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Starting a thread as my clutch side seal has gone.
Going to split cases. This is my first time doing this on a Vespa and I wanted to have a space to document and where I can ask questions if needed. I have been reading plenty of other rebuild threads, usual websites (scooterhelp and vespa maintance), and Robot's youtube. I am going to have to take my time as my time is limited so this thread may last for awhile as I get going.

Any advice is welcome and I am honestly looking forward to doing this.
⚠️ Last edited by rfman81 on UTC; edited 3 times
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The best advice I ever heard was stop and have a cup of tea 5 mins before you break stuff.

Obviously that 5 mins is easier to gauge with hindsight so basically if something isn't going well, walk away and think about it.

Oh, and have the right tools, things are so much easier with things like flywheel puller and clutch compressor.
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Matchlessman wrote:
The best advice I ever heard was stop and have a cup of tea 5 mins before you break stuff.
F that tea. You need another herb at bay before and after stuff go bad. ROFL emoticon To each its own but do take your time.

Good luck!
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Yes, take your time and enjoy the process.

Know it's not all going to go perfect, and that's ok.

Try not to force anything too hard cause it'll break.

Check out vids, also pictorials like on Scooter Mercator's site under "tech tips"...

And me - I like to drink coffee and eat pastries of some sort
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seriously, you can't do better than to buy these and watch them. yes they will play on your computer, the PAL format is OK with laptop / computer.

https://scooterproducts.com/product/vespa-engine-rebuild-plus-running-maintenance-dvd-bundle/

I always go back through them each step of the way during my rebuild. Sausage (the dude in the videos) is awesome.

They take paypal and will ship to the USA no problem.
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This video from Scooterwest was great. SIP also has several on their YT channel.

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Thanks all for the encouragement. I went for it today.
Engine is out, labeling of parts has begun. Man this thing was filthy, have about a 1/8 inch of grime caked all over. Went to the local car wash and power washed it.

Question, as you can see there is some seizing marks on the piston and some in barrel however not much in the barrel. Only one really visible is the one in the picture. Nothing that actually catches a fingernail should I
1. Clean up piston and hone barrel and new rings?
2. No one seems to have stock size piston so just replacing piston and rings and hone seems out.
3. I have an 1 oversize piston, so should I just do a rebore 1 size and use the one I already have.

Yeah those Robot videos are some good info, as is the Scooter Mercato stuff.
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usually by the time you get another piston, pay for machining to go up a size, etc usually you are close to the buy a new one territory... sad but true. if you need thrifty then check more sources for a stock bore piston or have scooter mercato or scooter-speed order you one from Germany
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sdjohn wrote:
usually by the time you get another piston, pay for machining to go up a size, etc usually you are close to the buy a new one territory... sad but true. if you need thrifty then check more sources for a stock bore piston or have scooter mercato or scooter-speed order you one from Germany
You're totally right and I originally was thinking the same so I called and talked to Dave at Mercato last Friday. Even Germany seems out of stock pistons. He gave me a screaming deal on one oversize. I am actually saving on the cost of a rebore over getting a new barrel and piston from other shops. I checked with a local machine shop who work on motorcycles they are charging me pretty good rate so all in it's gonna be close to $85 total for oversize piston and rebore.
Was just mulling over option 1… if it's not recommended I am not really missing out much of cost of rebore over just a stock piston.
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I suppose you could try the hone yourself and see if you get good compression with new rings. If you do, you could rock it and save. If you don't you could do the rebore and 1-up from Scooter Mercato

FWIW, I didn't have good luck recovering much compression from a hone and rings on a scored cylinder - but it was my first time and your mileage will surely vary with the degree of scoring

In your shoes I'd probably just go for the oversize (which I currently have). But I'm a rich mofo (kidding)
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rowdyc wrote:
F that tea. You need another herb at bay before and after stuff go bad. ROFL emoticon To each its own but do take your time.

Good luck!
I mean you could always put that into the tea as well!
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At $85 in you are doing well, proceed to 1st oversize….
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Curious if there is any opinion on clutch cork plates. Is there a recommendation on which is better clutch corks? Looking at mercato there is the cheap ones, then there is surflex, and then there is the original piagio ones? Are they same in quality or some better than others?
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rfman81 wrote:
Curious if there is any opinion on clutch cork plates. Is there a recommendation on which is better clutch corks? Looking at mercato there is the cheap ones, then there is surflex, and then there is the original piagio ones? Are they same in quality or some better than others?
Popcorn emoticon
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rfman81 wrote:
Curious if there is any opinion on clutch cork plates.
...
Yes, you ought to have a look here. A little extra work unless you buy a premodified commercial version, but easy to do. Most ppl like them better than Piaggio or Surflex:
Honda CR80 clutch disk page, what have you got?
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Having had bikes where uncracked engines worked fine after 40 years and 20,000 miles, I'm a big fan of Piaggio parts.

