Modern Vespa

You know what a Primavera has in common with an almond?

No nipples.

So you've got equal chance of getting milk out of both of them.

I think a thread for ejectees to continue their arguments would be an interesting social experiment. Maybe host it in NSM for added giggles. Jess would need to stock up on ban hammers of course.

I think Jess has enough worries without adding any more ...

A drop in the ocean - level detail in discussion , but caught my eye:

I may be wrong, but the latest I've followed this 'ban over 100hp bikes' discussion within EU countries, I believe France dropped the ban?

Now, Paris is a large and rather independend area, so they may still have something there, but I believe the rest of France at least now allowes +100hp bikes.

The same with Germany. Makes sense, as BMW's flagship boxer GS makes over 100hp.

I do recall the history: during Euro 3(...may have lost the count ) emission regulation discussion the EU parliament did touch the idea of banning the sales of all over 100hp bikes in EU. This initiative did not go throught as such, but lead to the ban in France - that, to my knowledge, has later been dropped also there.

From emissions point of view, it's actually the smaller bikes that now have problems. Honda and Yamaha already announced, that they will not make new, compliant 50cc bikes for EU markets anymore. Big bikes yes, as they are easier = within reasonable costs to make compliant.

Indeed, in Italy since the "microcars" have been on sale, no one has bought almost 50 cc

We have this deer that keeps coming into our yard, eating our vegetables and leaving behind piles of scat. I can appreciate deer for being the beautiful animals they are, but I have a couple of ideas for keeping them away from our vegetables. They both involve just making our yard less appealing to deer.

100% this. Since we're getting existential here over (what I think was intended to be harmless) this thread, I'll point out:

People complain about Vespas on here all the time - and a huge % of threads are reporting issues with a Vespa. **In fact this is part of the TC's argument.***

So this idea that "detractors" don't have a voice is misguided IMO. What's really in play is: is it useful to the community, or kinda just flamebait (intentional or not), for someone who either doesn't own any Vespa or the specific model (got some examples of both here) to tell people who actually do that their choice was a bad one? (It's not about those people being unwelcome here - would be disingenuous to say so in my blunt opinion)

I can't see an argument for the answer to that being yes. "Well I know a guy..." to which the MV member who owns the scoot thinks "But I AM 'a guy'".

Nobody is trying to "silence" the "truth" about 300HPEs. Let's not blow this out of proportion

Despite the name calling and ejection, I really love this post. Lots of great points about the GTS (they actually “fit” bigger people, et al), great humor - (e.g. someone pointed out the irony of an argument on Modern Vespa between two posters, neither of whom owns a modern Vespa; another contextual joke about not wanting to own a Harley despite zero test rides; lots of other laughs, too), and some new cultural information (if in Singapore, it’s actually polite to tell someone, “Listen buddy, stop chewing gum here.”). Thanks Modern Vespa!

And I forgot my favorite part - four pages of posts started with the non-reappearing OP, who is basically a confirmed “phantom troll” and whose MO is irregularly starting inflammatory posts and then disappearing. I liken the OP to a person who shows up at a bar, starts a bar brawl by pissing off various factions, and then sneaks out the back when the chairs start flying. I love this place!

No no no...
*cracks knuckles*
Oh we could go full BBS over there... There'd be casualties and mental scarring of witnesses.
But, really... I would say generally the NSM crowd is very different in 2021 than it was 10 years ago. Fuckers have aged well over there.

I’ve often theorized about a non-existent forum feature that I call “ghost realms”. It would allow the mods to put any given user into their own realm, whereby they could read everything in the forum, and post, and do all the normal forum things. Only, unbeknownst
to that user, nobody else could see what they post. This would seem to the ghosted user like everyone was just ignoring them, which is exactly what you want to happen with trolls.

A variation on this would be if you could put multiple people into the same ghost realm, such that they were the only ones who could actually see each others posts. Even better if it’s two users that can’t stand each other (which is more common than you might think) and just let them natter at each other for eternity.

Ah well. If only I had unlimited time to implement such things.

