OP
UTC

Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
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Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
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UTC quote
I have learned a lot in this thread. mostly why the market is soo strong for a restorable early vespa. I reached out to the guy with the super but he didnt respond. its sold already. In truth a deal like that isnt a deal to me. And that is fine because i dont think i would be happy with a cool older vespa with very little hp, crappy brakes, dangerous suspension.

I want a shifty with at least adequate brakes, nice suspension, and a malossi 221 build. So i will be passing on finding an early vespa and sticking to looking for a suitable PX to do a build on. I have a pair of fournales shocks that I bought many years ago. I bought them to to convert them for use on my gts300. fournales never had an application for the gts. But in the end my 300 drives fantastic without further need for suspension upgrades. and since racing bros. has since come to the table for a future shock upgrade for that bike if I feel I ever need to go that route. I have these new shocks here looking for a home. as a result a px build makes best sense for me.

I have been struggling with the decision because the early vespas are so much cooler looking. and to me a px200 is pretty much butt ugly by comparison. but in the end the killer drive is what I am after. far more important than killer old good looks.

so thanks guys for all the input. its been educational
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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UTC quote
Just get a Rally200, checks all your boxes.
UTC

Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1980
Location: Philadelphia
 
Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1980
Location: Philadelphia
UTC quote
And you can always put a P200 engine in an older frame...

You really can't beat those round curves of the early models, so toss a P200 or P150 with a 177 kit on it!
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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72 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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72 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
Yeah, don't forget that you can swap engines more-or-less seamlessly (other than maybe autolube, and even then you can get creative) between any largeframes.

I have a P200 motor in my SprintV, a Stella motor in my GL, and the SprintV motor in my Stella. I've also had a Stella motor in my VBB with an 8" conversion setup on it, but the gearing was a little low.

The biggest difference is the front fork, and even that can be updated to a modern front suspension for a suitable application of dollars and engineering.
UTC

Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
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Location: Siam
 
Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: UTC
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Location: Siam
UTC quote
Do people in the US ever send scooters or motorcycles by train? That's a pretty common practice here in Thailand. The shop I bought my GS from, which is in a different province, put it in a crate and then put it on a freight car of a local train. I picked it up at the train station, a couple days later, unpacked it, put gas in it right at the train station, and rode it home.
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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72 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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UTC quote
Not that I've ever heard of.

In the US, pretty much everything moves by truck unless it's some sort of Intermediate Good, i.e. raw materials for another manufacturing process like coal or ore or bulk chemicals.

Even finished goods are usually things like cars, which are shipped by rail to distribution yards where they're loaded on trucks for delivery to dealerships. And apparently military equipment, because every so often there's a news story about how a boxcar full of M4's or SAW's or mortar rounds went MIA from a rail yard somewhere.
@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4285
Location: Florence, OR
UTC quote
I looked into traveling by train with the scooter. It has to go as freight (doable) and no oil or gas can be in it. Also doable. The trick is to find a passenger train that is also hauling freight.

I used to send big items via train to my brother all the time. Pretty inexpensive, but this was 20 years ago.

But CM is right - most everything goes by truck here in the US.
@greasy125 avatar
UTC

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
@greasy125 avatar
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
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Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
UTC quote
jerryd wrote:
i dont think i would be happy with a cool older vespa with very little hp, crappy brakes, dangerous suspension.
ummm you realize this is literally every vintage bike, right?
Quote:
I want a shifty with at least adequate brakes, nice suspension, and a malossi 221 build. So i will be passing on finding an early vespa and sticking to looking for a suitable PX to do a build on. I have a pair of fournales shocks that I bought many years ago. I bought them to to convert them for use on my gts300. fournales never had an application for the gts. But in the end my 300 drives fantastic without further need for suspension upgrades. and since racing bros. has since come to the table for a future shock upgrade for that bike if I feel I ever need to go that route. I have these new shocks here looking for a home. as a result a px build makes best sense for me.
so yes. you want a PX then.

but those shocks won't work on a p- series.
Quote:
I have been struggling with the decision because the early vespas are so much cooler looking. and to me a px200 is pretty much butt ugly by comparison. but in the end the killer drive is what I am after. far more important than killer old good looks.
you could always upgrade a vintage frame with a disc fork... and a Johnny hot shit motor... all it takes is money...
OP
UTC

Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
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Location: tampa
 
Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: UTC
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Location: tampa
UTC quote
greasy125 wrote:
ummm you realize this is literally every vintage bike, right?

