Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:08 am

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Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:08 am linkquote
Spotted this yesterday, didn't think it was me.

Now I know it is.

Nothing seems amiss. The liquid feels like engine oil. I checked the oil level, it's fine. I checked the engine compartment and to my untrained eye there is nothing wrong there.

The weird thing to me is the location amidships.

Here is a photo of the leak in relation to the bike. The other photo show where it is coming from. It's leaking from the left side gill holes in the floor.

Clearly I need a visit to the shop. Can I put it off to next week?







Last edited by David Masse on Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:46 pm; edited 2 times in total
Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:20 am

Grumpy Biker
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Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:20 am linkquote
That's a coolant leak. Don't put it off.

-Craig
Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:24 am

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Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:24 am linkquote
Thanks Craig, much appreciated.
Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:24 am

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Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:24 am linkquote
Yep. Look at the green coolant drops on the underside.
Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:34 am

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Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:34 am linkquote
Yup, coolant. Your scoot isn't feeling well.
Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:18 pm

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Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:18 pm linkquote
Being color blind on the red-green spectrum clearly makes diagnosis more difficult for me. The one helpful hint I failed to mention was that the leaking liquid was green. Because I was clueless to the color.

Thanks guys!
Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:19 pm

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Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:19 pm linkquote
Hopefully just a hose clamp replacement.
Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:39 pm

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Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:39 pm linkquote
jimc wrote:
Hopefully just a hose clamp replacement.
Jim, from your lips to G-d's ears (a phrase a learned from Jewish culture, courtesy of my darling wife and my in-laws)!

[hyphen inserted in the Allmighty's name as a token appreciation for Trepp (and others here)].
Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:43 pm

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Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:43 pm linkquote
The temperature gauge stays in the normal range.

My plan is to ride home avoiding the expressway and sparing the horses.

Once I get there I'll top up the coolant. On the weekend I'll open it up with a prayer that Jimc's diagnosis is on the money. Otherwise I'll be placing an order with ScooterWest.

Thanks again guys.

What would we do without us?
Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:34 pm

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Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:34 pm linkquote
I'd put my money on Jimc's diagnosis of a hose clamp. It could be a hose, but usually its a clamp that has loosened up. It's likely to be where the hose attaches to the radiator. It just runs down the inside of the scooter body until it finds a hole to run out. Make sure you wipe it up real well (that means you need to remove the floor board). But it's easy to remove the floorboard once the glove box is removed.

-Craig
Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:33 pm

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Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:33 pm linkquote
caschnd1 wrote:
I'd put my money on Jimc's diagnosis of a hose clamp. It could be a hose, but usually its a clamp that has loosened up. It's likely to be where the hose attaches to the radiator. It just runs down the inside of the scooter body until it finds a hole to run out. Make sure you wipe it up real well (that means you need to remove the floor board). But it's easy to remove the floorboard once the glove box is removed.

-Craig
Thanks Craig.

I ended up taking the expressway home, kept it down to ~100kmh and kept an eye on the gauge. No issues. Tomorrow I'll open her up and let you know what I find.

One more thing. I couldn't quite understand why it leaks at the office, but not at home. It's because at home it's on the side stand at the office on the centre stand. At home the coolant pools in the chassis with no exit due the lean. One more mystery solved.
Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:33 am

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Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:33 am linkquote
Going through the same thing as you, David with my 2007 GTS. I had the same mess to clean up and found that it was my water pump that went bad. I had that replaced and a couple weeks later started smelling that burning radiator fluid smell again, but no pool of fluid under the bike. Been riding only a few miles from home to figure things out. Went to fuel up yesterday and notice the temp bars flashing about a half block from the gas station. I cut the engine and rolled in and swoosh! all my radiator fluid dropped with a sizzling sound and smoke coming from under the pet carrier. Looks like a gasket has gone bad?

Got it loaded up and trailered to the shop. I just hope I haven't done any major damage to my engine. This bike has been flawless until recently-this past year seems to be one mishap after another. Frustrating, but I keep telling myself it's a 2007 with 24,000 miles...