Unless the bike is tuned/modified.
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V oodoo wrote:
Yes, you ought to have a look here. A little extra work unless you buy a premodified commercial version, but easy to do. Most ppl like them better than Piaggio or Surflex:
Honda CR80 clutch disk page, what have you got?
Cheers, I am reading now.
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If you didn't buy a piston yet here are some more ideas. The stock P200 66.5mm piston is terrible at its job. 50 years later there are better ones.

If you're going for a rebore, resize to this won't be much more
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/piston-polini-208-cc_2040920?q=68mm%20piston can get these at most places.

Best option are these but tough to find
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/piston-grand-sport-200-cc_12090000

Now, you could just clean up what you have. That piston only seized once. Plenty more life in it yet.
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Making progress today. Cases are split, clutch is out, I have removed the cruciform and gears, rear hub seal was also bad, had no idea but my brakes and hub were caked in gear oil... I am sorta amazed I could stop...

2 Questions

1. How do I remove the wrist pin on the piston... I do not have the fancy tool. Is there a cheat?
2. I am stuck with the oil pump gear on the crankshaft, it won't budge.. I didn't want to stick a screw driver in there incase I messed up the gears, how do you get it off?

Thanks for all the input.
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hjo wrote:
Having had bikes where uncracked engines worked fine after 40 years and 20,000 miles, I'm a big fan of Piaggio parts.

Unless the bike is tuned/modified.
Agreed hjo, this is the first time these cases have been opened, scoot is at 19502 miles. Pretty amazing. Stock bike, no tuning or modifications.
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rfman81 wrote:
Making progress today. Cases are split, clutch is out, I have removed the cruciform and gears, rear hub seal was also bad, had no idea but my brakes and hub were caked in gear oil... I am sorta amazed I could stop...

2 Questions

1. How do I remove the wrist pin on the piston... I do not have the fancy tool. Is there a cheat?
2. I am stuck with the oil pump gear on the crankshaft, it won't budge.. I didn't want to stick a screw driver in there incase I messed up the gears, how do you get it off?

Thanks for all the input.
1. With the circlip removed, some heat around the pin and a 10mm socket and some strong fingers to push it through usually works… unless you have a badly seized one.
Helps if the crank is out of the case
2. That's usually stuck on the bearing with oil… there's nothing actually holding it in place after the clutch has been take off… persuasion with a small flat bladed screwdriver usually works too
⚠️ Last edited by 108 on UTC; edited 1 time
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Thank you 108, got the gear off, and I will try the heat on the piston as it not wanting to budge. Crank is out.

I have made good progress, tear down is a lot easier than I thought. Clutch side case has everything removed including bearings. They came out with a liberal amount of heat and then using a large socket matched to the size and drifted out.

Flywheel side bearing is not wanting to come out. I have used heat, tried the socket method, only broke the little basket holding all the little bearings. I then tried a screwdriver on the lip of the bearing that is visible and tried to not mark up the cases but its making me too nervous I am going to mark it up.

Any advise on how to get this flywheel side bearing out? and the selector box bearing as well? I have done some searches but not to much on technique. One thread ended in an argument about something.
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Put it in the oven at 130c for 35 minutes, bearing side down, supported so that there's space under the bearings.
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Gt6MK3 wrote:
Put it in the oven at 130c for 35 minutes, bearing side down, supported so that there's space under the bearings.
Thanks, Do they just fall out?
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Yeah more heat… you haven't gone far enough away from the bearing seat to get it out…

It should drop out with the oven heat…

Should be easy work if it's hot enough… light taps with a flat blade in a circle should slowly push it out
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Everything is out and cleaned except the flywheel bearing and the selector box bearing. Going to do the oven trick tomorrow for those. This has been a very therapeutic process I must admit. Really been enjoying myself and enjoying the simplicity of these machines.

Removed the swing arm motor bushings for the new ones coming in. I will recommend anyone to use the method given by Prof Plum here (https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic79021) . I got both out within 10 minutes. Cheers Prof Plum for your awesome method.

Clutch brass washer was destroyed as can be seen in the picture. The brass bushing is actually in good shape and not loose. I will reuse.

Question to anyone who are reading my ramblings here, and cheers to those of you who have responded, What about clutch springs? Mercatos website seems to say replace them, but I have seen many that have reused them. So do I replace or do I just reuse clutch springs?
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If the oven is too risky you can usually do the bbq more inconspicuously…
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Does anyone knows where to get a p series engine stand? I called scooter west and they don't carry them, scooter works is out of stock and they don't carry them either(I called them) and they told me that someone use to make the engine stands for them. SIPa probably has them but they charge ridiculous amount for shipping to the USA. I don't want to build one, I just want to buy directly. Thanks!