I may be making a mistake by weighing in on this thread, but why not?
I don’t believe a modern, well designed engine built for regular consumer use, should burn oil. I have been fortunate that I’ve never owned a vehicle that consumes any significant amount of oil. Neither my dear departed old S Class Mercedes (at 200K miles) nor my lowly Chevy Sonic turbo (at just over 100K miles) use(d) any between recommended intervals. But I am aware, that even today, car manufacturers claim that using up to a quart every 1000 miles is not indicative of a defect.
I haven’t expected perfection from our Vespas; we didn’t buy them for that reason. We chose them because of the pleasure they bring when riding them and looking at them. And, as one poster here has mentioned, we keep them because they are a better fit for tall riders. I would love to own a modern 300cc Honda or Yamaha, for their performance and reliability, but they aren’t nearly as comfortable over long distances for me, at six foot two.
I appreciate reading about the oil consumption issue and the shorter service intervals on the HPE; that information is important to me as I weigh replacement of my 2009 250 GTS with 22K miles. I know two of my shortcomings are 1) lack of mechanical ability and 2) less than satisfactory habits about things like checking oil level, changing coolant, and obeying service intervals in general.
Given those traits, and that we now live 150 miles from the nearest Vespa dealer, I will decline to buy a new GTS, until either the demise of my present ride forces me to, or Vespa straightens out the problem.
But thanks to the original poster for raising the topic.

I want to be perfectly clear here that nobody is suppressing that kind of information on MV.

I didn't know that calling "friend" was rude and offensive, I swear. Here in Italy it is a sign of trust to start a sentence like this ... A reassurance for a valid argument. But if I have offended anyone, I apologize.
I don't have a Vespa but it's a good product all the same even if I made a different choice, I would never say badly, especially here.

So it would have three Yardsales and six Dans? I want in!

Not “friend” -- specifically “buddy”. While the term has perfectly acceptable connotations in some contexts, it is not an exact synonym for “friend” in American English. When used at the start of a sentence to address someone, such as “Hey, buddy!” it is usually in a decidedly unfriendly context.

Diabolical...what a fiendish mind you have. I love it.

Oh Jess, how I wish you and the others would see me selling a Vespa to someone ... They are better than Danny De Vito in the movie "Matilda".

LOL, it seems this post has become like the old game "Telegraph" when you start a story and pass it down and it changes into something else by the end. LOL...

First off, I do not know or understand what happened along the way that got someone banned or expelled. Maybe I missed something there. I am sorry if my opinion on the new engine in the 300 had anything to with that.

B. R.I.F. Reading is fundamental. Not once did I say that checking your oil often is a problem. I do it all the time. I did say that having to check the oil on a new engine for the reason of excessive oil consumption, similar to a 2 stroke, is totally unacceptable. I stand by that statement. If you cant understand the difference, please don't start a referendum on my personality.

Third. I base my opinion on not only the posts here, but from the recommendations from Piaggio themselves, which have also been posted here. I also base my opinion on personal experience, which I chronicled with my good friends engine experience with his 2020 HPE. No, I don't believe some magic fairy put metal particles in his oil. Yes the services were presumably done at 600 miles but was definitely done at the 800 mile mark when he acquired it. The motor blew at 1200. He is a Vespa fanatic and restoring, fixing up Vespas is his passion. I bought my Primavera 150 from him as a recovered stolen bike.

Finally, I want to thank the admins and creators of this forum. The afore mentioned BBS was the anthesis of what this forum is and stays that way thanx to their work. Not only do they provide a "Clean, safe" environment for the vintage people, but for us all in comparison to the days of old. This little Marble will follow along and follow the rules. I have been around a long time and intend to stay around regardless of what anyone thinks of me, my scooter or my opinion.

Thank you.

Double M, see what you've done? It's quite a skill to drop a post, walk away, and watch it grow into a monster.

I figured you'd washed your hands of MV after the roasting but I'm glad that's not the case.

Thanks for the entertainment and education about the HPE engine.

All bets are off without knowing how the bike was broken in. Could have been 800 miles of the worst kind of abuse. The point is we don't know.

"...verba volant, scripta manent.."

Yes, that is always the problem with 3rd party stories that are passed around (I know a guy......). There is invariably more to the actual situation that you don't hear.

I'm actually firmly of the belief that an engine should be broken in as hard as possible, for several reasons. The most relevant reason here, though, is that if an engine has a defect, I'd rather that it tank itself now instead of later down the road, potentially after the warranty has expired.

for what it's worth, I feel like a vehicle should be able to handle being treated like crap for 600 miles. If it can't, your definition of "crap" might be really extreme (off-roading and sustained racing on a vehicle not built for it), or the vehicle really has a design problem. Then the question becomes: is it a design problem with the MODEL (which is kind of the theme of this thread) or is it "you got a lemon, mate - tough break". Related consideration is how many lemons are needed before the conclusion shifts to "ok, it's actually a MODEL problem"

Hah! Nice.

all I can say is its good to see a totally derailed thread and I wasnt the one responsible for its derailment.

