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Hello,

I recently bought this Vespa with a VBC engine in it. It seems to run decently but I’m looking for performance like the PX clone I had in the late 80’s. It would cruise at 55-60 mph.

I have decent mechanical skills and have rebuilt a few air cooled VW engines including setting up dual carbs.

The 2 port engine kits I’ve seen seem promising but I don’t want to end up building something delicate or unreliable. I know changes in exhaust and carburation will also be needed. The port matching doesn’t scare me, though I would have it welded first. I don’t get using JB weld on an engine case.

Another option is to switch to a PX engine. I don’t know what’s good out there in terms of crate engines.

Thanks
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personally, I'd drop one of the newer updated 2 port kits on there and splash some cash for an updated electronic ignition. and call it done.

if the bike is 8" and you like it that way leave it be. if it's 10's then consider gearing.
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Thank you,

It has 8” wheels. What kind of performance could I expect from upgrading the displacement and ignition?

Thanks
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63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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A 177 kit, with matched ports, 20/20 or 24/24 carb, fastflow tap, 23T clutch, and upgraded exhaust will let you cruise 55-60 on 8’s all day. You can even keep the points and 6V.
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stock 150 super will do 55mph at 6000rpm, I use to push mine to that all the time. With a kit reving to 7000 you would have 64mph.

Any kit not even port matched would likely hit your goal.
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Thank you. That’s plenty fast enough. It’s funny how slow seems fast on these. It’s not like the VBB feels slow accelerating compared to how I remember the PX clone.

I was really wobbly when I first got on the VBB. Not the smaller wheels cause kickstarting was awkward too. I love it though. It’s more going through the gears than going fast. There’s just nothing like it.
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necessary:
remember, riding a slow bike fast is more fun than riding a fast bike slow.
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Do you know the year of the VBC motor? You can check using the engine number. VBC engines later than ~1974/5 have the third port, but it's covered by the 2 port cylinder. The third/boost port is not essential, but at least you'd be able to use and get the best out of any 3 port kit. Also, the VBC used a 20/15 carb, which is as small as they get on a largeframe. A 20/20 or even 24/24 would be a good upgrade
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Here's what you could do...

modify VBC1. 2-port - Fuel... Gimme MORE FUEL !
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I don’t think it’s a 3 port but I will look into it further. I also have the original engine which is seized and rusty. I’m going to pull that apart and see if I can at least salvage the case. It will give me something to learn with.

I’m not sure of the condition of the VBC. Third gear slips but the selector cables are definitely loose. It needs a good going over, then I’ll see how she goes. Engines that get pulled apart tend to stay that way for longer than expected.
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I have been thinking about this more bow that I have finished my VW bus engine rebuild. That one went well.

Definitely going to stay with the 8" wheels and try to get the best out of what I have, so a 177 kit, 23t clutch and 24/24 carb sound doable. What should I consider for exhaust?

Based on the engine number, I believe it is a 2 port engine.

I'm also pulling apart the seized VBB engine that came with it. So far, it's not looking promising as it is heavily rusted. At the very least, it will be a good learning experience. Hopefully the case will be useable.
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Would there be any advantage to going with a better crank?

I was also looking for a 23t clutch and couldn't find one for a vbb/VBC engine. Are these sold as a complete clutch or am I just adding a different pinion?

I am trying to put together a shopping list and my lack of knowledge is making it difficult.

I assume I would need to buy a rebuild kit that included bearings and gaskets. Are there any other parts I should add that are typically replaced during a rebuild?

Thanks for the help.
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scooter mercato has rebuild kits that include all the normal consumables, they are a good value.

the 23t clutch gear can be bought separately but the thing is you have to watch out for the details (6 spring vs 7 spring clutch). what is the other half of the primary you are looking to do? 23/65 is a normal p200 pairing and can work for hopped up 8" setups as well. Post up what your plans are and we can help you figure out what problems there might be in what you are thinking.
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sdjohn wrote:
scooter mercato has rebuild kits that include all the normal consumables, they are a good value.

the 23t clutch gear can be bought separately but the thing is you have to watch out for the details (6 spring vs 7 spring clutch). what is the other half of the primary you are looking to do? 23/65 is a normal p200 pairing and can work for hopped up 8" setups as well. Post up what your plans are and we can help you figure out what problems there might be in what you are thinking.
Hoping to build an engine that will cruise comfortably in the 55-60 mph range and be reliable.

