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Hi I haven’t started it or anything I’m hoping the broken piece of the dipstick isn’t in the engine now, it should be ok? I’m not gonna have to pay like 600 bux on a bike that is 3 months old. Why is that made of plastic and why is it designed this way? The old dipstick was much much more sensible, much more easy. Worried about the oil consumption too, got a low oil light that would flicker on and off for a week now and I’m also worried now I did a lot of damage to the bike. Here’s to hoping they can fish out the dipstick easily
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I am guessing that when you do an oil change the plastic bits will be behind the drain screen or in the filter itself. How big of a piece is missing?
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We've had broken dipsticks before, not sure which thread, but worth a search.

IIRC nothing catastrophic, but could ruin one's day worrying about it....

Flickering oil light is a bit concerning, but no, I doubt that your bike is toast. I somehow managed to lose my dipstick not once, but twice, got down to light flickering, and a couple thousand miles later she runs great. Maybe I've screwed my chances of reaching Bill Leuthold's odometer readings....but even 50k is good enough for me.
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stickyfrog wrote:
I am guessing that when you do an oil change the plastic bits will be behind the drain screen or in the filter itself. How big of a piece is missing?
Just the part that says min/max actually, I think hopefully it broke in one piece
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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Don’t panic. Odds are it will not create any issues - and there are some real gearheads on here that will give you some sound advice.
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The dipstick on the HPE is a pain. I'm no expert, but I would think whatever broke off will be caught in the screen or filter before it can cause any damage. I recently replaced the oil sump on my HPE with one that has a sight glass. This way I'm not messing with the dipstick on a regular basis. So far, I like the sight glass.
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Okay, here's one of the discussions....for peace of mind I'd want it out, but for now it shouldn't be the end of your scooter....

Engine Oil Dipstick broke
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fledermaus wrote:
Okay, here's one of the discussions....for peace of mind I'd want it out, but for now it shouldn't be the end of your scooter....

Engine Oil Dipstick broke
fledermaus to the rescue! I knew this sounded familiar.
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fledermaus wrote:
Okay, here's one of the discussions....for peace of mind I'd want it out, but for now it shouldn't be the end of your scooter....

Engine Oil Dipstick broke
Did they have the HPE in 2015?! I did a new thread cause I thought it was a new model, I know it’s a different dipstick configuration so the concern was that the dipstick was in a new place so perhaps where the fragments end up could be different from the previous models
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Not an HPE… but watch Robot’s video on the sight glass replacement. Great time/excuse to do it. And it isn’t complicated. I’m in the “gotta get it out” camp - just “because”. And I personally wouldn’t enjoy riding it in the meantime. But that’s just me.. it’s still pretty unlikely to hurt the scoot.
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professorcatfacemeowmers wrote:
Did they have the HPE in 2015?! I did a new thread cause I thought it was a new model, I know it’s a different dipstick configuration so the concern was that the dipstick was in a new place so perhaps where the fragments end up could be different from the previous models
BTW, you have a couple solid scooter shops there in Chicago. Right downtown. (Motoworks would be my first call) Give ‘em a call and pick their brains!
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professorcatfacemeowmers wrote:
Did they have the HPE in 2015?! I did a new thread cause I thought it was a new model, I know it’s a different dipstick configuration so the concern was that the dipstick was in a new place so perhaps where the fragments end up could be different from the previous models
No, but I suspect similar concerns.

New thread is fine.
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Retro Scoot wrote:
BTW, you have a couple solid scooter shops there in Chicago. Right downtown. (Motoworks would be my first call) Give ‘em a call and pick their brains!
Already en route there lol. Waiting for the tow
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Shouldn't a broken dipstick be a warranty issue?
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mayorofnow wrote:
Shouldn't a broken dipstick be a warranty issue?
Piaggio would argue that it was "user error". ie that they inserted it wrong.