Good luck with your diagnosis-just keep an eye and a nose close to it!
Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:53 am

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Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:53 am linkquote
Manifold?
Mine had a similar leak, the manifold under the floor on the opposite side of the tunnel right next to the battery, a plastic item which connects 3 coolant hoses. There was a brass insert into that plastic manifold, and the plastic around it cracked, allowing coolant to leak. The replacement piece was different, and the brass insert had been deleted.
Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:58 am

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Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:58 am linkquote
davidmasse wrote:
The temperature gauge stays in the normal range.

My plan is to ride home avoiding the expressway and sparing the horses.

Once I get there I'll top up the coolant. On the weekend I'll open it up with a prayer that Jimc's diagnosis is on the money. Otherwise I'll be placing an order with ScooterWest.

Thanks again guys.

What would we do without us?
If its a hose clamp, you can get one at any hardware store or auto parts house.
Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:24 am

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Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:24 am linkquote
acejones wrote:
davidmasse wrote:
The temperature gauge stays in the normal range.

My plan is to ride home avoiding the expressway and sparing the horses.

Once I get there I'll top up the coolant. On the weekend I'll open it up with a prayer that Jimc's diagnosis is on the money. Otherwise I'll be placing an order with ScooterWest.

Thanks again guys.

What would we do without us?
If its a hose clamp, you can get one at any hardware store or auto parts house.
If its a hose clamp get a good one....german car type...Gemi or equivalent. (Rolled edges, overlapping junction, wont cut into the rubber) my local German car repair joint sells them to me.
Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:40 am

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Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:40 am linkquote
This is why I recommend the German clamps:

Rolled edges dont cut into your hoses
Screw lanes arent punched through- also dont cut into hoses
Excellent fastener

This one is made by "Gemi"



Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:19 am

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Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:19 am linkquote
David, I have a similar leak on Vanessa, the blue GT200 that I am babysitting for my friend Leslie while she lives in Italy for the next couple of years. It started a month or so ago and leaves a similar pool.

I crawled under her and looked from above but can't pinpoint the source. Boris is going to look at her as soon as I can get her there, but I have been busy fixing Rocket and working.

I don't ride her much, only a few short rides since noticing the leak, but I monitored the coolant level and it remains on full. I am also hoping it is just a hose or clamp. I had a similar, but much bigger leak on Rocket last year that was a poorly routed hose that got a hole worn into it from rubbing against a body part. Boris fixed that one and rerouted the hose.
Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:05 pm

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Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:05 pm linkquote
WLeuthold wrote:
David, I have a similar leak on Vanessa, the blue GT200 that I am babysitting for my friend Leslie while she lives in Italy for the next couple of years. It started a month or so ago and leaves a similar pool.

I crawled under her and looked from above but can't pinpoint the source. Boris is going to look at her as soon as I can get her there, but I have been busy fixing Rocket and working.

I don't ride her much, only a few short rides since noticing the leak, but I monitored the coolant level and it remains on full. I am also hoping it is just a hose or clamp. I had a similar, but much bigger leak on Rocket last year that was a poorly routed hose that got a hole worn into it from rubbing against a body part. Boris fixed that one and rerouted the hose.
Bill I started to open things up this morning. I managed to get the glove box loose but it's still tethered by the emergency seat release cable plus all my doodads on the left kneepad (dual outlets, Heattroller). Some of that is a little finnicky, so I'll continue disassembly tomorrow. I also think that I won't be able to remove the floorboards without removing the floor rack and battery cover.

The coolant level turned out to be fine, so very little actually leaked. Oddly, there was no leakage today on the centre stand. There goes my side stand theory about leakage pooling in the floor due to the lean. Why it would leak at the office but not at home remains a mystery.

Everything seems shipshape at the left radiator. That points to a leak at the joint in the floor.

By tomorrow afternoon I should be able to report more. Based on other comments, this thread may turn out to be useful.