I plan to keep the 8" wheels and stock gearing. Planning to use the Pinasco 177 2 port kit. It makes sense that a larger carb and better exhaust would be needed for the increased displacement. I'm not sure what the 23t clutch accomplishes or whether it's a question of having a more heavy duty clutch for the increased displacement.
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do you know what primary gear ratios are in there now?

you can play some games with primary and gearbox options here:
http://scooterhelp.com/tuning/vespa.gear.calc.html
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Ok, that helps. According to the chart, I would have a 22/67 primary drive gear combination which gives a top speed of 55 mph at 6000 rpm
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orwell84 wrote:
Ok, that helps. According to the chart, I would have a 22/67 primary drive gear combination which gives a top speed of 55 mph at 6000 rpm
if you are hell bent on running at 23T clutch, i would rebuild your cush drive and change the primary to 65.

i personally just run the stock gearing.
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GickSpeed wrote:
if you are hell bent on running at 23T clutch, i would rebuild your cush drive and change the primary to 65.

i personally just run the stock gearing.
I'm not at all. If the stock clutch and gearing were adequate, I would keep it.

I misunderstood the recommendation regarding the 23t clutch and didn't realize that it changes gear ratios. I thought it was more about a sturdier clutch.

If I could get the performance I described by keeping it simple, I would be happy with that, especially for my first build.

So I'm thinking the Pinasco 177 kit, 20/20 or 24/24 carb. Still not sure about which exhaust.
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orwell84 wrote:
I'm not at all. If the stock clutch and gearing were adequate, I would keep it.

I misunderstood the recommendation regarding the 23t clutch and didn't realize that it changes gear ratios. I thought it was more about a sturdier clutch.

If I could get the performance I described by keeping it simple, I would be happy with that, especially for my first build.

So I'm thinking the Pinasco 177 kit, 20/20 or 24/24 carb. Still not sure about which exhaust.
You can't go wrong with the Polini box or SIP Road exhausts.
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The Polini box will NOT fit with 8" wheels. You'll either have to modify the center stand or go with a side stand.
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Yep
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SoCalGuy wrote:
The Polini box will NOT fit with 8" wheels. You'll either have to modify the center stand or go with a side stand.
ah snap, forgot about that.
Thanks!
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The standard primary drive won't work well with 8" wheel and the standard gearbox for a P200. The engine will rev too high, suggest you try a DRT 25/62 is the best option according to the scooterhelp gearing calculator. I'm running a PX125 with a Malossi 24/63 and this works really well. SIP 2 exhaust is also a good option.
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timthemod wrote:
The standard primary drive won't work well with 8" wheel and the standard gearbox for a P200. The engine will rev too high, suggest you try a DRT 25/62 is the best option according to the scooterhelp gearing calculator. I'm running a PX125 with a Malossi 24/63 and this works really well. SIP 2 exhaust is also a good option.
It's a VBC 150 engine, not a P200. I will just keep the VBC gearing and leave that part alone.

I might have mentioned that I had a lurchy 3rd gear. It turned out to have a lot of slack in the outer selector box cable. The barrel nut was not even seated in the slot when in neutral. Much better after I adjusted it.

Honestly this thing still scares the shit out of me. It's been a few decades. I hope I get more comfortable with it.
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orwell84 wrote:
Honestly this thing still scares the shit out of me. It's been a few decades. I hope I get more comfortable with it.
I know what you mean.
Have you drained the gear oil yet?
If not, drain it into a clean container so you can have a good look at it.
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orwell84 wrote:
Another option is to switch to a PX engine.
It's a good option if you can. Hard to find good PX motors tho…

VBB has such a pert tail. Can we see some pics? I'll show you mine if you show me urs.
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Changing the gear oil is on my list as well as cleaning the carb and fuel tank, checking the date codes in the tires. Brakes feel good.

