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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
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UTC quote
That Stella stash keeps on giving.
@chandlerman avatar
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
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UTC quote
sdjohn wrote:
Well that's why the lock isn't working…
This way you won't be locked out if you lose your key, though.
UTC

Hooked
VNA1
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Hooked
VNA1
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UTC quote
just came across this thread
how do you intend to gear up the motor to work with 8'?
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
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UTC quote
Aircobra wrote:
just came across this thread
how do you intend to gear up the motor to work with 8'?
It's a sprint gearbox, and to get the RPM correct I'm doing 23/65 primaries.
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Hooked
VNA1
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UTC quote
my 10" sprint has 23/67
will the original mesh correctly with a 65?
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/primary-driven-gear-65-teeth-input-shaft-drt_40432290?q=primary
its only 2 teeth difference, what top speed have you worked out?
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
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UTC quote
Aircobra wrote:
my 10" sprint has 23/67
will the original mesh correctly with a 65?
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/primary-driven-gear-65-teeth-input-shaft-drt_40432290?q=primary
its only 2 teeth difference, what top speed have you worked out?
it gets complicated, i took the whole primary gear set from a 200, but used the sprint tree. i know they will mesh then.

top speed depends on how many RPM you can pull from a basic 2 port 150 motor. I think I've gone conservative enough on the gearing that it will pull to low 50's.
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
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UTC quote
Tool adjustment, fits now
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
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UTC quote
Obligatory photos before closing bottom end. Kick start gear is there….
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
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UTC quote
Its mated up, the crank puller is worth the scratch. Old engines no longer scary.

I forgot about top end stuff . No circlips. I found a small end bearing in my stash.
If I understand correctly, this old oil gear can be a thick clutch spacer vs the one I had in the engine. Because I used the 23t clutch from a p200, I need the thick one??
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
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UTC quote
piston circlips have shipped, will get back to this soon. before I installed the clutch I want to see a successful pressure test, since the seal is right where you can test it in the early motors.
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
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UTC quote
Ring gaps .015" and .017" (.38mm, .43mm).

Not very tight but seems ok.
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
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UTC quote
Here's the book spec
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
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UTC quote
Smooth out some old minor damage with Emory cloth
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
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UTC quote
First leak check - fail at cylinder head.
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
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UTC quote
Time for figure 8s
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
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UTC quote
The cylinder was worse than the head, but both needed work. Cost me a gasket and Hondabond to go back and fix what I should have done from the get go.
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Hooked
VNA1
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Hooked
VNA1
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UTC quote
What material is that taped to the glass.how long do u need to do it for
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
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UTC quote
120 grit sandpaper on the glass.

Next problem. The piston actually hits the head while spinning the engine, maybe the cylinder and head aren't a match?

I'm using the Bajaj head on the left, which seems to be for a 150. The other 2 port head greasy gave me seems to be for a 125…. I assume that's a no go.

Looks like I need a head gasket or thicker base gasket.
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@socalguy avatar
UTC

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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bodgemaster
@socalguy avatar
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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UTC quote
Base gasket. Could actually be a good thing ... raise the timing, give the engine some high end pep.
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
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UTC quote
Yeah the challenge will be to find one that works with these tiny ports. Might have to make it.
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
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UTC quote
It's better, but still leaks a bit at the head, dropping from 12 psi to 8 in about 5 min. I can hear the leak at the head when I give it the soapy bubbles. the rest of the engine is tight. I will lap the head and cylinder again and finish with finer grits once I get the base gasket. Of course a head gasket would get 2 birds with one stone…
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@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
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Location: Nashville

276 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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276 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
Are you using any sealant on the head? If not, get yourself some Hi-Temp spray-a-seal and watch all your problems (not) bubble away.
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
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UTC quote
You know I am a fan of that but I was never sure about using it as a head sealer. I have nothing on there now but I'm not opposed to doing this if you've had luck with it.

Works great for exhaust flanges like small frame and Lambretta
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
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276 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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276 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
I've put it on ALL my heads for ten years. Even the BGM, where it's probably not even necessary.

I had horrible head leak problems when I first started my tuning journey using DR's, which I now realize combine terrible machining with no head gasket, so that plus lapping the head & cylinder became SOP for me and I've just never stopped with the spray-a-seal.

