OP
@fleece avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1991 Vespa T5 Pole Position, 2008 Vespa S 125, 2023 Piaggio MP3 300HPE Sport
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Location: Staffordshire England
 
Ossessionato
@fleece avatar
1991 Vespa T5 Pole Position, 2008 Vespa S 125, 2023 Piaggio MP3 300HPE Sport
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4199
Location: Staffordshire England
UTC quote
Quote:
David Letterman, like most Americans, isn't comfortable on a Vespa.
Who knew?! Facepalm emoticon

https://www.insidehook.com/article/vehicles/why-vespa-motor-scooters-never-take-off
@kz1000st avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Dongfang 170cc, CF Moto Fashion 250
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Posts: 1891
Location: Hyde Park, New York
 
Molto Verboso
@kz1000st avatar
Dongfang 170cc, CF Moto Fashion 250
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Location: Hyde Park, New York
UTC quote
Dregni is forthcoming about the shortcomings of motor scooters as well, despite his lifetime passion. Sure, they're more affordable than a new car, but they're still relatively expensive.

If we're talking about Vespas this might be true but the market here is primarily 50cc, about 65% of motor scooter sales. Kymco and SYM can put you on the road for near two grand which is about the cost of a respectable E Bike. Even a Piaggio Typhoon comes in at that price.

Of course the sneering will start at this but Bintelli and Wolf are less expensive than that. If you're a gambling man any number of Chinese 50s are less than that.

Many importers of 50cc scooters are on backorder so it seems that scooters are doing quite well, Thank you.
@amateriat avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2015 GTS 300 Super (Melody: 2015-2021, RIP), 2022 GTS SuperTech (Thelonica; bit the dust 02-22-23)
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Ossessionato
@amateriat avatar
2015 GTS 300 Super (Melody: 2015-2021, RIP), 2022 GTS SuperTech (Thelonica; bit the dust 02-22-23)
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Location: Asbury Park, NJ
UTC quote
Truth be told, I have a hard time imagining Letterman on anything with two wheels, with or without an engine.
@motovista avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
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Location: Watts, Cherokee Nation
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@motovista avatar
GT 2.4
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UTC quote
What is different about the way people live in places where there aren't a lot of scooters and places where there are? Why are there more scooters in general per capita in major cities than there are in the middle of Iowa? Another thing that really hurt scooters in the US was when California required 50cc scooters to be treated like motorcycles. Prior to that, you could buy all sorts of scooters and small motorcycles at Montgomery Wards and Sears, including Vespas, Puchs, and Motobechanes.
@mauro150lx avatar
UTC

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ex 1986 Vespa PX125, 2007 Vespa LX150
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@mauro150lx avatar
ex 1986 Vespa PX125, 2007 Vespa LX150
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Location: Italy
UTC quote
Because in America roads are huge, lanes are huge, distances are huge and fuel is cheap.

In Italy we have tiny medieval villages with small roads running between buildings so close to each other you can step from a balcony to the opposite; the nearest village is 10 km away and fuel is about 2 USD per liter.

So while a HD Electra Glide (or a Victory, or an Indian) is perfectly fit for the US, it's out of place in 99% of the situations here in Italy, and while a Vespa (or a Kymco, or any other scooter) is the perfect vehicle for our context, it's easily out of place in the US...
@xantufrog avatar
UTC

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Posts: 8892
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Moderibbit
@xantufrog avatar
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Posts: 8892
Location: Atlanta, GA
UTC quote
Mauro150LX wrote:
Because in America roads are huge, lanes are huge, distances are huge and fuel is cheap.

In Italy we have tiny medieval villages with small roads running between buildings so close to each other you can step from a balcony to the opposite; the nearest village is 10 km away and fuel is about 2 USD per liter.

So while a HD Electra Glide (or a Victory, or an Indian) is perfectly fit for the US, it's out of place in 99% of the situations here in Italy, and while a Vespa (or a Kymco, or any other scooter) is the perfect vehicle for our context, it's easily out of place in the US...
+1 - I think there are subtle but real cultural differences that build up around those structural differences too. Put the two together, and this is why it makes sense that there are enclaves of greater (relatively) Vespa use in denser urban environments in the US, and even then those enclaves really only favor some urban environments over others; whereas a lot of the rest of the country favors big, fast, chest-thumping rides. It's not that Vespas aren't viable outside their enclaves, and you do find them in the "strangest" places here, but their benefits become less clear over alternatives and limitations start to get accentuated (I say this as someone who grew up rural in both the Southwest and the Northeast, but has since lived for many years in dense urban areas on all sides of the country)
@mr-blazer avatar
UTC

Hooked
Primavera 150; SS180
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Location: Los Angeles
 
Hooked
@mr-blazer avatar
Primavera 150; SS180
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Location: Los Angeles
UTC quote
xantufrog wrote:
+1 - I think there are subtle but real cultural differences that build up around those structural differences too.
I'll never forget the first time I went to Spain (1998) and I watched this businesswoman ride up to work on her scooter and park. 100% put together, in a skirt / blazer and full face helmet.

