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@adaily avatar
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P200e
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P200e
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Hello,
I purchased a beat up but low mileage P200E. I've been restoring it for a while now. Here's the problem. The carburetor is set up for a larger engine I believe. It constantly floods the engine, bogs down, and blows raw gas out of the Venturi intake. The only way the motor runs properly is if I shut the fuel valve off, when the engine is starving for fuel it runs great. Looking at the brass tube that injects gas I would think it would be a fine spray or a very weak stream. Mine is pouring gas into the combustion chamber until the engine stalls. Question is where should I purchase and what size jets should I install in this carburetor? Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you.
The scooter in question.
The scooter in question.
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Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
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@rowdyc avatar
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UTC quote
Nice p200.

What type of jets are in there now? With it flowing like that it seems no jets are in there at all. LOL

Regular 24/24 injected carb contains an idle jet of 55-160, a 116 main jet, a 160 air corrector, and a BE3 mixer.

The P200 original 24/24 carb was bogged down with a 109 main, mixer BE4, A/C 120 and idle 50-120 with smaller passages inside. It was really more like a 20/20 in which the last year in the USA they stuck a 20/20 on it. If you have that carb it almost best to get a newer 24/24 that has a 116 main jet.

Throw up a picture of your carb so we can figure out what 24/24 you have.
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Bad float needle?

The jets are probably fine, if they're original, and the bike has the stock exhaust and top end.

Did you rebuild the carb?
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Thank you for the quick responses. I'll take a picture of the carburetor. I took the jets out and there are no identifying marks. The carburetor looks original to the scooter but who knows. When I bought the scooter it had been used like a dirt bike, caked with mud, rusty, neglected. I've got it pretty much around 90% but this nagging carburetor issue seems like it should be simple, but it's not. I tested the effectiveness of the needle and float, (using air), works fine. But that doesn't mean it's the correct one. It may be that the previous owner attempted to rebuild the carburetor? Basically the bike sat in a barn rusting away not running for a very long time. I did clean and adjust the carburetor but can't tell if the jets or anything else are correct. Buying the properly sized new carburetor sounds like the way to go. I also checked for play in the fly wheel crank shaft, none, and the rotary valve looks clean. There are 3,600 miles on this 1980 scooter. I'll take a few pictures. I've only ever restored motorcycles. This little scooter is a lot of fun I just need to get it running properly.
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1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 (sold) / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T /Aprilia Sportcity One 50
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UTC quote
Adaily wrote:
Thank you for the quick responses. I'll take a picture of the carburetor. I took the jets out and there are no identifying marks. The carburetor looks original to the scooter but who knows. When I bought the scooter it had been used like a dirt bike, caked with mud, rusty, neglected. I've got it pretty much around 90% but this nagging carburetor issue seems like it should be simple, but it's not. I tested the effectiveness of the needle and float, (using air), works fine. But that doesn't mean it's the correct one. It may be that the previous owner attempted to rebuild the carburetor? Basically the bike sat in a barn rusting away not running for a very long time. I did clean and adjust the carburetor but can't tell if the jets or anything else are correct. Buying the properly sized new carburetor sounds like the way to go. I also checked for play in the fly wheel crank shaft, none, and the rotary valve looks clean. There are 3,600 miles on this 1980 scooter. I'll take a few pictures. I've only ever restored motorcycles. This little scooter is a lot of fun I just need to get it running properly.
Rebuild kits are cheap and it's a nice leisurely afternoon. I'd definitely just do it, restore stock jetting and see where it goes.
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
If all else fails, you can buy a whole new carb for $122.

https://www.scooterwest.com/carburetor-si-24-24e-injector-vespa-p200e-rally-200-px200-183104.html

Most likely, yours is fine, though. The only way those carbs fail is by warping, and the slide will stick. This happens if you torque them unevenly/too much.

I would try a rebuild. Cleaning everything out. Somehow magically works most of the time.

maybe first, check the main jet. It sounds like it could be missing a piece. Does it look like this?

There are three parts. They all have numbers on them, but the print is very subtle.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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Molto Verboso
71' Sprint Veloce , 05' Vespa PX150, 1978 P200E
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Molto Verboso
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You need to make sure the carburetor to the carburetor tray is properly seated(two 11mm hollow nuts). Then you need to start back to factory specs with the settings that was provided to you by the other gentleman on this post.

For being "abandoned" your scooter looks very very good. I think I have carburetors laying around. You can also buy a talon of carb chemical soaker liquid and leave the carburator overnight, the following day clean it with carb cleaner and blow it with compressed air.
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Thank you for the updates. I just got home from work and haven't gotten around to taking a picture. Too late now. To confirm. I examined all of the jets very closely and they do not have any identification.
I used a torque wrench (14 lbs) to tighten the carburetor. It's seated properly and there is no indication that it's warped. Even if it was that doesn't explain the heavy flow of fuel. The picture of the jet looks similar. I'll pull the main jet out again and try to establish a comparison.
Scooter looks good now. Yes it does after a lot of careful work. Plus a fair amount of replacement parts and a perfect paint process. I did not do the painting. Way past my skill level.
If spending $122 eliminates all the guess work it's well worth the money. So I think I'll give that a try and save the old carburetor as a paper weight. I have a few odd parts on my desk at work now.
Update.
Update.
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Molto Verboso
2022 Liberty 150S-"Meg"-SOLD
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UTC quote
Is there a float/needle combo in that carb?

Excess gas and flooding/bogging sure sounds like a stuck/heavy float to me, but I'm on the outside looking in, still searching for my first 2T project.
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1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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UTC quote
25BIKEZ wrote:
Is there a float/needle combo in that carb?

