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Auckland is in level 4 lockdown and will be for a few more weeks yet. Delta means everyone has to stay at home and work on their hobbies… Except it also means you have to work with what you've got…

Cleaned up the lathe that I got a while back. Scored it from an old timer who had been making wooden clocks. I don't think it's a good idea to turn wood on a metal lathe - the dust gets into the ways and everything. I also had no idea when last greased and it uses some weird hard to find grease (according to the manual). Fortunately had already found and purchased something that should work. Unfortunately it was in smaller tubes than my grease gun. Had to empty one of the right sized tubes and fill it with the new grease - a horribly messy affair. But it worked and the lathe turns smooth as butter now (wasn't great when I got it).

I hadn't wanted to run it until I knew it had decent grease in it. Had to clean all the ways and threads and everything.

Aim is to try and mount a starter ring gear on my VAPE flywheel. I have the material for that job too. Well… most of it I think. I might be missing a tap.

But I didn't have the chuck key for the old Chinese drill press my dad gave me a while back (he swears he gave me one, but I don't think so). Anyway - figured I better learn how to actually turn something with some precision. Whatever I do to the flywheel has to be precise and concentric to work and be balanced.

I made a version 1 chuck key and had most dimensions ok. But I failed calculating the number of teeth it should have. Turns out most standard chuck keys have 11 teeth. I cut 16 in by hand and had to trash that version.

To make 11 teeth I will have to use a dividing head - which I also had. But didn't get the chuck that it should come with - the lathe came with 3 and thought maybe one will fit.

Turns out no. The dividing head needs a chuck that is screwed on from the front and all mine are from the back…

So spent the day figuring out how to mount one of the chucks using whatever I could find in the shed. Running out of hardware.

Arghh… and what I wouldn't do for some HSS tool blanks for the lathe! It came with one HSS tool that had a weird ass thing going on with one end, an ok facing tool on the other, and is maybe long enough for one more grind. A few carbide tips but learning that they are not great for a) removing a lot of material b) learning on.

Gotta work with what I've got though.
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Weird 'food grade' grease that should have the right consistency and no detergents etc… just the wrong size for my gun…
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Working out how to turn, face and use the compound
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Need that chuck on that dividing head to cut 11 teeth. Both surfaces are threaded/female and those three mounting holes aren't on the same radius (almost, but not exactly)
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Took most of a day to figure this. I think it is pretty accurately centered and level. Will get a proper chuck when I can… but should do to make a chuck key anyway.
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Enough room on the carriage. Just need to work out how to mount something to cut the teeth on the milling arm. Dremel or grinder with a cutting disc - have to figure how big a cut I need to make.
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as a longer term way to mount the chuck consider making a plate that fits the chuck that has a taper matched to the center of the dividing head (assuming it has a taper)
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oopsclunkthud wrote:
as a longer term way to mount the chuck consider making a plate that fits the chuck that has a taper matched to the center of the dividing head (assuming it has a taper)
Yeah it does. Problem is I don't have any stock big enough to turn down - would need to be about 100mm diameter. And even if I had that I haven't got enough HSS to turn something that large down that much. Unless you know a way to accurately mount an end plate to a tapered shaft? I have some plate and bar but can't think how to super accurately connect the two.

Pretty happy with my temporary solution - used the factory edges of the angle bar so should be consistent. Also mounted all the tabs and then rotated the head 360deg with a scribe so I could place the final holes for the chuck itself at equidistant points.

I think I will just fork out for the right (hopefully 4-jaw) chuck after lockdown. Wouldn't use my solution for making primary gears or anything. I haven't even checked it with a micrometer yet because I don't have a mounting solution for the old one I have. Kill for one of those magnetic mounting arm thingy's.

My brain is hurting figuring how to work with the limited stock, tools and hardware I have in the shed. Fun puzzle tho. But I hadn't bought any accessories yet because figured I needed to try making some stuff to figure what I really need first. The shopping list is growing…
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do you have a press? the bar and plate could be pressed together with an interference and/or locktite 603

the the lathe has the same taper that would make it even easier. Do the shaft first, then the hole in the plate to match, press them together and then turn the features on the plate so they run true to the shaft
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No press. And knowing my setup the taper will be different!

One good thing about my solution is that it is adjustable b/c bolts - could fine tune it with a micrometer.

