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Gnarly!!
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worms

that section of the gear is often rough casting in texture, so I suspect it's something in the way it was cast. but never seen it look like that.
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Both fly and clutch side seals looked practically brand new, but the oil pump drive gear was stuck on the crank too, but I figured that would more or less resolve itself… block of wood and a hammer… crank out and gear off. Suck it, engine!

Well, I'm only 8 days behind schedule at this point, but I'm now deeper in an engine than I've ever been before. From here on I'm in heretofore uncharted territory.

It's dark, and I've got to go work on the online portion of my bullshit "motorcycle training" class, so I guess I'll get back after it on Saturday.
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oopsclunkthud wrote:
worms

that section of the gear is often rough casting in texture, so I suspect it's something in the way it was cast. but never seen it look like that.
Yeah it's weird… on a rotating part like that you'd expect scoring to run parallel to the circumference rather than perpendicular to it. If that odd description of geometry makes any sense.
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I just figured someone "machined" it to lighten the gear
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I like that lol
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Got the rear hub off and the shifting plunger removed today. I noticed some play in the drive shaft that the cruciform sits in. Like I could wiggle it with my hand. Anyone know if this is normal?

Beyond that… I hit a roadblock almost before I got started. Was hoping to have seals and bearings installed today, but looking at my flyside case half, I realized that the outer bearing race was still stuck in the case. So I'm thinking how TF am I going to get that outta there?!

I came across this thread

race removal

In regards to using a blind puller, I assume that the puller would need to be able to catch the bottom edge, between the race and the case. If so, that's not going to work; I probed the bottom of the race w/a safety pin, and there wasn't even enough space to catch the tip of it on. It's butted up clean against the case, as you can see in this pic.
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Also noted a couple of nicks in the case near where the seal should seat. Cause for concern?
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I don't think you need to remove that race. I didn't. Just put in a new main bearing.

Is the driveshaft bearing still in place, at the wheel side? Does the shaft move in that bearing? If so, new rear bearing will fix that end play. That's why I originally rebuilt my engine.
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No puller will catch it. Weld a piece of bar stock and hit it out. You need to replace the race if you're going for new bearings. I would install a NU205 instead like the one you had before…
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autojack

I appreciate your words of encouragement, and you'd be absolutely correct about that bearing race, except… I'm converting to a px crankshaft, which will be using a different bearing. Best laid plans Facepalm emoticon

And yeah the bearing at the hub is still in place. I made a little video of the wiggle there, but doesn't look like I can upload & post it here.
"Fulcrum" point of play
"Fulcrum" point of play
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Wiggles here too
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Yeah the driveshaft should be press fit into that axle bearing. If you can just pull it out, no good. I went down the whole rabbit hole because my rear axle nut kept working loose. Finally realized it was because the axle was sliding in that bearing. I did all new bearings and a new axle.
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Just to be sure we're talking about the same thing, the play I'm referring to is up and down, perpendicular to the bearing. It sounds as if you're referring to "in and out" play. My axle isn't moving in and out of the bearing.

Apologies to you and anyone who happens to read this thread; it really is amateur hour over here.
Wiggles up and down, not in and out
Wiggles up and down, not in and out
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SaFiS

Yeah that's what I thought.

The bearing I have came with the SIP ducati conversion kit. It was my understanding that installation of the px crank required different bearing than the stock one, I remember reading that it was a t5 bearing.
This is the bearing included in the kit
This is the bearing included in the kit
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Yeah I get you. I guess some play there is expected. That side is supported in the fly side bearing right? I forget, I did my rebuild in 2015 😄
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Play in the axle is normal since it's only supported by one half of the case.

Use Safis method of welding a bar to the race and hammering it out. Pain, but it's the easiest way I've found for Rally cases.
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Thanks MJ. I'm uhh… fresh outta welders, and welding know-how though.

I'm having lunch with my mechanic buddy on Monday. Maybe he could tack something on there.

Failing that, there's a competent vintage scooter shop about an hour from me.
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Heat heat heat and beat the case against a block of wood, if you can get it to shift then you will be able to get some leverage on it. In desperation I've put case halves on the BBQ before…
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sdjohn wrote:
I've put case halves on the BBQ before…
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Hell of a hobby we've got here lol
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Well… I took my engine to ye olde scooter shoppe to get that bearing race removed.

Went one better and figured if I'm going to say uncle and drive an hour to take it in I might as well have them throw the new bearings and crank in there too. I guess if you're going to punk out, punk out hard.

Thing is, they didn't install the inner fly side bearing race on the crank.

I figure heating it and getting it installed won't be much of a problem; if it needs a little tapping, it looks like the sleeve for my crank tool will work fine.

It looks as though the bearing race needs to be spaced 1mm from the crank web. Scooter Mercato is the only vendor that I could find the spacing tool at, and they're out of stock.

Any ideas on, lacking that tool, what I can use to ensure proper spacing between the race and the web?

Right now this is the only thing holding me up from buttoning the engine up, putting it back in the bike, and moving on to sorting out the electrical.
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An old credit card and a pair of scissors? My Discover card is exactly 1 mm.
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garncarz wrote:
An old credit card and a pair of scissors? My Discover card is exactly 1 mm.
Thanks my guy; combination of cut up credit card, feeler gauges, heat, and brute force got it done.

Race grabbed onto the shaft before it was all the way seated, so a series of reheating, canned air on the shaft, then tapping like mad, wash, rinse, repeat ensued.

Found out my "cotton" gloves must be polyester when part of a fingertip melted on the hot race. That was… fun.

