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Jackp wrote:
What I don’t understand is some saying not to use the sidestand. I have a 2018 Gts and have been using the sidestand since day one and have never had issues.
There have been many incidents of sidestands on modern Vespas unintentionally retracting, dumping the bike on the ground. There are a variety of reasons -- the bike rolls forward, or strong wind pushes the bike from the side just enough to retract the stand. In some cases, it just sank into hot asphalt or loose soil. In all cases, body damage on a Vespa is difficult and expensive to repair.

A single data point doesn't really prove much. Repeated incidents over many years and many different members is definitely indicative of a persistent problem.
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jess wrote:
There have been many incidents of sidestands on modern Vespas unintentionally retracting, dumping the bike on the ground. There are a variety of reasons -- the bike rolls forward, or strong wind pushes the bike from the side just enough to retract the stand. In some cases, it just sank into hot asphalt or loose soil. In all cases, body damage on a Vespa is difficult and expensive to repair.

Your single data point doesn't really prove much.
Agreed, the old side-stands were dangerous IMHO. The later ones, that lock in place are fine, together with their kill-switch cutout.

They may appear to be the same - but they are different animals! No need to knock the newer Vespa ones.

Other Piaggio bikes have had similar sidestands as long as I've owned examples, since the late '80s. Only the X9s had problems, due to poor switch design - not a fault of the stand itself.
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jimc wrote:
Agreed, the old side-stands were dangerous IMHO. The later ones, that lock in place are fine, together with their kill-switch cutout.
Do the new ones actually disengage the engine when down?
jimc wrote:
Other Piaggio bikes have had similar sidestands as long as I've owned examples, since the late '80s. Only the X9s had problems, due to poor switch design - not a fault of the stand itself.
Yes. LOTS of motorcycles have perfectly adequate side stands. The Vespa one has, at least historically, been notoriously un-adequate.
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Yes my 2018 disengages the engine when down.
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Jackp wrote:
Yes my 2018 disengages the engine when down.
If it disengages the engine and locks down in place (rather than retracts automatically) then it is probably reasonably safe. Apart from sinking into hot asphalt, anyway.
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ScooterWest still sells a bunch of different sidestands, and I can guarantee that most of them are decidedly not safe for use on a modern Vespa. They also have this disclaimer:
Quote:
**Disclaimer** Sidestands are less stable than centerstands. The Vespa sidestands don't lock in the down position. You also need to make sure your scooter is parked on stable and flat ground when the side stand is in use. When used with common sense they are very handy to have.
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The reason some sidestands have no 'lock' is that in Europe it's illegal to have a sidestand that locks in position without it also having a safety cut-out. So aftermarket ones tend not to have the 'lock'.
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jimc wrote:
The reason some sidestands have no 'lock' is that in Europe it's illegal to have a sidestand that locks in position without it also having a safety cut-out. So aftermarket ones tend not to have the 'lock'.
Agreed this is the main reason why the Vespa sidestands are so awful -- they lack the engine cut-out, and so must auto-retract to be legal. But that's still the vast majority of aftermarket Vespa sidestands. While I see a cut-out switch available on the ScooterWest site, I don't see any that come with the cut-out switch as standard.
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Yes, but now in Europe all vehicles equipped with a standard side stand also have the safety switch.
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Attila wrote:
Yes, but now in Europe all vehicles equipped with a standard side stand also have the safety switch.
Do any Vespas in Europe come equipped with a sidestand from the factory? Or anywhere else, for that matter?
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My interest has been piqued. Nerd emoticon If I could get a locking sidestand with cutoff abilities... Research must be done!
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jess wrote:
Do any Vespas in Europe come equipped with a sidestand from the factory? Or anywhere else, for that matter?
AFAIK, all Vespas in the EU (+UK back then) had a side stand (no lock) until Piaggio decided to add the locking version plus switch.
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jess wrote:
Do any Vespas in Europe come equipped with a sidestand from the factory? Or anywhere else, for that matter?
I remind you that I help out at the Piaggio dealership here in Latina and yes, the latest Vespas have it.
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Attila wrote:
I remind you that I help out at the Piaggio dealership here in Latina and yes, the latest Vespas have it.
Good to know.

I stand by my assessment of the ones added-on after the fact.
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UTC quote
Hack to lock sidestand ? I think that in certain situations the sidestand may be useful

Uneven pavement, on the shoulder of the road, gravel, fully loaded to get to the centerstgand. etc.

I am thinking of getting a sidestand buzzeti after market, and doing this hack so it will lock. If it doesn't work the sidestand is of no use for me.


⚠️ Last edited by Spirovision on UTC; edited 1 time
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It is useful when you have to get off the scooter and the ground you are on is uneven or slippery, it supports you for the time in which after getting off the side of the side stand you then put the vehicle "always" on the center stand.
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Congrats! That's a gorgeous scoot
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Spirovision wrote:
Hack to lock sidestand ? I think that in certain situations the sidestand may be useful

Uneven pavement, on the shoulder of the road, gravel, fully loaded to get to the centerstgand. etc.

I am thinking of getting a sidestand buzzeti after market, and doing this hack so it will lock. If it doesn't work the sidestand is of no use for me.
Locking is the specific feature that makes the vast majority of motorcycle sidestands work acceptably. But there's a catch. A locking sidestand without an engine cut-out switch is an even bigger risk. If you get on the bike with the sidestand down, start it up, and ride away, you'll be in for an unpleasant surprise on your first turn on that side.

Hence, the reason for the cut-out switch.
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What an attractive color! Fell in love the moment I saw Robots review.
Best of luck and ride safe! Scooter emoticon
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Perhaps the colour is not related to the skin of the orange but the inside...