Never saw anything like that in Los Angeles.
UTC

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2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
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UTC quote
good points. dont forget the macho effect of pride. my brother wouldnt be caught dead riding a scooter. I would die if I had to ride motorcycles.
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
@attila avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@attila avatar
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UTC quote
The three wheels are not scooters and they are not motorcycles, they are much more, they are like the Enterprise C from Star Trek!
@johnymoore avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Vespa PX 177 Settantesimo, Vespa GTS Super 300 HPE, Triumph Bobber Gold Line
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Molto Verboso
@johnymoore avatar
Vespa PX 177 Settantesimo, Vespa GTS Super 300 HPE, Triumph Bobber Gold Line
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UTC quote
I don't think there is huge practical benefit from having a scooter compared to a car in the US so I don't ever see a scooter culture developing. If I lived in the US I might still own a scooter for fun but if I could drive and park a car in town without paying for parking I probably would do that.

We also have all year riding weather in this part of Europe and don't have this notion of putting the bike away for winter.
UTC

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UTC quote
its a twist and go. drives and handles just like a scooter. falls over without a kickstand like a scooter. automatic like a scooter. smooth, quiet, comfortable like a scooter. because it is a scooter. I have seven scooters. the other six are two wheelers. this picture is my only picture I have of my brothers motorcycle. we happen to meat at my mothers house so I jumped at the opportunity to snap a photo.
Quote:
The three wheels are not scooters and they are not motorcycles, they are much more, they are like the Enterprise C from Star Trek!
UTC

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SilverWing 600-- 4nprevious Vespa
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UTC quote
Vespa= too expensive, maybe not so reliable now, expensive service costs, few dealers in US---best /Vespa days in US for me---When Sears sold them for $325---almost everytown had Sears store to order parts.
@stickyfrog avatar
UTC

Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
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Posts: 22659
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Moderatus Rana
@stickyfrog avatar
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
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UTC quote
jerryd wrote:
good points. dont forget the macho effect of pride. my brother wouldnt be caught dead riding a scooter. I would die if I had to ride motorcycles.
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Completely off topic question. Is your MP3 in this photo on a side stand?
@attila avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@attila avatar
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
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Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
UTC quote
jerryd wrote:
its a twist and go. drives and handles just like a scooter. falls over without a kickstand like a scooter. automatic like a scooter. smooth, quiet, comfortable like a scooter. because it is a scooter. I have seven scooters. the other six are two wheelers. this picture is my only picture I have of my brothers motorcycle. we happen to meat at my mothers house so I jumped at the opportunity to snap a photo.
Taken!
@attila avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@attila avatar
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UTC quote
johnymoore wrote:
... but if I could drive and park a car in town without paying for parking I probably would do that.
I already do ...
PS: I have already renewed it.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
UTC

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2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
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Location: tampa
 
Addicted
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UTC quote
stickyfrog wrote:
Completely off topic question. Is your MP3 in this photo on a side stand?
harley self locking stand. the centerstand almost wreck me snagging pothole in a turn.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
@wleuthold avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 2009 Yamaha Zuma 125: 2018 Yamaha Xmax (Big Ugly), 2023 Vespa GTS300 (Ghost)
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@wleuthold avatar
2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 2009 Yamaha Zuma 125: 2018 Yamaha Xmax (Big Ugly), 2023 Vespa GTS300 (Ghost)
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UTC quote
Vespa has actually done quite well in the US, considering that most of the country is filled with pickup truck driving machismo challenged folks.

Vespa dealers still remain in numbers that are quite stunning considering the difficulties they have had getting through to the masses.

Europe is a place with better mass transportation to use as an alternative depending on weather and distances.

It is filled with smaller towns and roads that can be handled easily on most scooters.

Island countries are the same.

Some have laws restricting car ownership.

When living in Bermuda, I was astounded to find that the residents were limited to one car per house. That includes every house from a studio apartment to a $50,000,000 house in Tuckers Town. But you could have as many scooters as you wanted. They were limited to 100cc. The national speed limit is roughly 25 mph, but most drive up to 40.

Parking in Hamilton was unlimited for scooters, but cars could only park in pay lots or were limited to one or two hours on the street. Streets were constantly patrolled, so my co-workers were constantly moving theirs.