Im guessing taper and plate is ultimate for keeping concentricity (plus a 4 jaw and micrometer). I'm planning on making something like that to mount the VAPE flywheel itself. Haven't decided on whether to use a taper or straight shaft in chuck jaws tho - guess checking if the tapers on the lathe and dividing head are the same or not will help that decision. But being able to adjust the concentricity in the chuck has its advantages - the mounted flywheel might be out and can adjust it back to centre with the chuck.

Fun puzzle - have to think a bunch of steps ahead.
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This is one of those problems that keeps generating other problems. Each step trashes the workspace!
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But managed to sort a way to hold the grinder…
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And a way to mount that to the milling carriage. Can use the milling arm/way to lift and drop the cutting edge. Can micro adjust the angles of the grinder too so can ensure the disc is aligned. Rock solid… hope to try and cut the gears on the chuck key soon.
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Pheas' !
Just catching up with all your goings on.
Appears you've landed a lathe mill combo.
Your usual creativity being put to use just putting it to use.
Love that u've managed to start making chips and figuring out how to use.
Perfect project for lockdown.
Like!
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At the moment just fooling around learning some basics. All this for a drill press chuck key???

Version 2… ready to cut
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All lined up. Got the 33 plate on the dividing head. Just can't run the grinder at 2am so have to call it a night…
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Making tapers both front and back side of the piece already.
Love it.
Very creative set up.
Epic chuck key.
Great place to start
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pheasant plucker wrote:
All lined up. Got the 33 plate on the dividing head. Just can't run the grinder at 2am so have to call it a night…
It's not that you *can't* run it, just that you're not willing to pay the price of doing so. Razz emoticon

This whole thread is outside my skillset, but I'm absolutely loving every post. Following your problem solving process is awesome.
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chandlerman wrote:
It's not that you *can't* run it, just that you're not willing to pay the price of doing so. Razz emoticon
It's so quiet at night during lockdown I reckon the whole block would lynch me!

Today however…
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Not bad given the janky rig…
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Needs to be beveled a little with a file - but works!
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charlieman22 wrote:
Making tapers both front and back side of the piece already.
Yeah kinda - the rear taper is just the shape of the tool. Didn't cut it with the compound - kinda manually. I do know how to but didn't want to risk any of my (limited) carbide tips on a taper that didn't mean anything.

Have ordered some more HSS blanks and a few other things - so hopefully start making some more relevant stuff soon.

Ideally I would have a milling tool that would cut the right gear tooth profile - but they would cost many times the price of a chuck key! Perhaps for making modified gears…

I do wonder if this setup could cut gears tho.
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I'm impressed!

Could you have angled the grinder to match the angle of teeth? Be more work, but save you filing them down to fit..
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chandlerman wrote:
I'm impressed!

Could you have angled the grinder to match the angle of teeth? Be more work, but save you filing them down to fit..
Only a degree or two of adjustment from vertical on the grinder (so I can fine tune it to vertical). Could move the piece over in the dividing head and that would make a relative angle - but it's only going to need a few swipes with a file. The grinder would be overkill for the bevel that they need. Chuck keys seem to fit fairly loosely and not completely into the teeth - needs to be a gap or they bind easily.
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Video of the first cuts…

https://youtu.be/ONlS8A8OCus
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Even if u buy a chuck key after lockdown ends - the experimentation and confidence building will be worth its price in… well, steel.

Dividing head now in your repertoire.
And chuck key works.
Making a tool to make a tool.
Progress through regression.

Can u go out for essentials?
Is the scoot on the road at all?
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That all makes sense, and while I could envision the process, now I also understand how the tools are applied, too

Thanks for making the video. The thing that I wasn't quite working out previously was why you were using a lathe (which I think of as working on spinning things) to cut the teeth of a chuck key.

It's only 7:28 AM here and I've already learned something today. I can call it quits! Razz emoticon
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charlieman22 wrote:
Even if u buy a chuck key after lockdown ends - the experimentation and confidence building will be worth its price in… well, steel.

Dividing head now in your repertoire.
And chuck key works.
Making a tool to make a tool.
Progress through regression.

Can u go out for essentials?
Is the scoot on the road at all?
Yeah that was the idea - learn while making something I needed. Also not critical to be precise (unlike a flywheel). But can't easily find a chuck key with these dimensions either. I made it from the bar from inside some of the wife's small weights - dogs had chewed the foam form off.

Can go out for essentials (supermarkets, petrol stations, etc) but hardware stores and everything else closed. Can get stuff online. Home-based businesses and couriers still sneaking under the radar I think. That or peeps have being buying online from Aus or elsewhere.

