@chandlerman avatar
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Lucky
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@chandlerman avatar
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UTC quote
sdjohn wrote:
I mean yeah, I have one for the rear, isn't it enough already??
I'd argue that if you're truly serious about going fast, that's one more than you even need.
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Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
I'd argue that if you're truly serious about going fast, that's one more than you even need.
Weight and drag reduction, take them off all together.
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Lucky
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Think about it: if you have no brakes, you'll never get into a skid and crash. Brakes are clearly a safety hazard!
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Johnny Two Tone
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So similar to someone else's recent question - what model does your VBB show on your title? Is it a VBB or a 150 or ? I'm gonna get the title situation squared away on the VBB and put it on non-op. I'm currently leaning towards make - Vespa and model - 150.
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Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Moderibbit
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It's a bit of a random thing, but if you ever plan on moving it can potentially be an issue because different states handle the titling differently. I had a proper title in CA that listed my ET3 as an ET3... but when I moved to GA they have a purely electronic system that only has a list of American market vehicles in it - which means no ET3. They refused to deviate from the list. Almost created a serious problem for me with the title migration because they "did not compute"

Luckily, the guy behind the counter didn't want to spend his whole afternoon arguing with me, and so he eventually listed it as a 150 Super and said "this what you have, Welcome to the state of GA"

I'm not happy about this, though - because now I have a borked up title if I ever move to another state, and who knows how they handle these things.

I guess I'm saying, if you have a US Market bike, you might want to make sure you title it with what it's likely to show up as in the books
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Lucky
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On the Tennessee title, it's barely even a Vespa. Make "VESP" Model "VES" VIN is the number, but no "VBB2T"

And it's no different for the Sprint.
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Johnny Two Tone
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That's funny chandlerman, my TN title for the px came back with full vin including the model code, make VESP, model PX1, because I filled the form with PX125.
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Lucky
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The only one that's anywhere near correct is the GL, which I had to do as a replacement title, so probably the same process as Saint's uses.

My Illinois titles all had accurate descriptions prior to me updating the registrations, too.
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Johnny Two Tone
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Joe told me I can choose VBB or 150 for the model since you only get 3 characters anyway. Said it doesn't really matter.
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Moderibbit
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Moderibbit
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UTC quote
I guess less info is better than too much if it comes to a situation like I ran into. My issue came about because there were details on there that didn't exist in the system. So I guess "scooter, cc unknown, color unspecified" would have saved me some headache Laughing emoticon
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Lucky
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The color conversation was also fun.

DMV Clerk: color?

Me: now or when I get finished with it?

Clerk: good question.

Me: just put gray.

Clerk: Is that what color it is now?

Me: close enough.

Clerk: okey dokey.
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Johnny Two Tone
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UTC quote
Rear hub on.

Selector box on. Should I be able to select all the gears by hand? I'm in neutral and the box is in neutral also. I tried selecting while rotating the engine but it seems hard to get to 4th. I made sure the gears meshed on assembly and the orientation matched the disassembled version.

Cdi mounted, wiring definitely too short, stator needs rewiring.

Went to assemble top end and no dice, wrong rings, too thick to fit in the groove. Old ones .075", new .095". I knew there were too many 150 rings to guess right first try.

What's up with this carb box lid, seems huge?
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@chandlerman avatar
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Lucky
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Yes, you should be able to get all four gears by hand. If not, start by confirming that you can get them all by moving the plunger with the selector box off, then try with the box. It may need replacement.

The airbox *is* huge. Ironically, I gives better flow to a filter that's super-restrictive stock. Go figure.
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Johnny Two Tone
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4th won't go….
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Johnny Two Tone
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4th with no selector box
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⚠️ Last edited by sdjohn on UTC; edited 1 time
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Lucky
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Oof. Fourth gear on the stack backwards?
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Lucky
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UTC quote
So it works without the box? Sounds like you need a new box or maybe a spacer.
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Johnny Two Tone
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I had to repost the pics, I realized 4th is furthest in, so the one where the extension is greatest. My bad.

Yes I'm wondering about backwards 4th on the stack. Shoulder to 3rd or towards the circlip??
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Johnny Two Tone
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I knew it was correct but had to prove it.

So what next????

I was gonna steal the selector box from the px engine but it has a chunk out of it and the engine is locked, so no easy way to pop it off anyway.
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Johnny Two Tone
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It's weird, if I put it back together, sometimes the box will do fourth but not first. Take it off again and put it together, you will get fourth or first but not both.
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Johnny Two Tone
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UTC quote
https://modernvespa.com/forum/post2400449#2400449

Hmm according to this magazine snip that whodatschrome put up a while back, it seems that I might have a non-efl selector box. I have no hole where the article says there would be one on an EFL box....
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Johnny Two Tone
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UTC quote
https://scooterlab.uk/vespa-px-gear-selector-boxes-part-1-workshop/

But by this article, we have an EFL selector box based on the shape of the 2nd gear notch out of neutral, and the fact that the pawl is basically even with the gasket surface.