Love it!

(I tried to quote mpfrank's Venn Diagram and it isn't working. Bug?)

I love that Venn diagram almost as much as I love a derailed MV forum thread. And LOL, Atilla, for the reference to “Matilda”. I wish this forum was a real-life bar that I could actually visit.

Not a bug. There’s no actual text in his post, except my quote. And since you can’t quote quoted text, the result is empty.

Thanks everyone for the fantastic explaination.

Everyday, I can learn something new whenever I flip onto this site

U guys are really informative.

I always tell my gang back home to come here for reliable info on anything vespa.

Here we have thousands of users of a product giving us real time usage update. Although some may be exaggerated, at least it details some negative experience users have.

Maybe actual failure rate may still be in the 0.3-0.5% range, but we cannot expect a 100% failure free product. And what potential users may face (eg HPE issues)

(I do suspect HPE issue is slightly more severe than expected, otherwise Robot wouldn't have done a video on it)

Thanks again.....ermmm......my friends here 😊

So, if you reconsider the GTS, I’m selling my 2015 GTS 300 (15,000 miles) this summer, and you are pretty close to me. I’m just waiting to break in my 2018 GTS 300 and do the 600 mile oil change… I already did an oil change (at 3 miles) when I bought the 2018 in March. I’m not Matilda’s dad: The 2015 consumes oil (but I drive it relatively hard) and it may need a water pump - I’ve got coolant coming out of the weep hole, despite regular (every 2 years) coolant changes.

And I do agree with you - Ideally, modern engines should not need oil added and water pumps ought to last more than 15,000 miles… But the GTS fits me (I’m 6’2”), looks amazing, and will keep up with traffic in my area (whereas a 150cc would not).

Anyway, how was your friend’s blown engine resolved?

So…what brand of oil should I run in my HPE for the 1199 miles it stays together? Is there a brand of oil that could get me to 1201 miles?

Since you go through so much of it, it makes sense to use the cheapest you can find.

I had a car like that once. Every time you stopped for gas you put a quart in. Then just had to do a filter every 6mo

Very convenient.

But the answer is, and will always be, rotella.

Chevy Vega? They went through oil like that.
There are serious issues with longevity of the HPE engine, if the members of the German Vespa forum are to be believed. 12-18% is probably closer to the truth than .03-.05. Piaggio is aware of what they are, if one of the biggest Piaggio parts distributors in Italy is somehow privy to that sort of information. The biggest problem for them, as I understand it, is that the fairly simple fix available now removes more than a few horsepower. Not an easy sell to remove HP and leave you with just E.
Remember that most of the people who have excellent luck with the engine here are older and don't put a lot of miles on their bikes. It's the guys who jump on the thing everyday and race into the city that are having problems. 96% of all Ford Windstars had transmission problems. 4% of owners have no idea what the fuss was about.

Leaving aside the Vespa as a subject and making a general speech in order not to generate controversy, the principle is that if you take an engine to be (for example) a 250 up to 270 cc and knowing that you can't go higher, you squeeze it for more power. you will imagine that the bucket is overflowing somewhere. We have historical examples in Italy ... The Aermacchi 175 cc brought to 250 cc and then to 350 cc on the same engine base that had serious problems in this latest upgrade. On the contrary, Ducati designs its single-cylinder, single-shaft, bevel-geared engine to be able to support upgrades from 100cc up to 450cc. Now, let's say that the anti-pollution regulations cause you to lose power due to the increasingly efficient catalysts that close the exhaust and work on the lambda probe, the engine will heat up more, the coolant will be more stressed while the circuit remains identical and the same thing happens with the circuit. of lubrication. Solution: Change the oil and coolant first.
But a partial solution ... On the other hand, I take for example those engines that immediately carry out maintenance at short intervals because the designer knows that at that distance the oil will be degraded and consumed. Take mine as an example that has to change oil every 2500 miles (900 grams) and change the coolant every three years. :?

And yours doesn't have an oil filter either. What is different about the Piaggio engine from most others is that Piaggio came up with the air cooled Leader engine in the late 90s, (even then it was underpowered compared to other scooter motors), and kept sticking parts on it until they got to the HPE. There are few commonalities between the Yamaha 125 and 300 cc engines, but the 125 typhoon and 300 hpe engines share similar drivetrains and overall dimensions. Basically, Piaggio has tried to strengthen components designed for an air cooled 125 to handle the power put out by the HPE, with varying degrees of success.

But everything, even upgrades have a limit ... and what the heck...