charlieman22 wrote:
what, they can't hold a flashlight?
![]() Fri, 30 Dec 2022 02:44:42 +0000
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
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Fri, 30 Dec 2022 02:44:42 +0000
quote
charlieman22 wrote: what, they can't hold a flashlight? |
OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Fri, 30 Dec 2022 03:25:47 +0000
quote
chandlerman wrote: I still think it's electrical. I can't recall, but did you check the ignition with a timing light to make sure the spark isn't jumping around? |
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Fri, 13 Jan 2023 00:04:37 +0000
quote
Stoked - all my lean slides and leaner idle jets are on the way. They made it from Germany to scooter-speed and to Scooter Mercato. One got the SIP parts and the other the Scooter Center stuff.
Let's get this puppy jetted in and roadworthy. I also replaced the stator I stole from the Stella engine.
Positive
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Sun, 22 Jan 2023 23:24:24 +0000
quote
Lean slide in and 42/160 idle in place of the 48/160. Runs way better but still fails the 5 minute restart unless you turn off the tap for 15s before turning off the bike. Will restart 5 min later if you do that.
Have to wait again to try cold start. I tried that with 45/160 but it flooded big time. Maybe less/no choke when I try with the new setup. ![]() ![]() |
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Sun, 22 Jan 2023 23:28:15 +0000
quote
Oh snap - today's cold start was the clean out the rotary pad test oil ingested cold start
![]() I bet the next one is better.
Positive
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Sergeant at Arms
![]() Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Sun, 22 Jan 2023 23:50:39 +0000
quote
James Bond smoke screen option could be a plus when you go to sell!
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Posts: 7105 Location: San Diego, CA |
Mon, 23 Jan 2023 01:05:00 +0000
quote
Well that's the smallest idle jet that can be found, so I hope it works. After that I'll be cutting the main if need be. At 100 with a sito plus it seems reasonable but may be bleeding in too much. Perhaps a 98 or 96 might work. I'm going to try not to though.
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Molto Verboso
![]() Joined: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 21:32:14 +0000
Posts: 1754 Location: northern New York |
Mon, 23 Jan 2023 01:30:06 +0000
quote
sdjohn wrote: Well that's the smallest idle jet that can be found, so I hope it works. After that I'll be cutting the main if need be. At 100 with a sito plus it seems reasonable but may be bleeding in too much. Perhaps a 98 or 96 might work. I'm going to try not to though. |
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Mon, 23 Jan 2023 04:18:30 +0000
quote
Different animals, with the reed valve thing in the Stella. It's clearly still a bit fat at idle, but the only way to lean it out more is to steal from the main. I already closed the plug gap to .020" but maybe I should go to a b6 plug.
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Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
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Mon, 23 Jan 2023 09:20:04 +0000
quote
Is there any chance the float level is too high? If the float is not so floaty, needle too short or seat worn/damaged etc. Fuel will dribble into the Venturi.
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![]() Mon, 23 Jan 2023 13:50:33 +0000
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
Posts: 7538 Location: Nashville |
Mon, 23 Jan 2023 13:50:33 +0000
quote
wrong needle? There's the "big" and "little" needles for the SI. For some reason, I've had issues ordering the big one and getting the little one.
Using the little one produced similar symptoms for me. |
OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Mon, 23 Jan 2023 14:40:47 +0000
quote
How do you know if you need a big or small needle?
I've had the same issue with my other carb on this bike so I'm doubting it's related to one carb body but I could exchange float bowls as an experiment. I'm game to buy both needles and a new float or even a new float bowl. |
Molto Verboso
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Mon, 23 Jan 2023 14:48:55 +0000
quote
chandlerman wrote: wrong needle? There's the "big" and "little" needles for the SI. For some reason, I've had issues ordering the big one and getting the little one. Using the little one produced similar symptoms for me. |
![]() Mon, 23 Jan 2023 15:28:28 +0000
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
Posts: 7538 Location: Nashville |
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Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Mon, 23 Jan 2023 15:28:28 +0000
quote
Lemme see if I can get some comparative pictures. The "large" needle is significantly larger, but they are both the same height. The smaller needle just doesn't seal as well and produces dripping.
Someone else will chime in with better detail, I hope, because I may have to pull the float chamber off a carb to show the size difference otherwise. |
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Mon, 23 Jan 2023 16:19:59 +0000
quote
Well - I made it to work on it.