The HPE dipstick is a lot harder to insert than old GTSs as you have to get it aligned just perfectly. Not particularly good design. Many people make the mistake of using a bit of force.
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steelbytes wrote:
Piaggio would argue that it was "user error". ie that they inserted it wrong.

should be a word for that, something Latin maybe?
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Yes, as the other "broken dipstick" thread is saying, it's best to get it out. In theory the broken bit of dipstick should not get into the oil gallery and cause issues but indeed that's what happened on that Piaggio engine I talk about in the other thread. I remember it well. Still haven't figured out how that happened. The other point is that even if it doesn't get into the high pressure oil gallery it can still get caught up in lots of whirly gig parts and end up causing some grief. Thinking about the camchain and getting lodged in that with potential to cause a really big issue as it tries to derail the chain from the crank or camshaft end. Shouldn't be that hard to get it out but out it must come.

Regarding the flickering oil light. Why didn't you stop and check the oil earlier? This isn't good and may have done some damage. Why would you ride a bike that has the oil pressure light flickering? It's not a "low oil" light. It's a low oil pressure light and no bike must ever be ridden with that light flickering or on at anytime. Sorry, not trying to beat down on you but I'm guessing you misunderstood the oil light function. You are not alone in doing that because other folks have done that too. So don't feel too bad. Just hoping the motor is ok. In reality it probably is since you didn't complain of any knocking or screeching noises. Wishing you the best for this!
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fleece wrote:
should be a word for that, something Latin maybe?
Maybe an ex-girlfriend might know 🤔
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I really can't tell from the picture of the UPS truck, is there something wrong with the dipstick that caused it to crack? Have you checked the oil before?
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there's an oil screen and an oil filter. I wouldn't really worry.

if you're freaked out, besides ordering a new one get an oil pan gasket and blow it apart. not a big deal.
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What about sucking the oil and dipstick piece out? Then you can reuse the oil sans plastic.

Here’s a link for a do it yourself Mityvac. Cheaper than a service visit!

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Stromrider wrote:
Yes, as the other "broken dipstick" thread is saying, it's best to get it out. In theory the broken bit of dipstick should not get into the oil gallery and cause issues but indeed that's what happened on that Piaggio engine I talk about in the other thread. I remember it well. Still haven't figured out how that happened. The other point is that even if it doesn't get into the high pressure oil gallery it can still get caught up in lots of whirly gig parts and end up causing some grief. Thinking about the camchain and getting lodged in that with potential to cause a really big issue as it tries to derail the chain from the crank or camshaft end. Shouldn't be that hard to get it out but out it must come.

Regarding the flickering oil light. Why didn't you stop and check the oil earlier? This isn't good and may have done some damage. Why would you ride a bike that has the oil pressure light flickering? It's not a "low oil" light. It's a low oil pressure light and no bike must ever be ridden with that light flickering or on at anytime. Sorry, not trying to beat down on you but I'm guessing you misunderstood the oil light function. You are not alone in doing that because other folks have done that too. So don't feel too bad. Just hoping the motor is ok. In reality it probably is since you didn't complain of any knocking or screeching noises. Wishing you the best for this!
Oil consumption on these HPEs are much higher than my old bike, and I wasn’t aware that a new bike consumes more oil than the bike I had with 36,000 miles on it: I didn’t have anything crazy going on with it, and I did previously have an oil pressure light malfunction on the 16 year old bike with 36,000 miles on it

