Modern Vespa

nah some POS dodge. but the all the fords I had were the same. only owned a handful of Chevys and they were all shit too. the Porsche leaks more than it burns, which, to be honest is kind of a blessing with the mileage. just needs a diaper. I like my floors CLEAN

I have but two outliers: 68 chevy 108 sport van that never, ever leaked a drop and started and ran and would tow anything I asked it to. and a POS 65 dart slant six that I windowed the block on and never put anything in the hole-- pulled the rod and piston, threw the bearing caps on the big end with a hose clamp, adios'd the pushrods and lifters. it ran funny, but it always started, it never leaked and it never ate oil.

but the rest of my junk ass junk. I could write a book on.

exactly this. the leader 125/150 motor, you can just drop a 200 cylinder on. add the corresponding pump housing, figure out the pump drive (it's obvious), grab a head and sort some exhaust and you're set.

at least with the quasar series, they developed a little more. but that's still not by any means leaps and bounds into the future. it's basically UJM level of water pump housing has the oil bath stator contained therein. yeah. okay. but we still have an oil filter along with an oil strainer and full synthetic motor oil (cuz no wet clutch) sorta deal.

are they good, sure. could they do better? absolutely.

If you switch to 15-50, your oil consumption will go down. If you run the piss out of any big single, it will use oil. I had a Klr650 that was fine until my brother in law changed the oil and used 10-30 weight. I got on it and headed south. It started to knock right before the Pemex next to Mama Espinozas in El Rosario. It was down to about half a cup. I topped it off and the thing still ran. Not well or quietly, but it made it all the way back to Ventura and still ran when I sold it.

What if they improve the cooling system? Would it affect oil consumption?

well, duh... it's a KLR650

most people want a tank during a zombie apocalypse. I want a KLR650

If you want a tough tank like a T 34 you have to get an XT 500.

tough bike. short run.

if I'm stuck at the ass end of hard luck via BFE I wanna know that I can either find parts or bodge something together. the KLR is that bike. it's not fast. it's not sexy. but it makes it happen.

but maybe the XT350... a little more universal. more parts available.

I agree.

one of many things. wine, women, 2-strokes, good rides, cheese and bread!

Yet we are not getting the issues you speak of! The highest mileage HPE that I've seen in my area at my dealers is now over 16,000 miles on the clock. No issues experienced. The bike has been out 2.5 years over here and there are many with near similar miles on the clock. No intrinsic issues being reported. It's the UK number 1 midrange scooter, or near to it. I live next to a Piaggio "Super" dealer who supplies other dealers and the public. I know the techs really well. They are not reporting any significant problems. Yes the HPE is using more oil than the euro3/4 bikes, but it's not a great deal more from what owners are reporting and totally expected from this type of engine. It's all pretty much the same as the euro3/4 bikes in terms of reliability so far as reported by the dealers and that's actually a good thing as the GTS bikes are brilliantly reliable.

So can you tell me what the issues are? I don't mean what someone has said they had a problem with, but what the factory and the trade are saying? The trade over here seems to disagree with you. Hard evidence is what is needed and that seems to be lacking. We can all say we know someone who had this or that go wrong. Failures happen to all makes of bikes and cars. But actually intrinsic failures with engines or vehicles of any kind are rare these days. Don't forget that the GTS250 suffered a few piston and cylinder failures during the first few months of release way back in the day but were fixed quickly and the production processes that caused the issue (tooling) was traced and fixed. Folks on forums made it sound as if it was a widespread issue all over the world. It wasn't! Kinda feeling like this is a repeat of BS.

Long time ago I learned a bit of German language...nowadays I have serious troubles of catching anything from the spoken language, but can still read a bit.

I browsed the German vespaforum.de to see what they have to say about HPE.
... and the discussion was pretty much like in this thread

On the red corner , one author claimed his HPE Vespa drank 250ml oil per 1000 km, that's about 0,066US gallons per 621 miles.

On the blue corner, some posted about new HPEs with 1500-2500 kms (~ 900 - 1500 mls) without any notable consumption.

One post claimed having a 12/2018 HPE with 10 000km (~6200 mls) service done at 2020, after which he had ridden 1800km ( 1100 mls) with oil still at the top level.

So....go figure

It's as I reported ... No problem here at the dealership.

My parents gave me my first car. Gave because they didn't want it anymore. It had overheated, needed valve work and my Dad "knew a guy".

I give you the 1978 Plymouth Sapporo :



2.6l Mitsubishi with a five speed. By the time I got it it was check the gas and fill up the oil. Nobody behind me had to worry about mosquitos, though.

Thanks, Dad.

Shit, if I was allowed that consumption of vodka per mile I’d be delighted!

That thing is rad and I’d rock it right now!

Be thankful that your dad didn’t encourage you to buy a very small car with a giant motor and inadequate brakes…

Looks a little like a Chrysler LeBaron.. in a bad way

I talked to a guy who had dropped a 360 police interceptor in one. From what he said the bell housing on the transmission was the same as the V8. His words, not mine. Looked a lot like this one :





This was on the late '70s Dodge Challenger platform.

It was a great car before it wasn't. 75mph on the highway was nice and smooth. And factory 8-track. Sounds like a story there.

My next car was a '75 Beetle with that awful AFC fuel injection. Another car that ran great until it didn't.

We were a poor family, my father had an old Fiat 127 and the family car was a small old two-cylinder Fiat 500 L ...
Here, that Fiat 500 was my first car and to go to work in the summer my brother lent me his Vespa PX 125 bought used with the money from the summer jobs. When my brother moved to a steady job he sold it to me and I too could afford a car but small and inexpensive so I bought an Innocenti Mini 90 SL with Austin Leyland engine ... basically the Mini Minor with square body produced under license in Italy.
Engine block in cast iron and 950 cc engine but I never sold the Vespa, after the accident it had become an "espa" ... the Ve was crushed against a truck.