Cold start was OK, didn't need much choke but did start without a fight with all the filter and top on. Drives decently - it is torquey with this top end. 2nd wants to lift the front end often. No speed range on the thing, tops out so early. Gutless up hills, has to stay in 3rd. But about what I expected. Refuel was an adventure. Wouldn't restart. Figured it was flooded and started with the whole flood routine. But in the end it wouldn't restart until I gave it some choke and turned the tap on. It seems I may have found the lean end of the jetting, which is very useful. This means we can make it work.... |
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Mon, 23 Jan 2023 16:36:37 +0000
quote
And now I just tried the 5 minute restart at work - flooded all to hell again.
![]() I think a float bowl, float, and needle are probably a good place to begin. |
![]() Mon, 23 Jan 2023 16:44:56 +0000
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
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Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Mon, 23 Jan 2023 16:44:56 +0000
quote
Okay...here's what I meant about the needles...
Per SIP, there's a 4.5mm needle which is 3.7x3.7mm and a 5.2mm needle which is 4x4mm. The easy way to tell them apart is that the rubber extends onto the shaft of the larger needle. The 5.2mm float is the only one that works without leaking similar to your situation in my SI carbs. Anyways, that's what I got. Like I said, I don't know why or the origins, just that's what's worked for me. ![]() 4.5mm / 3.7x3.7mm ![]() 5.2 / 4x4mm |
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Posts: 7105 Location: San Diego, CA |
Mon, 23 Jan 2023 17:08:27 +0000
quote
new float bowl and float on the way from mercato
new 5.2mm float from scooter-speed, as it is unclear what is in the mercato basket of floats... |
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Mon, 23 Jan 2023 18:03:35 +0000
quote
sdjohn wrote: And now I just tried the 5 minute restart at work - flooded all to hell again. ![]() I think a float bowl, float, and needle are probably a good place to begin. Why that scary-lean slide for starting issues? What can happen with a needle seat leak (even with a working tap off) is there's still enough fuel to get a small leak into the venturi. 5 minutes isn't enough time for it to evaporate. In this case it isn't a hot/cold issue. Starts right away cold, since the leak has evaporated. I'd suggest just letting it run 15 or so seconds with the fuel tap off before killing it. But as you're building this to sell, try a spring-loaded needle with a viton tip and see if if you have luck. Should be 4.5mm(?). You could also test what you have in this manner: ![]() Bench test. |
Ossessionato
![]() 1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Mon, 23 Jan 2023 18:21:07 +0000
quote
The 5.2mm needle is for the "Cosa" float top. All others are the "normal" 4.5mm. I only use the spring loaded needles...
Positive
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Mon, 23 Jan 2023 18:40:12 +0000
quote
well good thing I have a spare cosa top in my stash
I like the float check test there. I'm wondering if it has to be gasoline for the test. I'm thinking water would work fine. I'm also wondering when that hose goes upwards, how much "tank" they used to create the pressure and how high up it was. |
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Mon, 23 Jan 2023 18:54:30 +0000
quote
Ray8 wrote: Just went through this. Why that scary-lean slide for starting issues? What can happen with a needle seat leak (even with a working tap off) is there's still enough fuel to get a small leak into the venturi. 5 minutes isn't enough time for it to evaporate. In this case it isn't a hot/cold issue. Starts right away cold, since the leak has evaporated. I'd suggest just letting it run 15 or so seconds with the fuel tap off before killing it. But as you're building this to sell, try a spring-loaded needle with a viton tip and see if if you have luck. Should be 4.5mm(?). You could also test what you have in this manner: |
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Mon, 23 Jan 2023 21:33:30 +0000
quote
5 hr soak and restart = flooded. Did not turn tap back on, started after ~10 kicks with WOT hold to clear the flood. I think we are onto it with the float bowl / seat / needle / float idea.
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Ossessionato
![]() 1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Mon, 23 Jan 2023 21:46:53 +0000
quote
Had the same problem with a brand new Spaco SI26 (actual 25) on my blue P. It was peeing itself, emptying the whole float through the main jet. Same with tap to OFF. Never managed to fix it whatever I tried (new float, needle, etc.). Replaced it with a Spaco - Pinasco SI26 (actual 26) and all my woes were over...