Thought oil pressure in general had more to do with how the engine was operating rather than the level of oil in the engine, would have of course pulled over if I knew that, I didn’t hear any grinding or knocking or anything I don’t know if bikes get the tapping noise when the oils super low like a car does, but I’m hoping it’s ok. The oil consumption thing is obnoxious though, for a bike that is designed to be ridden in long stretches, as that is the primary difference between the gts and all the other models, is that it is capable of highway speeds and long operation times, it doesn’t make any sense that my 2006 gts 250 with 4,000 miles on it can drive all the way from New York to chicago in one night in 2016 and not have this problem and a brand new bike with 3,000 miles is basically running out of oil after one trip to St. Louis from chicago
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To be fair, all new bike use more oil until the motor is fully bedded in. That takes around 5k miles on the GTS motors. The HPE is no different and it tells you in the manual to check the oil often. The HPE uses a bit more oil on average than the previous model and that's ok, it seems to settle with most of them after they get a good few thousand miles on the clock. But because they produce more power from basically the same engine design, albeit with a reworked top end, it will use a bit more oil especially if you rag it at highway speeds in the early days. It should settle a bit in time, but we don't actually know how often you are checking the oil and what sort of riding you do and how much oil it is using over what mileage. How you use the bike and how you treated it in the first thousand miles or so can and will make a big difference as to how much oil it uses. Anyway, very good luck with the motor issue.
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Stromrider wrote:
To be fair, all new bike use more oil until the motor is fully bedded in. That takes around 5k miles on the GTS motors. The HPE is no different and it tells you in the manual to check the oil often. The HPE uses a bit more oil on average than the previous model and that's ok, it seems to settle with most of them after they get a good few thousand miles on the clock. But because they produce more power from basically the same engine design, albeit with a reworked top end, it will use a bit more oil especially if you rag it at highway speeds in the early days. It should settle a bit in time, but we don't actually know how often you are checking the oil and what sort of riding you do and how much oil it is using over what mileage. How you use the bike and how you treated it in the first thousand miles or so can and will make a big difference as to how much oil it uses. Anyway, very good luck with the motor issue.
Most rough I was with it was a 600 mile trip at 2500 miles, which could have depleated the oil but it started throwing up oil lights 3 days later, it runs the same as it did before the dipstick problem, it was a hair noisier maybe? But not making Grindy or knocking noises, that light would come on usually at the start of a drive and in general I’m very gentle with the throttle. All it’s done since it’s been back from that drive is just go to and from work on a street that’s fast(55-60) but not highway speeds.

Hoping I didn’t wreck it or anything I think last I saw when I did get the dipstick out was it was exactly at minimum so I’m thinking it was either a hair below minimum when it was cold and above minimum when it was hot
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That minimum is conservative anyway - the engine is happy until way after the dipstick is completely clean - at least on the previous non-HPE GTSs.
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jimc wrote:
That minimum is conservative anyway - the engine is happy until way after the dipstick is completely clean - at least on the previous non-HPE GTSs.
I was waiting for you to comment the whole time as always! Thanks so much, hoping the oil light was just the thing being super sensitive and it not being out of oil, the guys at the piaggio service place by me were saying that if it ran through most of the oil about 1000 miles from the last change than something is probably much worse going on and it’d probably be covered by warranty.

My dad made some good points, if it was burning that much oil that fast itd probably smell somewhat and I don’t remember it smelling like burning or anything while driving it on the 600 mile day.
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... so ... where goes the oil that "disappears" in the meanders of the engine?
I'm curious.
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Attila wrote:
... so ... where goes the oil that "disappears" in the meanders of the engine?
I'm curious.
I know that oil gets broken down into smaller particles by an engine and the actual volume changes cause the oil is compromised, stuff that burns tends to go through the exhaust I think? Ima not quite sure in regards to burning
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professorcatfacemeowmers wrote:
I know that oil gets broken down into smaller particles by an engine and the actual volume changes cause the oil is compromised,
Please elaborate.
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The lesson here is to make sure one checks the oil level frequently, at least once a week if the bike is used regularly, and before any long run so you pick up on a low level. A 600 mile run will drop the oil on most bikes as the engine does get very hot even running at 55-60mph. The other point is that these engines don't carry much oil, like many bikes of this size it only has 1.3 ltrs of oil in it when full and the motors work hard. Not like a car or truck with many litres of oil in the sump and that don't work as hard.