Yes, before being modded. I guess my point is a classic vespa has its highest value per condition when its stock or close to it.



so yes. you want a PX then.

but those shocks won't work on a p- series.

these are the shocks i have: https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/shock-absorber-kit-fournales-front-rear_70940000



you could always upgrade a vintage frame with a disc fork... and a Johnny hot shit motor... all it takes is money...


I am not so sure a disc front is really much better than a drum brake once converted to hydro actuation. my first plan will be converting front and rear drums to operate by single handle hydro brake master. IE I hate foot brakes on scooters...hot shit motor? not your thing I guess? I have money. I just dont throw it around unwisely. If i dont start with a 200 bike I will have to find a second bike as a 200 motor donor. a px200 is pretty easy to find. 200 engines for not so much...

A rally 200 is the impossible dream find. not enough around to have hope of finding one of those. especially in the "great project start condition/price"

@xantufrog avatar
UTC

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Moderibbit
@xantufrog avatar
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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UTC quote
The drum rears tend to be pretty good on these, and the front is definitely the achilles' heel. I did a full hydraulic front conversion on my P200 and it was a MAJOR upgrade in breaking experience. I don't think the rear is necessary unless you're like some hardcore track racer or something I guess. These are small, light, 60mph machines, so it pretty much stops on a dime with the front hydraulic and good rear drum
OP
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Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
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2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
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UTC quote
xantufrog wrote:
The drum rears tend to be pretty good on these, and the front is definitely the achilles' heel. I did a full hydraulic front conversion on my P200 and it was a MAJOR upgrade in breaking experience. I don't think the rear is necessary unless you're like some hardcore track racer or something I guess. These are small, light, 60mph machines, so it pretty much stops on a dime with the front hydraulic and good rear drum
excellent to hear that. my right ankle doesnt flex well. so I find foot brakes not easy to operate. I cant rest my toes on the brake pedal. so reaction time becomes dangerously slow. not to mention moving foot suddenly to the brake position adversely steers the bike as well. cant say I am racer hardcore, but some mods are a must for me. and this would be one of those.
@greasy125 avatar
UTC

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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@greasy125 avatar
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
UTC quote
Quote:
ummm you realize this is literally every vintage bike, right?

Yes, before being modded. I guess my point is a classic vespa has its highest value per condition when its stock or close to it.
correct. but mods bring their own, special set of trials and tribulations.

also, if you're getting into this thinking about ROI or resale or value, don't.
Quote:
so yes. you want a PX then.

but those shocks won't work on a p- series.

these are the shocks i have: https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/shock-absorber-kit-fournales-front-rear_70940000
those will work. I thought you said they were for GTS. anyway, those are good pieces.
Quote:
you could always upgrade a vintage frame with a disc fork... and a Johnny hot shit motor... all it takes is money...


I am not so sure a disc front is really much better than a drum brake once converted to hydro actuation. my first plan will be converting front and rear drums to operate by single handle hydro brake master. IE I hate foot brakes on scooters...hot shit motor? not your thing I guess? I have money. I just dont throw it around unwisely. If i dont start with a 200 bike I will have to find a second bike as a 200 motor donor. a px200 is pretty easy to find. 200 engines for not so much...
a disc is much better.

converting the drums to hydro off of one lever? okay... that should be interesting...

ummm... you're new here, so I'll allow it. I like fast bikes. I have several. nothing I have is stock.