To the OP. Take your time specially if this is your first time, YouTube is your friend but also take the advise from people here that already went trough. I have some spare OEM P200E engine parts in case you brake something.
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scooterist wrote:
Does anyone knows where to get a p series engine stand? I called scooter west and they don't carry them, scooter works is out of stock and they don't carry them either(I called them) and they told me that someone use to make the engine stands for them. SIPa probably has them but they charge ridiculous amount for shipping to the USA. I don't want to build one, I just want to buy directly. Thanks!


To the OP. Take your time specially if this is your first time, YouTube is your friend but also take the advise from people here that already went trough. I have some spare OEM P200E engine parts in case you brake something.
You can order anything from SIP through ScooterMercato. Will save you a lot in shipping charges. Just go to the vintage vespa page and scroll all the way to the bottom, you should see a "Part to be ordered from SIP" area. Just type in the SIP item number and description and they'll order it for ya
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scooterist wrote:
Does anyone knows where to get a p series engine stand? I called scooter west and they don't carry them, scooter works is out of stock and they don't carry them either(I called them) and they told me that someone use to make the engine stands for them. SIPa probably has them but they charge ridiculous amount for shipping to the USA. I don't want to build one, I just want to buy directly. Thanks!


To the OP. Take your time specially if this is your first time, YouTube is your friend but also take the advise from people here that already went trough. I have some spare OEM P200E engine parts in case you brake something.
Make your own, take a look at this.

Graduated to a Chandler Stand
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Stands are overrated in my opinion, especially if you only plan on doing one job. I have a vise which is great,. but I've built a few motors just sitting on the bench.
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sdjohn wrote:
If the oven is too risky you can usually do the bbq more inconspicuously…
Nice, well I actually have blessing from the wife on the oven. Now if had put my cases through the dishwasher... that might have caused some issues...
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Popgunandy wrote:
Stands are overrated in my opinion, especially if you only plan on doing one job. I have a vise which is great,. but I've built a few motors just sitting on the bench.
Agreed, particularly if you are not building all the time. A 4 inch swivel vice is all I am using, works just fine for pretty much everything so far. Benefit is that I can use it for more than just breaking down and building scooter motors. Great benefit is they are cheaper than an engine stand.
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Any opinions on reusing the clutch springs?
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I don't have a major pearl of wisdom, but I'd reuse them unless it gave you reason not to (broken spring, good plates slipping, or something)
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rfman81 wrote:
Any opinions on reusing the clutch springs?
I'd reuse my cosa clutch springs every time I've disassembled (and it's been around a half dozen times) but I know how many Kms they've been in the clutch.

If you have the luxury of replacing them, I would. You could definitely ride around with them… but unknown wear usually comes back to bite you…
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xantufrog wrote:
I don't have a major pearl of wisdom, but I'd reuse them unless it gave you reason not to (broken spring, good plates slipping, or something)
Cheers, I don't, actually clutch was nice a smooth before this rebuild. When i took the clutch apart the cork on the plates were as hard as a rock and the washer was shredded so I am a bit surprised at how well it ran.
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Another question, I know the trick of using the clutch and the other one of using some washers and the old flywheel side bearing to get the crank back installed.

What about the drive shaft install? Is there a trick for this outside of using the crankshaft tool?

I am already a bit over budget and not sure the Mrs will want me to spend another $60 on a tool that I may only use once or twice. If I have to I will, but would rather avoid that conversation if possible and there is a trick out there.

edit: Google has produced this trick of using the brake drum... has anyone used this?
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Well now I am in a pickle, heated my cases and put my bearing into the freezer, tried fitting my clutch side bearings into the case. I can't get the main bearing past this point, and I am concerned as I don't want to hit it even harder and break the bearing or case...

Do I heat the case around and try to get it to straighten up and go in? The arrow shows how its not straight in from the punch and seems hung up.




edit: solves with a 1/4 screwdriver on the edges of the bearing and straightened out, now its in.
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rfman81 wrote:
Another question, I know the trick of using the clutch and the other one of using some washers and the old flywheel side bearing to get the crank back installed.

What about the drive shaft install? Is there a trick for this outside of using the crankshaft tool?

I am already a bit over budget and not sure the Mrs will want me to spend another $60 on a tool that I may only use once or twice. If I have to I will, but would rather avoid that conversation if possible and there is a trick out there.

edit: Google has produced this trick of using the brake drum... has anyone used this?
just use a large socket over the selector side, against the layshaft itself and install with mallet/hammer, making sure not to let the drift hit any machined / important surfaces.
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