Ditto with a smear of hi-temp gasket sealer on the cylinder base. Those are the two hardest parts to get right in a pressure test, IMO, so why not give ourselves every advantage?
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
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UTC quote
I love hondabond for the base - it works a charm but is kind of a pain to remove. Like I'll be doing later today. I wanted to verify the rest of the sealing so I can button up the clutch area and stuff now. It's frustrating not having the kick start turn the engine because you wanted to see if the clutch seal would leak.
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
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UTC quote
once the squish is fixed, I will use the copper spray, thanks chandlerman
@christopher_55934 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
@christopher_55934 avatar
2007 Stella 225
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Posts: 3547
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
I've put it on ALL my heads for ten years. Even the BGM, where it's probably not even necessary.

I had horrible head leak problems when I first started my tuning journey using DR's, which I now realize combine terrible machining with no head gasket, so that plus lapping the head & cylinder became SOP for me and I've just never stopped with the spray-a-seal.

Ditto with a smear of hi-temp gasket sealer on the cylinder base. Those are the two hardest parts to get right in a pressure test, IMO, so why not give ourselves every advantage?
I used sealant on base of my cylinder this time, when you remove the head does the base sealant crack? I've been putting off getting cylinder head machined for this reason.
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
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Location: Nashville

276 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
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276 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
I used sealant on base of my cylinder this time, when you remove the head does the base sealant crack? I've been putting off getting cylinder head machined for this reason.
Not unless you pull on the cylinder. If the exhaust is still attached, you're probably fine. You could make sure the head was free of the cylinder by twisting a large screwdriver between the head and cylinder to break the seal, though.
OP
@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
Not unless you pull on the cylinder. If the exhaust is still attached, you're probably fine. You could make sure the head was free of the cylinder by twisting a large screwdriver between the head and cylinder to break the seal, though.
yeah, usually the cylinder, base gasket, and case are pretty glued together after that, so you shouldn't worry about removing the head.
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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UTC quote
nice that Scooter Mercato is carrying all these base and head gaskets in stock these days - order placed
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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UTC quote
Oops, right after you place the order is always when you find the next missing item.

P200 pressure plate is not the same. Time to go scavenge the parts box.
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
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UTC quote
parts box yield = one notched pressure plate with fancy ass bearing inside from SIP - too good to use on this engine.

I violated my cardinal rule when I submitted that order earlier. Never place your mercato order until Sunday night - you will find one more part you need.
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Location: San Diego, CA
UTC quote
last minute phone call to Dave at Mercato gets the pressure plate into the box.... love those dudes.
@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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Posts: 4597
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4597
Location: Florence, OR
UTC quote
sdjohn wrote:
last minute phone call to Dave at Mercato gets the pressure plate into the box.... love those dudes.
One time I got a call from Matt:
"Are you sure you want that for the VBB? Aren't you working on a P200?"

So very cool!
OP
@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Location: San Diego, CA
 
Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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UTC quote
he did mention that next time I should just make another order and that they would combine them for me (I'd probably add a note to the 2nd order asking to be sure). they don't have time for too much nonsense
@orwell84 avatar
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Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
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Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
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Posts: 3659
Location: northern New York
UTC quote
sdjohn wrote:
he did mention that next time I should just make another order and that they would combine them for me (I'd probably add a note to the 2nd order asking to be sure). they don't have time for too much nonsense
They sling those parts pretty fast. Orders are always quick. I have considered rebuilding my vbb/VBC engine just because it can be done and the sort of stock resto cred and the sound they make…
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Location: San Diego, CA
 
Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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UTC quote
I'm not sure exactly how I get 1.6mm squish by adding a 1.5mm spacer to an engine that wouldn't rotate through by hand when the piston hit tdc. I didn't measure the spacer but it's covered in hondabond now. You can see it was too close though!
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@sdjohn avatar
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Posts: 9004
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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UTC quote
Where did the rest go? At least it's 99%+ that it wasn't into the engine. It's one of those thin head washers. Found another in the stash.
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@sdjohn avatar
UTC

Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Location: San Diego, CA
 
Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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UTC quote
I heard it fall when it broke, I think it went down here…
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@sdjohn avatar
UTC

Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Posts: 9004
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9004
Location: San Diego, CA
UTC quote
And of course a spacer means your studs are now too short for the cowl double nut, so clean off the copper spray a gasket and pull the studs back out a bit…
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