Love it - If I had one now I'd paint it black and airbrush flames on the front of the hood like a 90s hotwheels car. That would spice it up!

My 2002 Jetta drinks and leaks oil from the factory. It's pretty sweet. Built like a tank though and we love it

I had an '89, '91 and '97 Jetta. Loved every one of them. No oil issues, but that last one was the III series ... I believe yours is a IV. I DID have a '99 Passat with the 20v turbo. Really liked it.

My understanding from the mechanic is the early IV's had an assembly/design flaw in the base 2.0 engine that lead to unusually high oil consumption. But we bought it used outside of any kind of "hey!" period - it's fine, the car is now super high mileage and still rolling and solid. So - is it wasting oil? Yes. But it's well well well past the "it's a lemon? It's gonna blow?" phase. I think it'll keep rolling long until we're sick of it.

My friend has started another GTS300 project and the one with the blown motor is just a paperweight at the moment.

That is very cool of you to make the offer. I actually have other reasons to prefer the 150 over the 300 that are personal. The place where I live has a very limited entrance to where my Vespa has to live and the smaller, narrower body really helps get in and out. The other reason is harder to talk about. I am getting older. I am only 60, but I am a Heart Attack Survivor and a Diabetic. I no longer can toss around a heavier bike. It was hard just to move it around the driveway. If it wasn't running I would need help to get it in the alleyway. That is why I got rid of my Kymco aka the Kymcow (420lbs).

I have to however disagree (no surprise) with the "keeping Up with Traffic part" I Live on Long Island, near NYC and every road is a racetrack. I have seen 68MPH on the speedo. Yes I know they are not accurate, but it seems traffic is having to keep up with me a lot times. This thing is fast! I only see an "estimated" 15mph or so difference between the 150 and the 300. Also as an "older" guy, I prefer the less frantic rides anyway, LOL.

BTW, I have ridden the 300 and loved it. The longest ride I ever took on a Scooter was on a friend's 300. It felt a little top heavy compared to the et4 I was riding at the time, but that was to be expected. I found it do be a dream to ride and that is what gave me the bug to get one. Unfortunately other priorities in life came up and that plan went out the window.

I devised a plan to raise money to buy this Primavera 150, because it was too good a deal to pass up. (I am sure some negatoid is chomping at the keyboard to say "If it sounds too good to be true, it is") Anyways it and this thread is all about "different strokes for different folks". That difference is not always based on figures, facts and numbers it is also based on your feelings. A Scooter enhances those feelings. As Scooter riders, this should be known to us all... Have a good weekend and start another thread! LOL

I notice David (feb31st) rode a '20 HPE on the recent Cannonball and finished 9th overall. Might ask him how his HPE performed under those conditions. He obviously finished but it would be interesting to hear what he would say about maintenance needs, oil use, or parts failures.

Any machine (and RIDER) that survived that a$$ kicking route is a Winner. Period.

He said he would post a ride report. Give him a little time.

Okay, that's one.
Finding someone who's scooter has not blown up in 16K miles probably isn't hard. There are people, or maybe the correct word is person, who bought internet Chinese scooters and share that experience.
An HPE grenaded during the Cannonball in spectacular fashion. Very low miles. Just out of warranty. But that doesn't mean every single one of them is going to do the same thing.

I'm up to 16000km/10000miles on my Supertech and going like a champ

TBH it hard to find any issues with the HPE's over here. After 2.5years in the market place I suspecet we'd know if the HPE was a lemon. It's not! We have many bikes with higher mileages on them than you guys I'm sure because we got them sooner than you did. In Germany, there are few issues from what I can see. We all know about the faulty brakes issue and the recall regarding that, and some minor engine issues from the early batch of bikes that came over due to production tooling issues. No different to the earlier GTS bikes in that respect, as with any new engines. No doubt someone has had a problem or two but the engines seem fine over here with no intrinsic design or component issues. Oil use is not a problem, even though it's higher than on the earlier bikes. I suspect this is probably the issue for any engines you hear about that grenade. Owners are notorious for not checking their oil and coolant.

Lemon?

Hi Attila,

"A lemon" is what we call something (in the U.S.), generally mechanical, that is defective from the beginning and can't be fixed in a reasonable time. There are laws in some places that require manufacturers to buy back products that they aren't able to repair. These laws are called "lemon laws".

I have a 2020 300 HPE with 8,000 miles. If you are riding back roads it seems to use NO oil.
Get out on the highway at high speed 70+ and it will be low before 1000 miles are on the odometer.
I did a few long hard runs and it was half way down on the dipstick xx|xx at a 500 mile check.

Oh and getting ready to do the first belt change, so they will last 8,000 miles. Well 7,952 miles to be exact.

Doesn't that sound a bit like oil consumption on the MP3 500? Does some additional oil end up in the air filter under those conditions.

Have I mentioned that my BMW R1200R uses an excessive amount of oil? Yeah.

My dad didn't encourage me, but my second car was a '71 Pinto that I modified with a small block V8, a built C4 transmission, and a shortened Ford 9" rear end. Way to much go-power for 4-wheel drum brakes. They didn't even have power assist.

Hey, who's that hippie leaning on your car?

Damn dirty hippies.

Look, Martha, It's a hippy! Get the Kodak!

I have ridden a Vespa GT at least 15,000 times and I know that it is perfect for me.

Bill

Thats not a hippie, he's got shoes on.