Now I can start putting it back together, so I'm HELLA stoked!!
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you put the race on with the crank in the bike? how did you support the webs to keep the crank from going out of true?
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sdjohn wrote:
you put the race on with the crank in the bike? how did you support the webs to keep the crank from going out of true?
Umm… moral support?

Facepalm emoticon

I'm gathering I wasn't supposed to do that? Phenomenal. Bloody amateur hour over here.

So, now what?
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pray to the gods of speed that you didn't tweak it.

a good first check is just to rotate it once the case halves are mated and make sure it doesn't bind anywhere. you may escape unscathed yet.

i seat my races while the crank hangs from one web on a bar of steel, a couple wrenches, or a file that I always seem to have close by in the jaws of a vice. that way the pin and other web don't see any force.
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sdjohn wrote:
pray to the gods of speed that you didn't tweak it.

a good first check is just to rotate it once the case halves are mated and make sure it doesn't bind anywhere. you may escape unscathed yet.

i seat my races while the crank hangs from one web on a bar of steel, a couple wrenches, or a file that I always seem to have close by in the jaws of a vice. that way the pin and other web don't see any force.
Hey thx man I really appreciate your feedback! Yeah, I'll check the rotation with both case halves assembled on Saturday. I'm kind of toying with the idea of ordering one of these to check the shaft:

https://www.amazon.com/Indicator-Magnetic-Holder-Adjustable-0-10mm/dp/B088GM3BL8/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?crid=LKZA14IVR9YX&keywords=deflection+gauge&qid=1689970853&sprefix=deflection%2Caps%2C244&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9zZWFyY2hfYXRm&psc=1

Not especially expensive.

Oh, and since I'm already feeling (and looking) pretty dumb here…

Almost immediately after I was done with the race, I realized that rather than using the outer sleeve of my crank tool and a hammer to tap the race into place, I should have used the whole tool; placing the sleeve over the crankshaft against the race, inserting the threaded shaft into the sleeve and threading it to the crank, and then tightening down the large nut to apply pressure to the race without the pin or opposing web seeing any force.

Don't know why I didn't think of that sooner Facepalm emoticon
Like so
Like so
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yeah, if you do that you have zero risk of knocking it out.

live and learn! glad you are back with us.
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Thanks man, I really appreciate that, I'm glad to be back.

So, I put the flyside case on, no binding or rubbing when I rotate the crank, so I'm gonna run it.

Spent about 15 min hand spinning the flywheel on the crank taper w/ some permatex valve grinding paste, so I should have a good tight fit there.

My next day off is Tuesday, should have the engine buttoned up then.

I'm going to go ahead and use the old piston and cylinder; it ran really strong before the teardown. A little minor scoring, but nothing I can catch my fingernail on.
Jug
Jug
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Piston
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Well, I'm trying to get this engine back together… go to reinstall the clutch, and the damn woodruff key will NOT go into the keyway on my brand new mazzuchelli crank. I can't get any part of the key in there. I even tried the old key that came out of the stock crank, which has beveled edges, no dice. Is this common? Do I need to somehow widen the keyway or file down the key? This is pissing me off…
Beveled key
Beveled key
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No, wait… I think I got it…

This is how it goes, right?
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Can't tell if you're serious - the flat side of the key should be parallel to the crank I can't say for sure, but it is supposed to be a pretty tight fit right? I wonder if just freezing the key would be enough to get it in. I would wait for a more experienced hand to comment.
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sand down the width of the key, likely only need a bit. I do it with a sheet of 600 on a bit of glass.

There are also sometimes burrs on the edge of the keyway on the crank, so hitting that with a file, sandpaper, or scotch bright will often do the trick.
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That last post was just me taking the piss at my own ineptitude lol.

Looks like there's some kinda burr about dead center of the keyway. I can only get the key in at either end of the keyway, can't get it to "rock" into place, so to speak.
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oopsclunkthud wrote:
There are also sometimes burrs on the edge of the keyway on the crank, so hitting that with a file, sandpaper, or scotch bright will often do the trick.
Ok, thanx man. I'll head back to the hardware store tomorrow, see if they have an itty bitty little file for me.
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macgerk77 wrote:
That last post was just me taking the piss at my own ineptitude lol.

Looks like there's some kinda burr about dead center of the keyway. I can only get the key in at either end of the keyway, can't get it to "rock" into place, so to speak.
OK, NOW it makes sense Facepalm emoticon

If you wanna try this before splurging on a file, it works for me. Is your pic just messing around and you can get the key more down but just not all the way? If so, I use a LIGHT hammer to firmly but LIGHTLY tap it all the way in until it's bottomed and the flat parallel is to crank. LIGHTLY, so I don't risk bending the crank usually gets it in there easily. If light tapping doesn't work, you may need a file to delete the burr as suggested. Or if you wanna, sandpaper on screwdriver tip = cheap file.

Also, probably just the camera angle, but your crank keyway is clear and long enuff for this key?
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V-

Looks like the right size to me. I ordered it from Scooter Mercato, clutch side woodruff.

The keyway seems to want to fit the key at either end, but not at all in the middle, if that makes any sense. Like, if I try to press the key into the slot the way it should be properly oriented (round side down, flat side parallel to the shaft) it won't even start to go in.

So I'm guessing there's a burr in the middle at the lip of the keyway. I'll try finessing it with a file tomorrow. Or maybe I should just go apeshit on it with my new dremel
Better pic sizewise
Better pic sizewise
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i think i see it
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