Scoot is sweet. Fixed a bunch of minor glitches and a tiny patch of rust or two. Clean and polished (coated).

Adjusting VBB headlamp + fixing headset thread

Bare metal rat coat update

Just got the flywheel off to ponder how to mount the starter ring gear. It's quite the puzzle. Think I'm getting close to a solution. Be nice to press the shiny black button and have it start. It's all there except the ring gear…
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chandlerman wrote:
That all makes sense, and while I could envision the process, now I also understand how the tools are applied, too

Thanks for making the video. The thing that I wasn't quite working out previously was why you were using a lathe (which I think of as working on spinning things) to cut the teeth of a chuck key.

It's only 7:28 AM here and I've already learned something today. I can call it quits! Razz emoticon
Dividing/indexing heads are cool. Cut gears with them. And modify flywheels too I reckon

You can even connect them to the lead screw so they rotate as they move along the lathe way - cut cams and other weird stuff with the mill.
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Starter gear.
Not sure the plan.
Assume the challenge is locking it in place in durable manner.
Assuming there is enough meat on the flywheel fan, you could turn it down to a light interference fit.
Heat the ring before sliding on.
Then - and this is the bit I'm offering up…- drill some pin holes that are overlapping fan and ring gear - and press downs in.

Ok. Now that I made that suggestion knowing none of the issues - what are the actual issues u have to deal with?
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That the ring gear has to sit about 2mm off the VAPE, and that there is only about 5mm inside the flywheel before you hit the case. And is right on the circumference of the flywheel so the teeth sit proud and exposed.
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The original flywheel has that meat - a 5mm (ever so slightly tapered) lip with groove behind for the case lip to seal your ignition. The inside edge of the ring gear is also tapered - just slightly smaller at the outside edge - you have to heat the ring gear and freeze the flywheel to fit it - then the taper keeps the ring gear pulled into the flywheel.
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So yeah - right on the thin edge of the VAPE I need a 5mm thick tapered ring, 7mm high (ring gear spaced 2mm up). That ring has to be firmly and perfectly concentrically attached - I think getting M3 through 5mm is wishful thinking and that's a pretty fine thread - would prefer at least M4. So thinking I will have to shape an "L" shaped ring with the bottom of the L as the threaded and attached surface. This into a groove on the flywheel.

Or cut the lip on the case off and fit some thick ugly solution that will add a lot of weight…
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Right on the edge…
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The lip that inserts into the flywheel behind the ring gear to seal the ignition.
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Finished the chuck key. Just had to take off the sharp edges and sorted!

Be nice to have a drill press. Not sure how true it is… (will check with a micrometer at some stage) but it's better than by hand. Which to this point everything has been!!!

And I quite like the look of it… no obvious play, solid, and fits the shed.

https://youtu.be/-HdJ1WblwtU
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Yeah nah… the drill press needs upgrading. Not enough throat. Tried rigging something to lift it - spent ages getting everything solid and level. Replaced the start capacitor too. But it vibrates and reading +/- 0.1mm just in vibration of the table. The bit isn't running true either. And the motor got really hot just running it for a short while.

Stupid 800kg kit set bench is hopeless too. Sagged in the middle. The lathe isn't that heavy - I lifted it onto the bench by myself (only just I'll admit). Did my best to strengthen it. Floor in the shed is way off which doesn't help either. At some stage gonna need a proper heavy duty bench I think. Might be a future welding project.

Scored a much beastier drill press today though. Hopefully pick it up tomorrow. Gonna need some work with the steel wool and WD40… hopefully clean up ok and run a lot better.
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so, wait a minute......

you did all that work for a chuck key and now you are going to toss the whole drill press out??

Oh my.
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Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
UTC quote
sdjohn wrote:
so, wait a minute......

you did all that work for a chuck key and now you are going to toss the whole drill press out??

Oh my.
I know right! Haha. Made the key to see if I could. Might sell the drill press or give it to my brother - will work for smaller jobs that don't need <0.2mm precision. It's a lot more stable actually connected to its own base (but has a throat/swing too small for what I need).
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@pheasant_plucker avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1379
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
 
Molto Verboso
@pheasant_plucker avatar
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1379
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
UTC quote
Picked up the bigger drill press today. I think it might be big enough…! Can barely lift it and it's almost as tall as the Vespa!

Seems to run very nicely. Will spend a bit of time cleaning it up - seems I enjoy removing rust. That and brown just ain't my colour.
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