Modern Vespa

I know this forum is slanted towards the GT series and that is ok. It IS the biggest baddest Vespa ever and I understand the attraction. I myself was holding out and shopping for one earlier this year. However, I see loads of issues on this forum alone about them. Not to mention the HPE engines and the crazy oil consumption. Sounds like they are almost just as thirsty for oil as a 2 stroke. Not to mention all the Water Pump issues I read about here as well. I realize that a more complicated machine will have more complications, but it really seems to be a continuing problem. I have been following along in its development for many years but it seems that development is going in the wrong direction.

In our club we had a 2020 Vespa GTS HPE blow its engine after just 1200 miles. The Oil was filled with metal particles afterwards. Now I hear Piaggio is suggesting you check the OIL LEVEL every 1000 miles. They must be kidding me. While it is a good idea to check the oil even often, but an new engine that uses oil enough to be at a low level after just 1000 miles is a LEMON. Poorly designed. I encourage every owner of one of these to check your states LEMON laws and avail yourselves of it's powers where ever possible.

Before you all take out your knives, I work for a race car engine builder and have been riding bikes for over 25 years and restoring classic cars for another 40. I know a little about engines. I does not however take an expert or a semi expert to simply read the issues on this forum to know that there is a serious issue going on with these newer engines.

And? :?

I drive a 2010 with almost 12k on it. Don’t know about the new engines but mine runs like a top?
I suspect that if there are troubles with the new engines they will rectify them. There was a fuel pump problem with my model and years, they recognized and issued recalls on the part. Work done and have not had a problem since (that I didn’t cause).
I am not disagreeing with what you are saying. I am however stating Lots of us have had no problems for many many miles. Mayhaps you should look for an older Model GTS, if ya want one.

Two words of advice:

1) people post about their mechanical issues, not the absence of them. So you will get a very warped view of the reliability of any scoot you don't own yourself if you use "I saw a bunch of threads on MV complaining about X" as your yardstick.

Not to say it isn't valid information or *can* be indicative of a bigger problem

2) it's a bit shaky ground to go to any forum and tell a bunch of people who bought X that you are sure glad you bought Y instead (especially, again, based on looking in at X from the outside).

Usually goes smoother to talk about how much you love Y and why

Still, as someone who loves old 2-strokes I can certainly appreciate enjoying a simple engine and the corresponding small list of things to break

I've got 19,000+ miles on my 2020 HPE.

19 k on a couple year old bike! The beauty of year round riding, has served you well.

I love you friend and even if I were sure that your scooter was just a piece of iron I would never tell you, I would try as far as possible to help you live with it because if we are a community we are also in sharing problems.
Having said that ... I invite you to look at the sales data of the various models on the Italian motorcycle and scooter sites.
The numbers speak for themselves, obviously the assistance and maintenance performed well are a good business card. I could only make two comments:
1) Incredible!
2) Normal.

To choose.

I can't say anything else ...

It's not my place to defend or decry the new 300s - haven't done the reading on them as you say.

Just noting to the OP that you're bound to anger people who love their scoots when you frame a post about your joy with your scoot around having not chosen their scoot instead

So grateful that I bought before the pandemic!

If you think checking your oil every 1000 miles on a scooter is too much of a bother, maybe they are not for you. Perhaps you should consider an electric alternative.

Honestly I could care less. I love me a Vespa. Hell I also have a Ural and a 6 cylinder 160HP BMW that is apparently a bitch to work on its so complex. A well I have a lot of fun riding them. Vespa are honestly not a big expense compared to the fun they deliver and the beauty of a scooters perfect form.

So I have 3 unique and special rides. Works for me.

I ride a Chinese bike. I CHANGE my oil every 1K miles. Just saying.

I’ll not defend the HPE, because I don’t own one and honestly know little about it.

But the Quasar engine is a solid, reliable, robust engine, full stop. I’m not even going to put any qualifiers on that. Even if you take into account that what you hear about on Modern Vespa will be warped (due to the lack of people posting “My bike didn’t break today”, obviously) it’s still a very small number of problems.

So ride what you like. If you need to use other people’s random problems for validation, maybe you’ve got bigger issues.