200 is a good starting point. but if you want the vintage look just buy an older bike and slam a 200 into it. if you've got money and you're patient they're out there. shit, I'll sell you one that's ported out for a 210 and reed if you want.
Quote:
A rally 200 is the impossible dream find. not enough around to have hope of finding one of those. especially in the "great project start condition/price"
they're around, you just have to get juiced in and be patient. right now is not the best time to be buying. come fall, you'll see more and more pop up.

with vintage stuff it's not about splashing the cash. it's about sitting around and searching and waiting for what you want and then having the coin on hand and pulling the trigger without hesitation.
UTC

Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
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Posts: 1980
Location: Philadelphia
 
Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1980
Location: Philadelphia
UTC quote
"A rally 200 is the impossible dream find. not enough around to have hope of finding one of those. especially in the "great project start condition/price" "

There's a Rally200 motor on scootnet2.net $700
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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UTC quote
Rally200 motor is sold, but I have a nice lo mile Rally180 motor available you could bump up to 200 without much difficulty. If you want more power, get Greasy's P200 motor. Building what you want takes time and patience plus money. Buying what you want ready to roll takes more money and patience.

If you want custom hydraulic brakes, you will be doing some building anyway, but I like the idea and should be doable with the right proportioning valve. Did you know that the oddball Cosa does have dual hydraulic brakes, but foot pedal actuated? Works well when in good condition.
Hard to find shifty here and most ppl know they are ugly, but great 200cc motor, really solid frame and should be easy to convert to lever operated dual hydraulic brakes
Hard to find shifty here and most ppl know they are ugly, but great 200cc motor, really solid frame and should be easy to convert to lever operated dual hydraulic brakes
@christopher_55934 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Posts: 3547
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
@christopher_55934 avatar
2007 Stella 225
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Location: Rochester, Minnesota
UTC quote
V oodoo wrote:
Rally200 motor is sold, but I have a nice lo mile Rally180 motor available you could bump up to 200 without much difficulty. If you want more power, get Greasy's P200 motor. Building what you want takes time and patience plus money. Buying what you want ready to roll takes more money and patience.

If you want custom hydraulic brakes, you will be doing some building anyway, but I like the idea and should be doable with the right proportioning valve. Did you know that the oddball Cosa does have dual hydraulic brakes, but foot pedal actuated? Works well when in good condition.
Have you seen a dual reservoir hand brake master cylinder? I'd be afraid a single reservoir cylinder would cause no brakes with a single line failure.
@v_oodoo avatar
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'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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UTC quote
Good point and HYPOTHETICALLY, if I were needing this I think I'd try a lever operated slave cylinder auxiliary on the pedal operated stock master cylinder, all separate hydraulics and not chance messing with a good working stock system designed by smart Piaggio engineers. That way you could use hand and/or foot or assist. All pure speculation, but a Cosa does have huge brakes that WILL stop you well.

OP, just pounce on a good P200 when one shows up close enough. Get started and if it's right for you a nice older one will come along eventually to make your own stylewise. But the P styling will grow on you, it has on me. Just need to get a Euro tail light and you're good to go!(private joke, but good advice! )

[attachment-237976 "euro.jpg"]
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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UTC quote
P200s are actually fairly easy to find. 4 or 5 within a few hours ride for me on FB Marketplace. If you want a PX150 with the disc front, there is one on CL in Asheville for $3,000 and he ain't budging on the price. I buy most of my scoots during the winter months here, better deals and everyone needs Christmas money.
OP
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2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
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UTC quote
Yes I think the p200 can be made to look sporty with some simple changes. sport seat, european tail light, and and t5 front horn cast is a great start. I also agree winter time is best time to buy. But last year winter time prices never really arrived like usual. overall bike shortage I gather.
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
Joined: UTC
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Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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UTC quote
You can make the P series quite sporty looking. Clean it up, run some stripes -there you go!
@phangtonpower avatar
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Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
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Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
 
Hooked
@phangtonpower avatar
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 214
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
UTC quote
GickSpeed wrote:
good god! that Allstate went for that? Non running, not complete, missing parts, no Title. $400-600.

would you be interested in a red Allstate that has been gone all the way through, running, Title, Pinasco 177, Pinasco ignition, PInasco Clutch, Pinasco drums, etc. for about the same price? in other words, turn key. send me a PM as there is a local in Indy that has one that built for him. very nice.
That bike would go for at least $5000 here in that condition
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