Excess gas and flooding/bogging sure sounds like a stuck/heavy float to me, but I'm on the outside looking in, still searching for my first 2T project.
yup - here's a view of its guts for the curious: http://vespamaintenance.com/fuel/carbrebuild/index.html
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UTC quote
Float needle. Yes simple set up. Doesn't mean the float is moving smoothly through the fuel bowel. Certainly could be the problem. I did thoroughly clean the bowel. So I ordered a new carburetor. I certainly hope it takes care of my issue. Got free shipping!
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We need photos (of carb & jets etc) !

Ohh, you mentioned VENTURI intake (a photo of it would be great) ... that changes jet size dramatically
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A few pictures. Probably won't help but we can try.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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The main jet is missing from those pictures. It plugs into the bottom of the tall one you showed (the air mixer stack). *edit* see HJO's picture above for reference

If that is in fact missing completely, then that's your problem. *edit* yes, I'm sure you are missing your main jet - in the picture you posted of your carb your air mixer is screwed down flush to the carb body. I can't/won't do that with the main jet on the end - the top will stick up a little -> see added image:

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

You need a 116 main if the scooter is stock and still autolubed (looks like it is)

But do note there are markings on those jets - the numbers on those are important (e.g., if the air mixer is BE3 vs BE4)
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UTC quote
Here's a video of one being exchanged

This guy has a series on rebuilding an SI carburetor

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJvxlL1s6bPb2wbE2dbM1IOVqH1Y59jfU


You can get the parts here.


https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/SI-Main-Jets/SIMJET116


https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Jets
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2005 Stellalossi 177 Fe
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Wow! You have no main jet at all. That means above about 1/4 throttle, nothing is metering delivery of fuel--zero, nada, zilch. Your symptoms match that exactly. The good news is it's an easy fix. Assuming the rest of the so-called main stack is stock, get the 116 main jet and proceed to ride it like you stole it.
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See photos help... my drawing skills may be lacking, but, the entire end (ie main jet) is missing, too much liquid will come spewing out of it. At the other end, it may be helpful to turn/spin it, just in case the numbers are on the other side of the shaft.
The 2 smaller ones may need a good clean, as they may have been in the pooper
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
⚠️ Last edited by SubEtherBASS on UTC; edited 1 time
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SubEtherBASS wrote:
ROFL emoticon
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Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
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SubEtherBASS wrote:
See photos help... my drawing skills may be lacking, but, he entire end (ie main jet) is missing, too much liquid will come spewing out of it. At the other end, it may be helpful to turn/spin it, just in case the numbers are on the other side of the shaft.
The 2 smaller ones may need a good clean, as they may have been in the pooper
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
chandlerman wrote:
As methods of marking territory goes, drawing dicks is fairly harmless (and odorless)..
.....Why dicks? Same reason as you. Because we're all 12 at heart.
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Again, great information and updates. Wonder where that little part went?
Another revelation, when I removed the air mixture screw the tip was broken off. Someone cranked that in much too tightly. I've rebuilt quite a few little carburetors, outboards, motor cycles, automotive. I didn't spend much time examining the parts that came out of this unit. I should have. Lots of great advice from some very knowledgeable folks. Thank you.
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Hello again,
I received the new carburetor, very quick service. The air mixture adjustment went from a hard to manage little screw to a much longer and easier to manage hex headed screw. You have to remove it to install the carburetor. Needless to say and predicted by you experts it runs great. It took a while to start as I had the air mixture out one revolution. I kept backing it out until it started. Then I adjusted the idle to its highest RMP with the slide almost closed and then adjusted it to a smooth idle.
Only item worth mentioning is when you flick the throttle it holds RPM
a little longer than I'd expect.
Not much of an issue but maybe I have something out of adjustment.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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After getting everything working better than anytime in the past I thought I would take a nice ride. On the way home all of a sudden the rear end of the scooter snaked on me. Ive felt that before. Rear tire went flat. Right away, not a slow leak. I had put new tires on during the restoration. By the time I pushed it home, hard to push with a flat. I was too tired to see why the tire failed. I ordered a new tire and tube. Not sure if the Metzeler survived the couple mile push while flat. I still have the issue of the engine not returning to idle quickly. Rev it up a bit and it holds the higher rpm too long, at least in my opinion? Any ideas?
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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UTC quote
bet you pinched the tube in the split rim on assembly - have to watch that, easy to do
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UTC quote
Adaily wrote:
Hello again,
I received the new carburetor, very quick service. The air mixture adjustment went from a hard to manage little screw to a much longer and easier to manage hex headed screw. You have to remove it to install the carburetor. Needless to say and predicted by you experts it runs great. It took a while to start as I had the air mixture out one revolution. I kept backing it out until it started. Then I adjusted the idle to its highest RMP with the slide almost closed and then adjusted it to a smooth idle.
Only item worth mentioning is when you flick the throttle it holds RPM
a little longer than I'd expect.
Not much of an issue but maybe I have something out of adjustment.
you can machine down the fuel mixture screw so its dimensions are the same as your original. Then you can install the fuel mixture screw grommet to keep road grime out of your carb box.
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UTC quote
THANK YOU for the two good ideas. Tube, probably right. I ordered two new ones.
Still wondering about the delayed return to idle. Someone will probably know the answer.?
UTC

Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
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Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
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UTC quote
Adaily wrote:
THANK YOU for the two good ideas. Tube, probably right. I ordered two new ones.
Still wondering about the delayed return to idle. Someone will probably know the answer.?
Your idle jet may be too lean.
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