In which case is pretty good...
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jess wrote:
Locking is the specific feature that makes the vast majority of motorcycle sidestands work acceptably. But there's a catch. A locking sidestand without an engine cut-out switch is an even bigger risk. If you get on the bike with the sidestand down, start it up, and ride away, you'll be in for an unpleasant surprise on your first turn on that side.

Hence, the reason for the cut-out switch.
Remember the Honda of the '70s? Side stand open and without safety switch ... I remember when they arrived at the bar with those bikes and made themselves beautiful by putting on the side stand, then I waited for them to leave again ... A third of them forgot it open and ... Crash ! Facepalm emoticon
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Puzzling. I rode Honda 90,160,305,350 and 750 with only the sidestand. I rode BSA, Triumph, Ducati, BMW, Zundapp, Puch, Suzuki, Harley, Kawasaki and Yamaha with same type of stand.
Never had seen or met anyone doing that.
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I got to see the Implusive Orange up close on Cannonball. DJ Tiny wrecked his first Vespa Grey) on Day 1, and it was unable to be repaired in the hotel parking lot in VT. Handlebars were badly bent and the rear brake caliper got buggered.

So while everyone left on the Cannonball route on Day 2, Tiny made a beeline for the closest Vespa Dealer, bought an Orange one off the floor and joined back in on Day 3. And made it to the finish.

That Orange color is indeed a looker in person and changes slightly with ambient light.

Sidestand note - I modified my aftermarket sidestand on my 2008 GTS exactly as described in the video to stay down and never had any issue with it. I did not use it often, but proved to be very useful on uneven ground. Deployed carefully in certain situations, it can be a very good option to have. I keep a steel junction box cover on the bike to place under the sidetstand in case I encounter soft ground.
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UTC quote
Guzzi Gal wrote:
Unless you're standing right next to your scoot, don't use it. I call it the 'suicide stand'.
Why is this? Does the side stand fail?

Or is it a user error that occurs?

And I’m often accused of being color blind by my wife. I thought it was red too.

CONGRATS on your shiny new ride!!
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UTC quote
jess wrote:
Locking is the specific feature that makes the vast majority of motorcycle sidestands work acceptably. But there's a catch. A locking sidestand without an engine cut-out switch is an even bigger risk. If you get on the bike with the sidestand down, start it up, and ride away, you'll be in for an unpleasant surprise on your first turn on that side.

Hence, the reason for the cut-out switch.
Aha - ok I see
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gopam wrote:
Why is this? Does the side stand fail?

Or is it a user error that occurs?

And I’m often accused of being color blind by my wife. I thought it was red too.
CONGRATS on your shiny new ride!!
The old-style side stands auto-retract if the scooter is shifted. When this occurs, much crying and swearing ensues.

A Vespa parked near mine had the stand retract dumping it onto mine. I have a nice dent where the offender's bar-end smacked my Gigi. I slapped a sticker on it.
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UTC quote
I don't trust the sidestand on my HPE, unless I'm just running inside or need to e.g. put down a coffee so I have both hands to park properly. (Yes, sometimes I'll ride a few blocks with something in my left hand.)

It does kill the engine when down. I don't know what a locking sidestand is like, but I'm reasonably sure this isn't one.
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mayorofnow wrote:
It does kill the engine when down. I don't know what a locking sidestand is like, but I'm reasonably sure this isn't one.
A locking sidestand (it's a bit of a misnomer, actually) is simply one that doesn't automatically retract when you lift the scooter off the sidestand. It still has a spring action, but the spring only kicks in when you partially retract it with your foot.

The kind of sidestand I'm railing against here (and to be fair, I've been railing against Vespa sidestands for about 15 years now, and people still won't fucking listen) is the kind that springs closed as soon as you lift the bike off the stand even a little bit.
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UTC quote
Oh, then I guess I do have a locking sidestand, and only don't trust it for obvious reasons in a windy city famous for its inclines.
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UTC quote
mayorofnow wrote:
Oh, then I guess I do have a locking sidestand, and only don't trust it for obvious reasons in a windy city famous for its inclines.
Locking + engine cut out makes for what is probably an acceptable risk.
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UTC quote
I totally understand the side stand shaming.

Right now for me it serves as a practical device. I cannot engage the center stand with my left leg and my right leg is messed up. Only in that case I find the center stand useful. And I don't fiddle with the handlebar. I just put it on the side stand handlebars aligned with the body.
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Let's say that the fundamental problem is that the side stand when it is too short cannot have a sufficient angle to keep the scooter safely balanced, which is why when you open it even if it is blocked by a feeling of instability.
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howdy from another San Diegan!
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UTC quote
jess wrote:
Locking + engine cut out makes for what is probably an acceptable risk.
Probably mentioned, but the engine cutoff is super important with CVT bikes. If your engine idles fast enough to turn the back wheel and you're on the side stand, it could be enough for the bike to push itself over. Er ... so I've heard.

I hate the side stand on the Stella, but on a shifty neutral is neutral. Still hate it.
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UTC quote
to be honest, I'd like it if modern vespas had the same type of stand as the NSMs

I've never been a lover of the back wheel stuck up in the air
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fleece wrote:
I've never been a lover of the back wheel stuck up in the air
Automatic comes at a price.
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UTC quote
Attila wrote:
Let's say that the fundamental problem is that the side stand when it is too short cannot have a sufficient angle to keep the scooter safely balanced, which is why when you open it even if it is blocked by a feeling of instability.
I agree with this observation. I have owned a number of motorcycles during my riding career as well as 9 or 10 scooters. I have had some heavy motorcycles which feel quite secure on their sidestand. The longer sidestand and the longer wheelbase plus greater weight seems to make them well planted and stable when on their sidestand. The short sidestand on the Vespa and similar scooters does not feel very stable to me - locking design and cut out arrangement not withstanding.
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