Good night from the Great White North!
Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:11 pm

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Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:11 pm linkquote
gogogordy wrote:
This is why I recommend the German clamps:

Rolled edges dont cut into your hoses
Screw lanes arent punched through- also dont cut into hoses
Excellent fastener

This one is made by "Gemi"



That's great advice. With a little luck Canadian Tire may have some. Otherwise I'll steal one from my wife's Beemer.
Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:07 pm

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Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:07 pm linkquote
Found it!
Good news! Tiny leak, should be easy to fix. Now to find a pair of German hose clamps.



Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:38 pm

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Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:38 pm linkquote
Re: Found it!
davidmasse wrote:
Good news! Tiny leak, should be easy to fix. Now to find a pair of German hose clamps.
Sweet! Minimal grief quotient.

Cant vouch for but: http://www.germanautoparts.com/Mercedes/1958/3171/4/11573/0
Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:48 pm

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Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:48 pm linkquote
Good work, David. You have just moved yourself to the Master Mechanic level. No problem too big.
Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:53 pm

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Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:53 pm linkquote
Dave, you can usually find those clamps at a good boat supply store.
Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:56 pm

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Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:56 pm linkquote
They might be sold as 'Jubilee' clips (the original worm-gear hose clamps). As good as the German ones, which are a direct copy now the patent's run out.
Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:09 pm

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Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:09 pm linkquote
You can tell that this joint has been worked on because the clamp on the left is not OEM. The bike is second hand so the repair was done when the bike was with the first owner.

The leak seems to be from the left non OEM clamp.

I have the following questions.

The hose on the right engine side of the joint isn't flush with fitting. Is that normal?

Should I disassemble the joint and refit with new clamps?

If so, how do you release the OEM clamp?

Can I just open the joint and let the coolant drain from the joint?

What if I pinch the hose off on either side of the joint to minimize coolant loss during the repair?
Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:18 pm

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Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:18 pm linkquote
You can release the clamp when the bike si cold with minimal if not zero loss of fluid. You can unwind a worm-type clamp completely, wrap it around, re-introduce the worm's head to its tail, and do up.

No need for any mess at all.
Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:42 pm

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Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:42 pm linkquote
jimc wrote:
You can release the clamp when the bike si cold with minimal if not zero loss of fluid. You can unwind a worm-type clamp completely, wrap it around, re-introduce the worm's head to its tail, and do up.

No need for any mess at all.
Thanks Jim, that makes perfect sense. How does the OEM clamp release?
Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:59 pm

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Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:59 pm linkquote
David, I use a small flat blade screw driver at the point circled in the photo. Gently pry the clamp to loosen until it will release from the lock tabs above the circled area. Be careful not to pry/twist so much you cut into the hose.

-Craig



Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:39 am

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Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:39 am linkquote
caschnd1 wrote:
David, I use a small flat blade screw driver at the point circled in the photo. Gently pry the clamp to loosen until it will release from the lock tabs above the circled area. Be careful not to pry/twist so much you cut into the hose.

-Craig
OK will do. Thanks Craig.
Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:14 am

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Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:14 am linkquote
Leak licked!
Thanks for all the help guys, it's really, really appreciated.

All's dry under the scoot!



Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:48 am

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Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:48 am linkquote
Leaking GT 200
Can anyone help? I had my shop replace a bad fuel pump in my 2007GT 200. Trucked it home then went for a short ride. Just a few miles out I noticed the Temp Gage was maxed out. Rode home SLOWLY! Never heard the fan. Found a cut in the Radiator Hose about 1" from the Water Pump, Cut the bad piece off and stretched the hose back on the Pump and secured with a new Clamp. Filled the Tank with Fluid. Started it up and only got a few blocks when it stalled out. Was able to coast home. It backfired once but wouldn't start. Parked it and found fluid leaking again, but not from the repaired hose! It seems to be leaking from the lower left side of the engine. What the heck happened? My thanks in advance.





Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:03 pm

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Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:03 pm linkquote
Re: Leaking GT 200
jimbabz wrote:
Can anyone help? I had my shop replace a bad fuel pump in my 2007GT 200. Trucked it home then went for a short ride. Just a few miles out I noticed the Temp Gage was maxed out. Rode home SLOWLY! Never heard the fan. Found a cut in the Radiator Hose about 1" from the Water Pump, Cut the bad piece off and stretched the hose back on the Pump and secured with a new Clamp. Filled the Tank with Fluid. Started it up and only got a few blocks when it stalled out. Was able to coast home. It backfired once but wouldn't start. Parked it and found fluid leaking again, but not from the repaired hose! It seems to be leaking from the lower left side of the engine. What the heck happened? My thanks in advance.
Ugh... that doesn't sound good. When you lose the fluid in a liquid cooled engine, the temperatures rise extremely quickly. You really don't have the time to ride home (even slowly). The cylinder head and cylinder temps are the first to spike. This can lead to cracked/warped heads and/or cracked cylinders. I'd bet that you have a warped head or a crack through a water jacket that is causing your leak. Check the oil and see if it's got coolant mixed with it. Just from what you've described, I think you are looking at a big repair.

-Craig
Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:35 pm

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Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:35 pm linkquote
Thanks Craig.
You are confirming my suspicions. Hope we are both wrong. How would you go about pinpointing the problem, without involving the dealer?



Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:06 pm

Ossessionato
2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2005 Vespa GT (Razzo): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 2009 Yamaha Zuma 125 (Zoom): 2018 Yamaha Xmax (Max),
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 4889
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
 
Ossessionato
2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2005 Vespa GT (Razzo): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 2009 Yamaha Zuma 125 (Zoom): 2018 Yamaha Xmax (Max),
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 4889
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:06 pm linkquote
You might want to start with a compression test.
Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:25 pm

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 41203
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 41203
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:25 pm linkquote
Which hose did you pull? If the one that goes to the left side of the block then you might have compromised the clamp over there.
Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:51 pm

Lurker
Vespa GT 200
Joined: 09 Sep 2014
Posts: 4
Location: NE PA
 
Lurker
Vespa GT 200
Joined: 09 Sep 2014
Posts: 4
Location: NE PA
Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:51 pm linkquote
It was the hose on the right side.
Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:56 pm

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 41203
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 41203
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:56 pm linkquote
I know you pulled on the right side - but where does (or did!) that hose go to? There's no spare rubber along those hoses...
Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:10 pm

Lurker
Vespa GT 200
Joined: 09 Sep 2014
Posts: 4
Location: NE PA
 
Lurker
Vespa GT 200
Joined: 09 Sep 2014
Posts: 4
Location: NE PA
Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:10 pm linkquote
I pulled just behind the right/rear passenger foot peg. Tomorrow I will remove the glove box, skirt cover and know more
⬆️    About 7 years elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:50 am

Hooked
2013 BV350, 2014 GTS , 2016 GTS, 2013 Downtown 300i
Joined: 03 Mar 2020
Posts: 276
Location: Dahlonega, GA
 
Hooked
2013 BV350, 2014 GTS , 2016 GTS, 2013 Downtown 300i
Joined: 03 Mar 2020
Posts: 276
Location: Dahlonega, GA
Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:50 am linkquote
Yes, this is an old topic, but I had the exact same leak and this topic is woefully inadequate on pictures.


The first picture is the whole works... what a 2014 Vespa GTS looks like without the glove box and floorboards.


When I got in, I found that one of the clamps had already been replaced... someone had been in here before. I also discovered TWO leaking clamps on this side, and replaced them both. It also means that the owner might have got rid of this Vespa just for


I also gave one more pic to show ALL the clamps on the right side.... all twelve (12!) of them. Now that I have seen this, I will keep a supply of replacement hose clamps around.

Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:31 am

Addicted
2015 Vespa Primavera 50, 2021 Vespa Sprint 150
Joined: 05 May 2021
Posts: 579
Location: Naples Florida USA
 
Addicted
2015 Vespa Primavera 50, 2021 Vespa Sprint 150
Joined: 05 May 2021
Posts: 579
Location: Naples Florida USA
Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:31 am linkquote
Wow! Liquid cooled engines are complex! Amazing!
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