I designed a large house renovation for the Attorney General and a kitchen for the Deputy Governor. They both rode scooters to work every day, wearing a blazer, tie and shorts with long socks and dress shoes.

And they parked among the hundreds of other scooters on the road.

Bill
@chrisfromcle avatar
UTC

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2019 Primavera 150, 2019 Honda Super Cub 125, 2017 Honda Metropolitan, 1965 Honda Super Cub 50 CA102
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@chrisfromcle avatar
2019 Primavera 150, 2019 Honda Super Cub 125, 2017 Honda Metropolitan, 1965 Honda Super Cub 50 CA102
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UTC quote
johnymoore wrote:
…if I could drive and park a car in town without paying for parking I probably would do that.
Our state, Ohio, passed a law a little more than a year ago that allows PTW of 150cc or less to park on the sidewalk. Pretty convenient on trips to the city. Another reason to keep the scooter.

Chris from CLE
@mauro150lx avatar
UTC

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ex 1986 Vespa PX125, 2007 Vespa LX150
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Posts: 224
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@mauro150lx avatar
ex 1986 Vespa PX125, 2007 Vespa LX150
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Location: Italy
UTC quote
See? Even your sidewalks are huge - if I park my Vespa on the sidewalk here in Italy, people have to walk on the car's lane
@dooglas avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
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@dooglas avatar
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
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UTC quote
Why Did Vespa Never Take Off in the US?

Huh? Who knew? I have owned 4 Vespas, and 4 other Piaggio scooters. Does that mean I should have bought Taotao's or Yugo's or something?
@etres avatar
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2016 GTV 300 ABS
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Location: Andrews, TX
 
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2016 GTV 300 ABS
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UTC quote
Vespas never take off because they don't have wings. Eyelashes emoticon

Facepalm emoticon
@attila avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@attila avatar
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Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
UTC quote
Dooglas wrote:
Why Did Vespa Never Take Off in the US?

Huh? Who knew? I have owned 4 Vespas, and 4 other Piaggio scooters. Does that mean I should have bought Taotao's or Yugo's or something?
You had to drink a Red Bull. Laughing emoticon

UTC

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2019 MP3 500 Sport
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Location: California
 
Hooked
2019 MP3 500 Sport
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Location: California
UTC quote
There are places in the US where scooters definitely are popular. Of course you never see the hordes of them you'd see in Southern Europe (I grew up in Barcelona and almost everyone I know has owned a scooters at some point in time) or even Paris and London... or some cities in Asia. I think Taipeh may have a world record in scooter density...

But in San Francisco, New York, Seattle and Boston you see quite a few... even in Silicon Valley where I live they are not a rare sight, quite a few Vespa 300s around (I have just once seen another Piaggio MP3 500 and we nearly fell off our rides saluting each other )...

As others mentioned, urban density in the US for the most is nowhere like Europe. Gas prices, at least in California, are creeping up.

I honestly think the main reason is a half-assed commitment: patchy dealer networks, under-investment... it didn't help Fiat bellyflopped in the US... they tried hard, just unfortunate they chose Charlie Sheen as their big bucks spokesperson... Razz emoticon There is zero air cover for the dealers, and supposedly they (Piaggio) treat dealers poorly or treat the US market as a dumping ground. Whereas in Europe/Asia scooters are an essential element of urban commute, in the US they are marketed as weekend escapade, fun things.
@bob_copeland avatar
UTC

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2013 Vespa 300 Super, 2022 Kymco AK 550
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@bob_copeland avatar
2013 Vespa 300 Super, 2022 Kymco AK 550
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Location: Minneapolis USA
UTC quote
Geographical longer distances and cold butt weather explain why both scooters and motorcycles are considered more recreational then practical. Add the potential for
serious injury and you are back in your car.

Bob Copeland
@kz1000st avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Dongfang 170cc, CF Moto Fashion 250
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Posts: 1891
Location: Hyde Park, New York
 
Molto Verboso
@kz1000st avatar
Dongfang 170cc, CF Moto Fashion 250
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UTC quote
Harley and Indian alone are selling over two hundred thousand bikes a year. Scooters have zero presence in the media. So-out of sight, out of mind.
@2011super avatar
UTC

Banned
2021 GTS 300 Touring
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Posts: 4037
Location: Irvine, CA
 
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2021 GTS 300 Touring
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UTC quote
There are so many cost effective options and in the present climate I guess its really not that surprising. They have never really been cool in the masses and when I was talking to my neighbor the other day about a new car that should be arriving in the next few weeks he asked me I would be getting rid of it? I let him know that I have a new one arriving tomorrow and that I will be selling the one I have. He could not understand why someone with a Model Y Performance and a new Plaid would ever want to throw a leg over or be seen on a scooter. Where he came from they are consider low class and for poor people and I took no offense and he meant none.

