Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:59 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
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Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:59 pm linkquote
The wires look good, I'd like to put on new points and hope for the best. The flywheel is well magnetized.



Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:25 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:25 pm linkquote
I'm confused because none of the diagrams have 2 blues. White could be yellow, but most diagrams look like this. However, this one doesn't make sense because the other lighting coil isn't even connected in the diagram? So weird. I'm assuming the coil with the green on it is the LT coil and the other 2 are lighting coils, but maybe I'm wrong? Actually looking at it now, the coil with red connection (opposite the condenser) is the LT coil because the points connect to it in the photo I attached. Anyone care to explain this sucker? It looks like one coil only does the rear brake light? And the other does everything else? It's so weird because I've got an extra wire now that I look at it. The diagram has 5 and I have 6.



Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:41 am

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 3047
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:41 am linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
Anyone confirm these as normal or not?

White and the blues are independent of the rest.

(Edit) blue to blue 1.4

No entries in the stator wiki yet for this common stator
With low ohm readings, 0.4 and 0.7 ohms, it's hard to get accurate reading. What is the resistance of just your meter leads touching?
Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:02 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:02 am linkquote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
With low ohm readings, 0.4 and 0.7 ohms, it's hard to get accurate reading. What is the resistance of just your meter leads touching?
About 0.4.

I'm probably going to have to disassemble it enough to see the wiring and draw a diagram. If I'm lucky oopsclunkthud will interpret for me.
Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:38 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Lucky
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Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:38 am linkquote
I'm going to guess that one of the blues goes to the headlight (yellow on the diagram) and the other to the tail/pilot/speedo bulbs.

Green to horn, red to ignition.

Is one of them dead? I may have missed the genesis of this subplot.
Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:11 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:11 am linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
I'm going to guess that one of the blues goes to the headlight (yellow on the diagram) and the other to the tail/pilot/speedo bulbs.

Green to horn, red to ignition.

Is one of them dead? I may have missed the genesis of this subplot.
Summary - is this stator any good and how do I use the wires? (Red / Green / White / Black / Blue1 / Blue2). Resistance values on last page.

It doesn't seem to match the popular diagrams.
Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:48 pm

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
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Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:48 pm linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
Anyone confirm these as normal or not?

White and the blues are independent of the rest.

(Edit) blue to blue 1.4

No entries in the stator wiki yet for this common stator
With a meter lead resistance of 0.4 ohms and your red wire reading 0.4 ohms, you either aren't capable of reading the low resistance or it's shorted to the plate.

Question is, where does it go? Looks like it's going to condenser is it supposed to be shorted through the condenser to the plate which is ground?

The others at least aren't shorted to the plate.
Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:55 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:55 pm linkquote
OK so here is where we are at.

I pinned it out and got resistances, see the photo.

Coil 3 looks to be the LT coil (https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/supply-coil-flywheel-charging-coil_85022000?q=coil), has yellow in and yellow out, attached to points and coil 1.

Coil 1 is a lighting coil of some sort. (https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/supply-coil-flywheel-sip-2-lighting-coil_16084510?q=coil). The yellow comes in from the LT coil and the green from the harness. 2 bare copper connections on it. From the sprint diagram above green seems to go to the horn and whatever else the switch might connect it to (the switch layout is unclear).

Coil 2 is a lighting coil. It is different than most. It has 2 blues on one side and a white on the other. The closest I can find to it on SIP is this one: (https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/supply-coil-flywheel-1-lighting-coil_16084400?q=coil). There is little resistance between white and either blue, or between the blues themselves. What isn't clear is if the blues should tie together, or if we should use this as 3 circuits. I know sometimes if you tie things together that should not be, you can get out of phase AC canceling each other.

In short, coils 1 and 3 are just like the Sprint diagram above. Coil 2 is where I have a bit of a mystery going on.

The new resistances are taken on a fluke at work, probe to probe is 0.2 ohm, as noted in the picture.

Anyone have a known good points stator to grab me some reference resistances?



Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:23 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:23 pm linkquote
if all else fails, there are cheapo 12v ac points stators from India, but I think we can use the one I have if I figure it out.



Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:46 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:46 pm linkquote
I have another really beat points stator, with the 2 wire coil 2. Blue and yellow show no connectivity to each other nor to ground. But I have no idea if that is normal or not.
Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:52 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:52 pm linkquote
I added the regular blue/yellow lighting coil to my Mercato cart. I can convert to regular VBB style stator if I just swap it out. I may still venture $30 on a 12V AC Indian points stator though just for amusement.
Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:42 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:42 am linkquote
I love that you can edit the cart while they are still waiting for your SIP parts. I upped it to two lighting coils, so I can just get on with it and do a 12v ac conversion per this thread:
Converting a 6V stator to 12V

Then I can use the BGM conversion harness and a 3 pole regulator and just not deal with the hassle of the balanced lighting nightmare.
Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:17 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:17 am linkquote
Working on the rear hub. Somebody thought it would be nice to powder coat the stub. Dumb. Didn't fit into the hub. Sanding fixed that. Now that it's together I am wondering if those "extended nuts" are supposed to fall into the holes in the drum? the drum holes don't look too centered to the hub studs, and maybe they won't fit down in there?





Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:01 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:01 am linkquote
Unistrut as a hub holder? (edit - idea fail)





Last edited by sdjohn on Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:47 am; edited 1 time in total
Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:43 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:43 am linkquote
so dumb....

how do you tighten a nut on there if there is a piece of unistrut blocking it???

ideas for a hub holder to do up the axle nut?
Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:56 pm

Addicted
1968 VBB150
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Addicted
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Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:56 pm linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
so dumb....

how do you tighten a nut on there if there is a piece of unistrut blocking it???

ideas for a hub holder to do up the axle nut?
Cut it into a u shape. BOOM.
Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:10 pm

Lucky
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Lucky
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Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:10 pm linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
Then I can use the BGM conversion harness and a 3 pole regulator and just not deal with the hassle of the balanced lighting nightmare.
This is the way to enLIGHTenment.
Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:12 pm

Lucky
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Lucky
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Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:12 pm linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
so dumb....

how do you tighten a nut on there if there is a piece of unistrut blocking it???

ideas for a hub holder to do up the axle nut?
You don't have a 22mm socket that'll fit in there? Not even with a little help from The Persuader?

Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:30 pm

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
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Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:30 pm linkquote
You want to bolt the drum to the hub when it's off the motor and without the wheel on? Why? Those shoulder nuts expect the wheel to be in place and those two small screws are all you need now.

You can use the wheel & tire w/ a wedge or your rear brakes to hold things when you tighten the axle nut.
Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:39 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:39 pm linkquote
V oodoo wrote:
You want to bolt the drum to the hub when it's off the motor and without the wheel on? Why? Those shoulder nuts expect the wheel to be in place and those two small screws are all you need now.

You can use the wheel & tire w/ a wedge or your rear brakes to hold things when you tighten the axle nut.
probably the order of my disorder confused you.

i want to make a holder tool to do up the axle nut. I'm going to use 2 studs on the hub to do it. This will be done with only the 2 tiny screws in there. you don't even need the drum on to do this part, but my drum and hub are a tight fit, so I'm not looking to take them apart again unless I need to. (stupid powder coat).

The shoulder nut question is because the drum looks a bit off center to the hub, and I'm wondering if those collars are gonna go down in the holes when I bolt the wheel to the hub. If so, I MAY need to make sure there is a path for them by opening up the drum holes slightly.
Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:41 pm

Lucky
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Lucky
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Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:41 pm linkquote
Yes, they do drop down into the drum, IIRC, but I've never really looked at how far.
Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:52 pm

Style Maven
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Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:52 pm linkquote
I see. I guess I'd try backing the 2 retaining screws off slightly and running the nuts down into the clearance holes a little ways to center the studs, then just light snug up the retaining screws? I never thought about it before but when I mount wheels with these odd nuts(older smaller wheel studs need them), I can feel the resistance when they try to get in the hole and then they suddenly pop in. You could chamfer your wheel stud holes in the hub to help get them started if it's a problem, but I wouldn't otherwise open them up..