znomit, I think the prof is saying he is aware oil breaks down as it's used and this changes the volume and quality of the oil. He is quite right of course.
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Any news on a game plan? Remove the sump? Drain the oil? Take it to your dealer?
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jimc wrote:
That minimum is conservative anyway - the engine is happy until way after the dipstick is completely clean - at least on the previous non-HPE GTSs.
Not so happy that the oil light will stay off. That means the minimum is not that conservative! It flashes because it's inducting air rather than oil. As the bike hits bumps the whole engine unit is swinging and churning too little oil around. If the bike leans over as you ride it may also induct air into the oil pump. It all depends how long the op rode the bike for with oil that low as to whether any damage has resulted. It's difficult to tell. One way is to take a look at the camshaft. Sometimes you'll note some "scuffing" to the lobes if the bike has been run with really low oil. The top end is often the first area to suffer like that if the bike has covered a few hundred miles like that. Also the piston and cylinder can show signs of damage and a usb camera or borescope will tell you something about that. Hopefully the op's bike will be fine. But I've seen it go both ways in the workshop. The bike needs a careful check over.
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Stromrider wrote:
znomit, I think the prof is saying he is aware oil breaks down as it's used and this changes the volume and quality of the oil. He is quite right of course.
How does the volume change work exactly?
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znomit wrote:
How does the volume change work exactly?
It’s Italian nuclear fission, taking place right there in the cylinder. The Vespa piston tolerances are so tight that on each stroke the rings actually cleave several hundred oil molecules in two. The electrons of the smaller part of the separated molecule escape out the tailpipe, and, while electrons are very small, over time their absence adds up and the oil level drops.
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Juan_ORhea wrote:
It’s Italian nuclear fission,
Nukasil cylinder coating?
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znomit wrote:
Nukasil cylinder coating?
Also known as Fukushimasil and Chernobasil, depending on where you live. But it’s really much more about the incredibly tight tolerances that the Italians are so well-known for, than the coating itself.
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Juan_ORhea wrote:
It’s Italian nuclear fission...
Laughing emoticon

You confuse the italian genius with the neapolitan art of getting by ...
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Attila wrote:
You confuse the italian genius with the neapolitan art of getting by ...
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Location: East Anglia, UK
 
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2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3766
Location: East Anglia, UK
UTC quote
znomit wrote:
How does the volume change work exactly?
The main way the volume changes is through evaporation.

But volume changes happen at differing levels within the oil molecular structure. For example, in mc oil the electrostatically charged molecules and electrons that help the oil stick to fast moving pistons, rings, camshafts etc gradually get mashed and destroyed. Some of these turn to water and evaporate. Some change to other substances which harmlessly flow around the motor. The viscosity index improvers that form chains of metal protecting substances and cause the oil to stay in grade also get mashed up and this means they no longer expand as they get hotter. This reduces the volume of the oil reducing it's viscosity.

So on a run where you may be cruising at 60-65 for long periods the oil becomes super heated. This thins the oil to it's bottom line figure, but not beyond if the oil is a proper mc oil and it's within it's normal service period. Now car or diesel engine oil is another story, it does thin down beyond it's normal parameters when in a bike engine, but we won't go there today. The net result of running this super heated oil is evaporation through oil mist that occurs in the crankcase. This mist is recycled through the crankcase ventilation system back into the combustion chamber so as not to pollute. It's burned at high temps and passes harmlessly out through the exhaust. You don't ever see oil burning in modern engines because of our CATS. You only see oil burning from exhausts if an engine has some major mechanical issues, usually terminal at the top end. So your oil volume is reducing, and that's on top of normal blow by gases and oil seepage past rings that burns up your oil too.

The other way oil volume changes is due to the break down of the oil additives themselves. Some of the additives in your oil break down and return to their natural state and in the process some turn to water. This is then lost to atmosphere, again through the crankcase vent system. As all this happens the molecular structure of the mc oil changes and it becomes less effective at clinging to fast moving parts, at flowing when cold, and providing a good OFS (oil film strength). But if it's a mc oil you are using none of those changes will actually matter much since as long as the oil is within its normal service period, the oil will perform fully within its specified parameters. As I'm sure you know, there's a load of other stuff I cold drone on about concerning oil but it's not really needed here.
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2 - Many
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Location: Boca Raton, Florida
 
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@scooterraton avatar
2 - Many
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3165
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
UTC quote
I miss Aviator

Anyway, personally I would get it out no matter what. I just don't like riding knowing there is junk in my motor when it's not that big a deal to get it out.

It might not do anything but anytime I hear any noise my first thought would be "is it the dipstick?" If I know it's out it's out and my brain isn't going there.
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