My friends from India would not be caught dead on one after leaving India and they still always shake their head and laugh at me when I am on mine. I think the world would be a friendlier place if we all road a Vespa, I mean how can you stop smiling when you are riding it.
OP
@fleece avatar
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1991 Vespa T5 Pole Position, 2008 Vespa S 125, 2023 Piaggio MP3 300HPE Sport
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@fleece avatar
1991 Vespa T5 Pole Position, 2008 Vespa S 125, 2023 Piaggio MP3 300HPE Sport
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UTC quote
It does have the best Vespa forum though where Vespa riders from far and wide are always welcome, and a wealth of technical information.

As an 'also rides a Peugeot metropolis' I really appreciate how well the Vespa world is served here
@attila avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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@attila avatar
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Posts: 8291
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UTC quote
Yes, it is.
@mauro150lx avatar
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ex 1986 Vespa PX125, 2007 Vespa LX150
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Posts: 224
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@mauro150lx avatar
ex 1986 Vespa PX125, 2007 Vespa LX150
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Location: Italy
UTC quote
Regarding urbanization in Europe and why a Vespa fits this context: this is where I park when I go to my girlfriend's town - it's the inside of what's left of a late medieval drum tower!

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text


and this's the street leading to her house, anything wider than that white Lancia Y citycar won't pass:

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
@dooglas avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
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Location: Oregon City, OR
 
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@dooglas avatar
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
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UTC quote
Mauro150LX wrote:
Regarding urbanization in Europe and why a Vespa fits this context: this is where I park when I go to my girlfriend's town - it's the inside of what's left of a late medieval drum tower!
Great photo! But that doesn't look like a Vespa. :?
@sdg avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
63 GS160 MK1 / GT60 / Sean Wotherspoon
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@sdg avatar
63 GS160 MK1 / GT60 / Sean Wotherspoon
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UTC quote
I could write a book however I'll play nice on a public forum.

SDG
@mauro150lx avatar
UTC

Hooked
ex 1986 Vespa PX125, 2007 Vespa LX150
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Posts: 224
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@mauro150lx avatar
ex 1986 Vespa PX125, 2007 Vespa LX150
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Location: Italy
UTC quote
Dooglas wrote:
Great photo! But that doesn't look like a Vespa. :?
Thanks! Nope that's not the Vespa, it's my Suzuki Bandit!
@attila avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
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Location: Latina (Italy)
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@attila avatar
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
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Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
UTC quote
It is a Vespa disguised as Suzuki otherwise the children when they see exclaim: "look, a Vespa!"
@burt37 avatar
UTC

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GTS 300 SS BB
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Location: QLD AUS
 
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@burt37 avatar
GTS 300 SS BB
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Location: QLD AUS
UTC quote
SDG wrote:
I could write a book however I'll play nice on a public forum.

SDG
What would be the title??
@waspmike avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold) Now Honda Zoomer X
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@waspmike avatar
LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold) Now Honda Zoomer X
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UTC quote
@sdg avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
63 GS160 MK1 / GT60 / Sean Wotherspoon
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Location: Thousand Oaks
 
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@sdg avatar
63 GS160 MK1 / GT60 / Sean Wotherspoon
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UTC quote
Burt37 wrote:
What would be the title??
Thank God for that "just walk away" button Jess installed.

😊

SDG
@burt37 avatar
UTC

Addicted
GTS 300 SS BB
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@burt37 avatar
GTS 300 SS BB
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UTC quote
SDG wrote:
Thank God for that "just walk away" button Jess installed.

😊

SDG
Laughing emoticon

I always wanted to write one as well, titled: And then there was me"...

PS

I notice the ignore thread button, but most forums also do have the "Ignore this user" as well, that I wasn't able to see or located on here
@znomit avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190 Friday afternoon special, [s]Primavera[/s], S50, too many pushbikes
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@znomit avatar
LX190 Friday afternoon special, [s]Primavera[/s], S50, too many pushbikes
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Posts: 10364
Location: Hermit Kingdom
UTC quote
Burt37 wrote:
I notice the ignore thread button, but most forums also do have the "Ignore this user" as well, that I wasn't able to see or located on here
Jess has a big button for that.
@burt37 avatar
UTC

Addicted
GTS 300 SS BB
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@burt37 avatar
GTS 300 SS BB
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UTC quote
znomit wrote:
Jess has a big button for that.
It would be great if everyone had the button available...
@attila avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@attila avatar
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
UTC quote
znomit wrote:
Jess has a big button for that.
It has much more, we are all seated in an ejection seat.
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