Positive
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Tue, 24 Jan 2023 02:13:08 +0000
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sdjohn wrote: well good thing I have a spare cosa top in my stash I like the float check test there. I'm wondering if it has to be gasoline for the test. I'm thinking water would work fine. I'm also wondering when that hose goes upwards, how much "tank" they used to create the pressure and how high up it was. If you use a blood pressure gauge with your leak-down kit, you can turn the float/needle/cover assembly upside-down, lay it flat, and see if it holds 200mmHg. Didn't end up trying this. ![]()
Positive
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Sun, 29 Jan 2023 04:09:51 +0000
quote
Testing a spare float chamber. Marked the water line with scotch tape and waited for 5 minutes. No change in level.
Next up this one on the bike and that one on the tester…. ![]() ![]()
Positive
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OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Tue, 31 Jan 2023 01:40:58 +0000
quote
I got you you bastard.
You can see the drips from the float.
Positive
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![]() Tue, 31 Jan 2023 01:44:35 +0000
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
Posts: 7538 Location: Nashville |
Tue, 31 Jan 2023 01:44:35 +0000
quote
sdjohn wrote: I got you you bastard. You can see the drips from the float. |
OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 02:54:23 +0000
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Tue, 31 Jan 2023 01:52:44 +0000
quote
the cinematography leaves much to be desired but it's hard to hold the mustard bottle and film.
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Sergeant at Arms
![]() Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Tue, 31 Jan 2023 02:02:52 +0000
quote
sdjohn wrote: it's hard to hold the mustard bottle and film. all kidding aside, that's awesome John. it must feel great after all the aggravation it's put you thru! |
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Tue, 31 Jan 2023 03:46:25 +0000
quote
I will try to fix it by cleaning up the seat. It's a Dellorto float bowl, worth a try. Toothpaste, q-tip, and a drill coming up.
Positive
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Ossessionato
![]() 79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
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Tue, 31 Jan 2023 04:04:23 +0000
quote
sdjohn wrote: I will try to fix it by cleaning up the seat. It's a Dellorto float bowl, worth a try. Toothpaste, q-tip, and a drill coming up. It's really cool you nailed this down though. I've never taken it that far... |
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Tue, 31 Jan 2023 04:57:46 +0000
quote
I really want to sell it
![]() ![]() Nah even more than that I want it to work right. I can't leave it like it's been running.
Positive
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OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 02:54:23 +0000
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Sun, 12 Feb 2023 23:20:52 +0000
quote
First try around the block and 5 minute restart with different float bowl flooded.
Found I hadn't secured it well, and the top circle part wasn't tight either. Fixed that and was able to do the 5 minute restart. Upped the pilot from 42/160 to 45/160, closer to stock. 1.5 turns out (Dellorto). Restarts fine and feels better. Short drive confirms. 5 minutes later, still restarts. 5 minutes more and still restarts ok. All with tap on, never turned off. Fingers crossed, we might have it. |
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 02:54:23 +0000
Posts: 7105 Location: San Diego, CA |
Sun, 12 Feb 2023 23:23:24 +0000
quote
I'll wager that whatever this shit is is the problem with the float needle seating. I cleaned this carb before using it. Gunk from sitting??? I don't know.
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![]() Sun, 12 Feb 2023 23:48:11 +0000
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
Posts: 7538 Location: Nashville |
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Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
Posts: 7538 Location: Nashville |
OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 02:54:23 +0000
Posts: 7105 Location: San Diego, CA |
Mon, 13 Feb 2023 00:10:52 +0000
quote
chandlerman wrote: Fatberg? Don't dump grease in your gas tank? ![]() |
![]() Mon, 13 Feb 2023 00:23:25 +0000
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
Posts: 7538 Location: Nashville |
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Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
Posts: 7538 Location: Nashville |
Mon, 13 Feb 2023 00:23:25 +0000
quote
sdjohn wrote: Seriously, WTF is that?!?! That could have been your big shot at owning an Ape right there.
Positive
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Sergeant at Arms
![]() Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:59:19 +0000
Posts: 12906 Location: The state of insanity, SoCal |
Mon, 13 Feb 2023 00:36:54 +0000
quote
oh wow! that's gnarly.
ethanol fuel with an additive package reacting with water or oil? possibly a cleaning solution? what does the tank look like? |
![]() Mon, 13 Feb 2023 00:40:37 +0000
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
Posts: 7538 Location: Nashville |
|
Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
Posts: 7538 Location: Nashville |
Mon, 13 Feb 2023 00:40:37 +0000
quote
I had ethanol fuel gun up a carb. It was like it had been filled with moisture absorbing pellets, only made of Vaseline.
That looks like lithium grease. You said you swapped it, so it was known-not-gnarly at some point? |
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