Last edited by V oodoo on Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:54 pm

Lucky
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Lucky
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Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:54 pm linkquote
V oodoo wrote:
You could chamfer your wheel stud holes in the hub to help get them started if it's a problem, but I wouldn't otherwise open them up..
No need. Once they're seated the first time, you can tighten up the drum screws and they'll stay where they are supposed to be.
Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:55 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:55 pm linkquote
Holding tool done



Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:59 pm

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Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:59 pm linkquote
Agreed, but the top 2 of John's studs could be problematic and once the wheel is on you can't tighten those screws.



Nice holding tool there!
Wed Aug 31, 2022 2:04 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Wed Aug 31, 2022 2:04 pm linkquote
I didn't bring those weird nuts to work but I'll check the clearance for the collar and figure out what to do on that side if anything. I'll even try it with a wheel for fun, while not on the engine.

it's a hodge podge of parts, some Bajaj. not surprised it may need some adjustment.
Wed Aug 31, 2022 3:43 pm

Lucky
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Lucky
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Wed Aug 31, 2022 3:43 pm linkquote
V oodoo wrote:
Agreed, but the top 2 of John's studs could be problematic and once the wheel is on you can't tighten those screws.

Nice holding tool there!
You have to take the wheel back off, but if there's a pressure fit of the drum onto the hub, the position will be set anyway.
Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:35 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:35 pm linkquote
Disassembled it all, spun the hub 180, left out the little screws, centered the studs, and paid much more attention to drawing the stub in evenly by alternating nuts to pull it together. All set now.



Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:44 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:44 pm linkquote
It's a 12v stator now

Should I replace the points and condenser or am I better to keep existing? Existing is unknown condition.



Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:46 pm

Lucky
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Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:46 pm linkquote
If you have known good quality ones on the shelf, I'd so it while the stator is still on the bench.
Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:50 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:50 pm linkquote
That's the rub, are the new ones ok normally? Sometimes condensers are a crapshoot. I'm guessing yeah, do it.
Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:53 pm

Lucky
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Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:53 pm linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
That's the rub, are the new ones ok normally? Sometimes condensers are a crapshoot. I'm guessing yeah, do it.
Condensers either last a few days or last forever, it seems like.
Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:04 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:04 pm linkquote
well that turned into a bit of a debacle.

the new points were a different style than the old points. one has a post coming up from the plate and the other sticks into the plate.

fortunately Kajiit has opened a new location in san diego and had additional stator plates to choose from. I swapped the plates and used the new points - done.

the other debacle today was I ordered 2 lighting coils from Mercato of the blue/yellow kind but got 2 different ones. So I had to rescue an old coil and use it while I get the exchange worked out from Mercato. The old one seems to measure out OK, so I'll end up with a fresh one for a spare.
Thu Sep 01, 2022 7:39 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu Sep 01, 2022 7:39 am linkquote
for those who like me did not know, the pin type points can be used in the old plate with fixed post by removing it and drilling out the hole. (5mm = 7/32" for us yanks)



Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:19 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:19 pm linkquote
So where is the best place to put a 3 pole 12v regulator on the vbb frame? on the engine side or in the left cowl area?
Thu Sep 01, 2022 1:16 pm

Lucky
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Lucky
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Thu Sep 01, 2022 1:16 pm linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
So where is the best place to put a 3 pole 12v regulator on the vbb frame? on the engine side or in the left cowl area?
Put is on the brace up by the seat bolts. Just drill n' tap. Add a backing bolt if you feel the need.



Thu Sep 01, 2022 6:20 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu Sep 01, 2022 6:20 pm linkquote
anyone have a pic of a points stator orientation for me? I'm not sure what way to point this thing
Thu Sep 01, 2022 6:25 pm

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Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 6498
Location: San Diego, CA
Thu Sep 01, 2022 6:25 pm linkquote
nevermind, thanks MV search!

No marks on stator plate. What position do I mount?
Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:24 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 6498
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 6498
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:24 am linkquote
Little things.

Now officially an Arcobaleno again



Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:29 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 6498
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 6498
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:29 am linkquote
Son of a bitch, too big



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