It's got a terrible respray and some dents. No effort was made to hide its sins, which is preferable to shiny paint over cheese.
[/img]
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The legshield has the worst damage but I've been able to work out a lot of it with a hammer and dolly. It's nice metal to work. I have a well equipped shop and have done a lot of welding and metalwork.

I considered the PX option but they aren't easy to find. I recently completed building an engine for the VW bus in the photo including setting up the original stock dual carbs. It required a lot of careful measuring with a bore gauge and micrometers and hand fitting of parts...like filing cam and main bearings to get correct clearances, etc.

It's sort of a self sufficiency thing. When you do it yourself, you know it's right. And if you break down in the middle of nowhere, you have the knowledge to get yourself home.
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Cool pics Orwell - thanks for posting!

I noticed that on your cowl there is no rubber between it and the body of the scooter. One more thing to add to the list.
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qascooter wrote:
Cool pics Orwell - thanks for posting!

I noticed that on your cowl there is no rubber between it and the body of the scooter. One more thing to add to the list.
It's missing a lot of little things. The original color was baby blue. Whatever paint is in there now went right over the legshield damage after someone pounded it out with a claw hammer. No real rust though.
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Thanks for the pics! Bit of work to be done for sure but looks like the it's in the right place. Nice looking shop too.
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Thanks. I will probably be rebuilding the engine in the house over the winter. I rebuilt a lot of the VW engine that way too, but moved it out to the garage when it got too heavy.

I plan to sandblast the body. Cowls in the blast cabinet, body outside. I don't have a great compressor, but it's enough for something this size.
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There is definitely something going on with the gearbox. Third gear slips with downshifting even after adjusting the cables. It did improve up shifts though. When downshifting into third it makes a brief scraping noise. I don't really feel safe riding it like that.

I have been assuming the VBC engine in it is stock. VBB's have been described as sluggish, but it doesn't feel that way. I wonder if someone has had their peanut buttery fingers in this box. I guess I will find out when I open it up.

My other thought on engine building was to start from scratch with a new case and put together a 200 with sensible gearing for 8" wheels and whatever parts are salvageable from the vbb case and VBC engine I have.
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Don't VBB's have flat asses?
Checked the VIN?
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Ray8 wrote:
Don't VBB's have flat asses?
Checked the VIN?
no! the 62 was a round tail
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Ray8 wrote:
Don't VBB's have flat asses?
Checked the VIN?
I did. Pretty sure it was a VBB. What else could it be?
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I've got a 62 Allstate, Chris has a 64 Allstate.

The 62 is round, where the 64 is flat where the license plate goes...

I hung the license plate mount upside down to show off the roundness of that tail.
62 on the left, 64 on right
62 on the left, 64 on right
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qascooter wrote:
I hung the license plate mount upside down to show off the roundness of that tail.
Vespa version of yoga pants.
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I guess I'm not familiar enough with Vespas to know all their different variations. I have been looking for a project scooter for a long time, any large frame at least a 150. I had a PGO 150 from Taiwan in the late 80's. They were imported into Canada. The owner of a scooter shop there told me that mine was one of the last ones he knew if that was still running. Soon after that, the shifting cross blew out. This one isn't mine:




Since it's a mystery engine and obviously has some issues, I'm just going to start pulling it apart. That way I will have a better understanding of what I need as well as the suggestions being made. I watched a scooter west disassembly video last night and I understand now the gearing changes that were suggested. I also understood the things that can make the gears slip. The engine's condition will end up guiding parts choices. I was half hoping to get it on the road as is before cold weather arrives but it's not ready for that.

The videos are really helpful. I have found that the manuals available for Vespas are not the same quality as the Bentley manual I use for my VW bus.

I'm kind of an over thinker so always looking for things like torque specs, wear limit measurements , etc.

Thanks for bearing with me.
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