I think we have the right part but it might be a dud. I'm not sure.
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Lucky
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Lucky
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UTC quote
Is the axle fully seated in the bearing? I'm just thinking of reasons why you might have some side-to-side play that would cause the cruciform to misalign with the gears here.

If you can find all the gears without issue moving the plunger by hand and the gear tolerances are correct, then it pretty much has to be the box. So either you need a shim to get it to correctly align the plunger with the gears or, as you suspect, the box is bad.

It's a cheap enough part I'd try throwing another one one there and see what happens.
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parallelogramerist
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parallelogramerist
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UTC quote
The non EFL gearbox has a spacer washer between the cross and the plunger. With the EFL, no spacer is used. Did you happen to install that spacer?
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Johnny Two Tone
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UTC quote
It's the new 4th. When I put the old 35t one in it hits all 4 gears.

I tried the shimming idea with washers but it still wouldn't go for all gears with the new one.

I'm stumped how it can happen…. But I think I need a new 36t 4th. Probably from another source to get from a different batch.
⚠️ Last edited by sdjohn on UTC; edited 2 times
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Johnny Two Tone
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UTC quote
whodatschrome wrote:
The non EFL gearbox has a spacer washer between the cross and the plunger. With the EFL, no spacer is used. Did you happen to install that spacer?
No spacers were used in the assembly of this engine
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parallelogramerist
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parallelogramerist
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UTC quote
sdjohn wrote:
It's the new 4th. When I put the old 35t one in it hits all 4 gears.

I tried the shimming idea with washers but it still wouldn't go for all gears with the new one.

I'm stumped how it can happen…. But I think I need a new 36t 4th. Probably from another source to get from a different batch.
Was the new 36t 4th a genuine Piaggo part?
@safis avatar
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Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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@safis avatar
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UTC quote
If the engine's still split a few photos of the axle and cogs would help. Your selector box is definitely not OK since 3rd isn't flat to the selector's body. Definitely looks like low quality or the newer crap by Piaggio...
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Johnny Two Tone
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UTC quote
Yeah the 4th came in a piaggio bag. The selector is LML most likely. Not sure whether to replace it and keep the selector box or vice versa. Or replace both . Damn scooters!
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Johnny Two Tone
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The engine is still apart, what would you like to see? Pics, I can do.
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Johnny Two Tone
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Pics as promised, 2 alternate 4th pictures
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UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
If the engine's still split a few photos of the axle and cogs would help. Your selector box is definitely not OK since 3rd isn't flat to the selector's body. Definitely looks like low quality or the newer crap by Piaggio...
So it should be flat and flush correct?

2mm looks a lot!
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Johnny Two Tone
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Flush or higher, the article says. Mines about 0.5-1 below.
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I think the lugs are mis machined on the new 36t, this one is longer than the other, pattern out of square? I'm still not sure how that would do this though.
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Johnny Two Tone
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UTC quote
I'd need the "new" version (EFL) has anyone tried them?

I showed my gears to a friend with a good eye at work and he agreed the new 36t is cut wrong. I'm gonna start there.
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Lucky
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sdjohn wrote:
I think the lugs are mis machined on the new 36t, this one is longer than the other, pattern out of square? I'm still not sure how that would do this though.
Assume you're troubleshooting two different problems. If the gear is cut wrong (looks like it has a smaller opening there, then it would foul the cruciform from time to time, which makes sense.

And if the pawl is off on the selector box, it won't get things into gear anyways.

You buy those parts off ebay or something?
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Johnny Two Tone
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UTC quote
The gear from Mercato, I'm hoping they will take it back. The selector box from Kajiit's house of wares on the Stella. I'm gonna drop by Scooterwest tomorrow and find rings that fit, a proper gear, the platform jack, and maybe a selector box, I will let them have a look at it.
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Lucky
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@chandlerman avatar
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UTC quote
I'd think Dave would do right by you on the gear since it's defective. Did you measure the slot with calipers to see how much smaller it is than the other three? That'd settle any discussion real quick, I'd think.

With the selectors, they're technically a Wear Part, so *shrug*. I had to try a couple different selectors to get one that meshed everything correctly when I rebuilt my Stella in the new cases.
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Johnny Two Tone
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UTC quote
I will get a selector box anyway, the one on the px engine has a chunk missing on the side, so I will need one anyway.

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