So, the takeaway is I should refrain from posting about Windows 10?

Interesting post - some thoughts:

Blown engine at 1200 should have been covered by warranty and owner should have got a new engine and/or replacement scooter since the manufacturer would ask for the broken engine back to inspect and see what went wrong, Curious if the 600 mile break in oil change was done or did the owner skip?

New design always means new problems for the first couple of years on any vehicle / car.

HPE is just a High Performance Engine which means they retweaked the design to get every inch of power out that puppy, a quick oil check at 500 or 600 not really that big of deal.

Riding Style Spectrum Analysis: You have the weekend warriors that take it out for a spin and worry about every little single thing (I.E. the coolant crisis of 2021) possible vs the regular riders that push that machine to the limits. Will say I'm in the latter crowd and having ridden for over 30 years on two wheels, the GTS is one hell of a machine and if you take care of it (simple regular checks) it will last. Naturally, every machine breaks down from usage, but when compared to other products on the market in the style and price range there is no real comparsion since its a top notch designed product, not perfect, but top notch.

15K on my GTS and enjoyed the hell out of it. It's been a great 6 years. Yeah, water pump went last year and a cracked injector now, but I'd do it all over again in a flash...though maybe with an H PE next time. The only thing that would stop me might be a shiny new BV.

As for oil checks, aren't you supposed to do that every couple weeks anyway? On a longer ride I shoot for checking daily, or every other, minimum.

Second owner of a '12 & 13 GTS 300 Sport/Touring, here. Other than some odd baubles such as a temporarily clogged fuel injector, a flat tire, and a leaky tire valve, they've been solid.

Dissatisfied owners are rather vocal about their grievances whilst happy ones talk about their adventures. I also own a problem-free Moto Guzzi, which should tell you on which aisle I stand.

What you don't know is that I also drive Vespas and sell them!
As I have said many times (you haven't read all my posts) I help a friend Piaggio / Vespa dealer, he often gives me one of his demonstration Vespas with advertising of him when I go to the rallies.
But ... I use them and if I have to be honest I feel more satisfaction with Yamaha engines, and also with Yamaha chassis.
But the Vespa is a Vespa, I admit it and there is none like it.
I still have to try the HPE but I must say that the best of the modern Vespa is the 200.
I'm biased? A little, yes ... but I try to be honest, how could I not at least appreciate the Italian genius?
PS: I've been buying Fiat for forty years.
PPS: the best Vespa of all time remains the PX series and I can give lessons regard scooters .... and how, I've lived them since I was a boy.

IMHO the Primavera is the best looking Vespa. So hat tip. I don't like big buts and I cannot lie.

It seems to me that we are all here to share our love for scooters of all types. That will work best if those who own a certain model don't try to exalt themselves over those who own other models, and if those ride a lot of miles don't feel they are more important than those who ride fewer miles. The quickest way to kill a forum is when elitist attitudes are allowed to flourish.

I have a new GTS HPE with just under 600 miles on it, and I check the oil level every 2-4 rides. When I fly a piston airplane, I check the oil every ride.

Checking the oil is easy and is cheap insurance.

What's the problem?

Ah, have you ever owned a scooter or motorcycle where the manufacturer does NOT suggest you check the oil at least every thousand miles if not more frequently than that?

You have to understand that the nature of websites and bulletin boards is that the people with a problem are the ones who post. I have owned 2 GTS over the past 15 years (a 250 and a 300). Neither one ever needed a replacement water pump, or fuel pump, or fuel injector, or ECU despite all the stories you read on line. Both were (and the '15 still is) as reliable as a wrist watch.

This forum is full of members that think resale value is important. Now tell a potential buyer that the bike for sale uses oil.
When I was going to sell my Honda. I was up front about it using oil. It was the end of the conversation.
But that's OK. I was glad I didn't sell it 5 years ago and I'm better off not selling it now. I check the oil every 200 miles.

Anyone ever think, the Italian stuff is just not as reliable as the Asian stuff? since 1990, now on 11th new Maxiscooter, over 400,000 miles with them, zero engine trouble, for the most part WalMart house brand 10-40 oil.

