OP
@chatis avatar
UTC

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 1980 Vespa P200, 2003 Stella 2T, 2008 Steall 2T, 2022 Royal Alloy 150 GT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 328
Location: Kansas City
 
Hooked
@chatis avatar
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 1980 Vespa P200, 2003 Stella 2T, 2008 Steall 2T, 2022 Royal Alloy 150 GT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 328
Location: Kansas City
UTC quote
Working on a friends Allstate we ran into an unusual issue (for us anyway).

Putting the engine back together after a repair that involved splitting the cases the kickstart seems to disengage when the clutch cover is tightened. Clutch cover loose the engine turns over with the kick start. Tighten the clutch cover down and the kick start does not turn the engine.

Video Here: https://youtu.be/ztn-oy1YfCc

Any ideas??
@safis avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4304
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
@safis avatar
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4304
Location: Veria, Greece
UTC quote
Clutch not fully seated, wrong washer behind it, assembly issues (if you opened up the clutch). Definitely clutch related, cover is pushing it, that’s why it slips…
OP
@chatis avatar
UTC

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 1980 Vespa P200, 2003 Stella 2T, 2008 Steall 2T, 2022 Royal Alloy 150 GT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 328
Location: Kansas City
 
Hooked
@chatis avatar
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 1980 Vespa P200, 2003 Stella 2T, 2008 Steall 2T, 2022 Royal Alloy 150 GT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 328
Location: Kansas City
UTC quote
We actually didn't remove the clutch at all until this issue started. After removing the clutch cover we were surprised that it started engaging.
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5242
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5242
UTC quote
And to add a little bit more to what Safis said, is it still the stock clutch or is it a larger aftermarket?
OP
@chatis avatar
UTC

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 1980 Vespa P200, 2003 Stella 2T, 2008 Steall 2T, 2022 Royal Alloy 150 GT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 328
Location: Kansas City
 
Hooked
@chatis avatar
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 1980 Vespa P200, 2003 Stella 2T, 2008 Steall 2T, 2022 Royal Alloy 150 GT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 328
Location: Kansas City
UTC quote
I believe it is still the original clutch. There was nothing wrong with the clutch when we split the engine.
OP
@chatis avatar
UTC

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 1980 Vespa P200, 2003 Stella 2T, 2008 Steall 2T, 2022 Royal Alloy 150 GT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 328
Location: Kansas City
 
Hooked
@chatis avatar
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 1980 Vespa P200, 2003 Stella 2T, 2008 Steall 2T, 2022 Royal Alloy 150 GT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 328
Location: Kansas City
UTC quote
One other bit of information. When torqueing the flywheel we put the scooter in gear and held the axel. This did not work since the clutch slipped. Could this have caused the issue??
@christopher_55934 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3547
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
@christopher_55934 avatar
2007 Stella 225
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3547
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
UTC quote
As others have said the clutch cover is pushing on the clutch basket, same as the lever pushing on the clutch basket center. The causes the plates to separate. Maybe the lever or one of it's parts are incorrectly installed.
@rowdyc avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1346
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
 
Molto Verboso
@rowdyc avatar
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1346
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
UTC quote
What type of repairs were done that needed the cases split? Was anything done in the crank area? When you torqued the flywheel nut by putting the scooter in gear and holding the axle may have moved the crank. I don’t know but that is not a wise way to do it as found out. Sure it didn’t help as that’s force on gears, Christmas tree gears and clutch.
What you do know is that the clutch is now touching the cover. Either the clutch moved or the crank moved. Of course you can put a band aid on it with a clutch cover spacer but the real problem may pop up later. If you didn’t remove the clutch make sure the crank and main bearing are seated properly. Make sure flywheel nut is torqued.
Something moved or the clutch cover got narrower???
@xantufrog avatar
UTC

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8892
Location: Atlanta, GA
 
Moderibbit
@xantufrog avatar
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8892
Location: Atlanta, GA
UTC quote
You torqued the flywheel using the clutch (or tried to)? You should get a flywheel holder - I'm not sure if you can torque (in the other sense of the word) the crank seating that way but remember that the clutch can only provide resistance to the flywheel via the crank web bearings
@sdjohn avatar
UTC

Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8539
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8539
Location: San Diego, CA
UTC quote
It sounds like a good way to twist your crank, but not likely the issue here
@108 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
V range 50s
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2412
 
Ossessionato
@108 avatar
V range 50s
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2412
UTC quote
Long shot guess… But, sheared clutch woodruff key…

Maybe the clutch cover holding the clutch down is enough for the Kickstarter, but once the cover is loose, the clutch spins on its own…
@moto64 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1872
Location: S.Salem, NY
 
Molto Verboso
@moto64 avatar
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1872
Location: S.Salem, NY
UTC quote
Check to see if the clutch cable outer is seated inside the adjuster and not hung up on it.
@rowdyc avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1346
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
 
Molto Verboso
@rowdyc avatar
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1346
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
UTC quote
Moto64 wrote:
Check to see if the clutch cable outer is seated inside the adjuster and not hung up on it.
??????

Video shows motor not connected to frame
@moto64 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1872
Location: S.Salem, NY
 
Molto Verboso
@moto64 avatar
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1872
Location: S.Salem, NY
UTC quote
Sorry......
kinda jumped in there. Sounds like the clutch is slightly disengaging when the cover is tightened, If you just place the cover on the case , maybe without the screws, can you feel any contact with the pressure plate before the cover is seated ? You could put a blob of putty or wax or something on the plunger and then tighten the cover and see how much it gets squished.
⬆️    About 1 year elapsed    ⬇️
@dsmith181 avatar
UTC

Hooked
1965 Allstate, 1979 Rally 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 148
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
 
Hooked
@dsmith181 avatar
1965 Allstate, 1979 Rally 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 148
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
UTC quote
I know it's been awhile but I'm dealing with exactly the same issue. We're you able to resolve this?
DoubleGood Design banner

Modern Vespa is the premier site for modern Vespa and Piaggio scooters. Vespa GTS300, GTS250, GTV, GT200, LX150, LXS, ET4, ET2, MP3, Fuoco, Elettrica and more.

Buy Me A Coffee
 

Shop on Amazon with Modern Vespa

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com


All Content Copyright 2005-2024 by Modern Vespa.
All Rights Reserved.


[ Time: 0.0108s ][ Queries: 3 (0.0044s) ][ live ][ 313 ][ ThingOne ]