I can now see that it was challenging even by VBB standards. The fact that I kept with it at all is some sort of testament to my stubbornness.

Maybe that's part of why I love them so much--it's a testament to getting over such a major hump in a very tangible way. Even now that I've done it more times than I can be bothered to count, I still learn from (and make dumb mistakes during) the process every time.

Hopefully you have a Known Good CDI lying around to test the revving out.
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Johnny Two Tone
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With the choke it seemed to rev fully out in my (very) limited drive.
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Lucky
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Hmm...so it's just too lean across the board, it sounds like.

Up the main and see what happens, I guess.
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Johnny Two Tone
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I'm going with blocked idle jet and possibly kinked fuel line and/or blocked vent. I've already replaced the whole main stack and had no change earlier in the process, so unlikely any blockages there. Since swapping carbs didn't fix it, it is something that didn't move (fuel system) or something that came along (carb brass, specifically idle jet).
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Yeah... swapping carbs but putting in the dirty brass from the first carb wont get ya there.

Swap in a clean carb with known clean jets. I would bet a dollar that the fix.
Bike looks GREAT!
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Johnny Two Tone
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Well, in my defense I did ultrasonic clean the jets and carb during the rebuild, but sometimes the "ordinary amount" is not enough, apparently!

I have another 20.20 here but it has not been cleaned. I think we have the required pieces to work it out.

Thanks for the confidence on how the bike is coming along. Still more to do but I think it will polish up pretty well.
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Sorry if that sounded snarky! Didn't mean it too at all. I had the same issue on a px150 and I just didn't clean the carb Good enough the first two times.
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Johnny Two Tone
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Birdsnest wrote:
Sorry if that sounded snarky! Didn't mean it too at all. I had the same issue on a px150 and I just didn't clean the carb Good enough the first two times.
Nope, I read you properly, no snark was assumed. I just was saying I did try ROFL emoticon . I never see snark from you, it would be shocking!
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Lucky
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sdjohn wrote:
Nope, I read you properly, no snark was assumed.
Of course not. NSM is a 100% snark-free zone.
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Johnny Two Tone
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chandlerman wrote:
Of course not. NSM is a 100% snark-free zone.
Oh we get the snark Razz emoticon . Just not from birdsnest! But honestly moderation does have its benefits, the snark is far less than I'd see in my old days on LCUSA.
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Johnny Two Tone
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Rainy today and not much time. But I did grab a gallon of gas to get more in the tank and check the fuel flow. First check = ~1min for a pint, but coming in fits and spurts with a whistle from the cap. Not ideal. Tried without the cap, a bit faster and more smooth. Up to the rafters and dig out the cap from the Stella tank. ~50s for a pint, smooth and no whistle from the tank vent. Should have never put the tank in without checking, just like you don't install engines without leak checking.

The general guideline from Lambretta world is at least 1/2 pint in 1 min on standard machines, I think we are fine given that it is a standard tap, not a fast flow.

No sign of kinks in the fuel hose. Length was already proper at 24".

Next up idle jet check.

I swear this bike is more Stella than PX as we move along here....
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Johnny Two Tone
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Well, as is often the case, it appears to be more complicated than I hoped.

I have the tank flow confirmed now, and a 38-120 known good idle jet in there. It did a few passes well up and down the street, then went back to misbehaving. It does respond to the idle jet, I adjusted it, it was way too far in after I put the carb in (clearance issues) and the RPM responded. Once I took it on the main road, back to BLAHHHH which does NOT respond to choke.

I've ordered the PX stator and CDI. I can use them on the PX engine if nothing else, so no worries.
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Lucky
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OK...just watched your youtube video. Have you tried hitting it with starting fluid? If it's a carb issue, it'll rev up and then die off. If it's electrical, it (probably) will just die when it tries to rev up.

Best guess I've got for troubleshooting off the top of my head.
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UTC quote
I was working on Bianca (P200e) and very similar problems happening, but then it just stopped trying to even catch.

I checked spark, and nothing. I'm going to replace the CDI this afternoon.

Hopefully a CDI will fix your issue. I'm hoping. It fixes mine...
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Johnny Two Tone
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Yeah I realized I needed the parts in order to solve it, and fortunately Mercato had them in stock and they are already on the way today. My bet is on the trigger but they didn't have that in stock and the whole stator was only $80 or so anyway. To get the LT coil and the trigger would be like $50.
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Well the answer is in. The CDI was fine, it was in the stator, meaning either trigger or LT coil. Running well with the original pilot jet and original CDI.

The 2 stator plates showed the same resistance values cold. Once you get 1/2 way around the block the old stator falls on its ass, so it's likely an open in the coil that is temperature sensitive.

On to the fork drop!! Goals there are to rebuild all moving parts, renew the brake, fix the nonexistent steering stops, replace the fender, and a bit of rust repair on the leg shield behind it.
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Lucky
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Glad to hear you're over that hump!

I was wondering when we were going to get an upate.
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Johnny Two Tone
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It runs pretty well, too. I like the Sito on there, it has good torque for a stock 150. I've never had one of the smaller engines. Having the gearing right makes it reasonably peppy. We will see how I feel once I hit some hills later, but it feels quite decent.
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UTC quote
sdjohn wrote:
Well the answer is in. The CDI was fine, it was in the stator, meaning either trigger or LT coil. Running well with the original pilot jet and original CDI.

The 2 stator plates showed the same resistance values cold. Once you get 1/2 way around the block the old stator falls on its ass, so it's likely an open in the coil that is temperature sensitive.

On to the fork drop!! Goals there are to rebuild all moving parts, renew the brake, fix the nonexistent steering stops, replace the fender, and a bit of rust repair on the leg shield behind it.
You could try sticking it in an oven at say 150°F to warm it up and see if you can find the failing part. Not sure how warm it really gets back there. There are a few places that sell replacement parts.
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Johnny Two Tone
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My money is on the lt coil but I'd just replace them both to be sure. The lighting coils are fine. I will probably sneak them into future parts orders….
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sdjohn wrote:
My money is on the lt coil but I'd just replace them both to be sure. The lighting coils are fine. I will probably sneak them into future parts orders….
My money's been on the pu coil after you ruled out the main stack. You can test it with a multimeter and a heat gun. Anyway, for 80 bucks I'd rather have all those parts new. Wiring things tend to fail together.
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So on the forks - are the Stella and PX fork and pivot link the same? I think they are, both using the bigger spindle. If so, I can remove the Stella disc components from the Stella fork and rebuild it as a PX drum. The paint on it is better and the aluminum has far less corrosion.
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Stella fork tear down, will try swapping back plates and hubs so I can keep the bike a roller and rebuild this as the new fork.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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Umm yeah, needs rebuilding.
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Lucky
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Little brake cleaner. Little paper on the shoes. Good-to-go!
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Ya think?!? Razz emoticon
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Johnny Two Tone
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UTC quote
Roller status maintained courtesy of spare Stella parts. The answer to my question above is that the forks and pivots are identical between 20mm axle px and Stella.
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parallelogramerist
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sdjohn wrote:
So on the forks - are the Stella and PX fork and pivot link the same? I think they are, both using the bigger spindle. If so, I can remove the Stella disc components from the Stella fork and rebuild it as a PX drum. The paint on it is better and the aluminum has far less corrosion.
Now that you've figured it out...Yes, the Stella and 20mm PX forks and pivot links are the same. You'll be just fine swapping the the PX drum and Stella hub back and forth.
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Johnny Two Tone
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It really is an amazing thing to have a whole spare bike worth of parts. Makes me want to do another P after this one.

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