That's right ... It's not true that I despise the Vespa, I deny it. My thought is that doing maintenance and level checks extends the life of the engine. Any engine!

Mayby I'm just too old school, but I actually check oil level of my bike every time I use it

Have to admit that without an oil sight glass it takes a few sec more, but I've done it with those too.

The same with brake fluids, coolant level... mayby I'm just paranoid.

Admittedly, every time I change my coolant, I think an air cooled 150 may have been a little bit better.

But I have to say that my GTV 300 has performed flawlessly, except for one afternoon of the engine light coming on sporadically on a 300 mile day after an insane 750 mile day. (Do not recommend that, but it does get you across the country faster.)

I consider it a rule to check your oil, tire pressure, and coolant level before every ride. Do I do that? No I do not. But if the oil level gets low, and I haven't checked it, that's on me, not on the Vespa. Generally though, I rarely notice changes in oil level on my 2012 model between oil changes.

Considering the environment that a scooter engine lives in, checking its oil periodically should be no big deal. I check mine every couple of hundred. A scooter engine lives in a sealed compartment. My motorcycle engines hang in the air.

Checking my scooter is no harder than unscrewing the cap, wiping it clean and sticking it back in without screwing it back.

And, Vespa makes thousands of scooters a year. One or two blow ups can occur.

Crap happens.

I check my oil every couple hundred miles. Occasionally, it needs a squirt. I did that with my 2009 GTS 250, but never had to add any between oil changes. Not a big deal.

What is a big deal is where they moved the dipstick on the HPE, making it more of a pain in the ass to line up the dipstick to get it in the hole. Yes, there is probably a "Jim, you are getting old" joke in there somewhere. I think my HPE is a great bike. Really glad to have that over a 150 that would limit me in doing highway miles when I want. But, I wouldn't get on a forum and tell you that you made a mistake in getting a wussy scooter because that would be rude.

My wife's Xmax has the oil level sight-glass... you still have to get on your hands and knees to check it, but it is fast and easy. Her Xmax goes faster than my GTS and gets better mileage. Has more storage under the seat. That said, I still greatly prefer my GTS HPE. Of course, I have always said that I have better taste than my wife. *









* Apparently, one does NOT win an argument by saying, "Yeah, but you picked me, so what does that say about your bad judgement??"

I don’t fault the OP for expressing the opinion.

But neither do I consider the oil usage of the model to be a “flaw” in need of a “fix”. It’s more of a “characteristic” to be acknowledged and allowed for. (And what brand or model doesn’t have some of those?)

If I could un-do the deal on mine tomorrow, I wouldn’t do it. It’s a solid machine. Nothing to fear. And tons of fun! As my first Vespa (fourth scooter, and over thirty-odd bikes overall) it has exceeded all my expectations.

.

Actually there’s a 600 mile first service so that oil should have been changed then. Was it missed?

31 reply's and only one name caller. I'd say that's not too bad.

?

I'm glad you like what you have. I agree with what you posted in another thread:

This.

With modern Vespas, I think they're all good. The choice depends entirely on your needs (real or perceived).

My major need was for something that was highway-capable, and could get me literally anyplace I needed (or cared) to go. In that case, nothing but a GTS would do. And so far things have largely been great. If I didn't need the highway capability (i.e., if I still lived within Gotham's environs), a Prima or Sprint would've fit the bill just dandy. Along the Garden State Parkway, I'm with Maverick's "need for speed"*, in the name of just keeping up with the maxi-trucks and SUVs racing about. (And those folks drive too fast as it is.)

(*In relative terms, of course…we're not talking Tomcats here.)

And anyway, when I want to sell a Vespa to an undecided I tell him "go to the MV forum and read" and you will be convinced.

19K? Awesome -- I'm at 2K on my 2020 HPE and pretty proud of myself.

[quote="Captain Jim"]

My wife's Xmax has the oil level sight-glass... you still have to get on your hands and knees to check it, but it is fast and easy. ] UNQUOTE



I saw Scooterwest has a sight glass for the 2020 HPE that can be installed as an aftermarket addition. I'm tempted.

There was a recent topic talking about it ...