OP
UTC

Enthusiast
GT200L
Joined: UTC
Posts: 61
Location: Owatonna, MN
 
Enthusiast
GT200L
Joined: UTC
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Location: Owatonna, MN
UTC quote
Good morning modern vespa folks,

I am wondering how the water pump on the GT200 is driven. I was expecting that when I turn the motor over with a socket here (see first image)


That the water pump impeller pictured here (second image) does not turn. Should it?
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
UTC

Enthusiast
GT200L
Joined: UTC
Posts: 61
Location: Owatonna, MN
 
Enthusiast
GT200L
Joined: UTC
Posts: 61
Location: Owatonna, MN
UTC quote
Never mind, I think I answered my own question. Water pump cover is off, looks like the bearings seized and the plastic part that drives the water pump melted.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@berto avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1930
Location: Toronto
 
Molto Verboso
@berto avatar
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1930
Location: Toronto
UTC quote
Glad you found it, but that sucks!

I'm curious to hear others chime in on if they've seen this before (I haven't) or what might have caused it.
@greasy125 avatar
UTC

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
@greasy125 avatar
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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UTC quote
not bueno. replace the pump AND the vulcanized screws that drive it that are attached to stator. fresh clamps on the coolant hoses, quick flush and bleed and you should be good to go.
@jimc avatar
UTC

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Posts: 43939
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
UTC quote
Sorry you've had all the extra aggro with the head gasket - but the pump seizing is a relative rarity. Well found though!
OP
UTC

Enthusiast
GT200L
Joined: UTC
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Location: Owatonna, MN
 
Enthusiast
GT200L
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Location: Owatonna, MN
UTC quote
Thanks Jimc, I hope with the non-functioning water pump that it didn't overheat and warp the head. I am not sure how far I drove it before I noticed the temp gauge. Nice thing while having the engine out, I was able to tap out the small dent I had in my cowl that has been bothering me for 3 years and it should make the other maintenance items a lot easier.

I also have metal shavings from what was probably a water pump bearing stuck to the pickup from the magneto or whatever the technical term for this thing is.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@berto avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1930
Location: Toronto
 
Molto Verboso
@berto avatar
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1930
Location: Toronto
UTC quote
greasy125 wrote:
not bueno. replace the pump AND the vulcanized screws that drive it that are attached to stator. fresh clamps on the coolant hoses, quick flush and bleed and you should be good to go.
Hey greasy... just trying to follow along... could you please elaborate on the vulcanized screws? (Or fafnir, if you've got photos from the real thing, that's even better!)

I was thinking it's #16 in the second diagram below. But there's only 1 that I can see, and you said screws (plural), so I'm not sure.

The first diagram has a few screws, but those don't look to be related to the water pump and no mention of them being special (just M5 by X).

Maybe the screws you meant are not shown on either of these diagrams, and I need to keep looking?

(screenshots taken from "Granturismo 200 L 2007-2008 (USA)" parts catalogue provided by AF1 Racing)
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
UTC

Enthusiast
GT200L
Joined: UTC
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Location: Owatonna, MN
 
Enthusiast
GT200L
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Location: Owatonna, MN
UTC quote
The vulcanized screw looks like #16 in your diagram. Good luck with your project. I can grab a photo too.

Edited to add photo.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@berto avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
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Posts: 1930
Location: Toronto
 
Molto Verboso
@berto avatar
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
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Location: Toronto
UTC quote
fafnir wrote:
The vulcanized screw looks like #16 in your diagram. Good luck with your project. I can grab a photo too.

Edited to add photo.
Thanks! It's clear now
@max6200 avatar
UTC

Banned
2006 GTS 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10590
Location: KS USA
 
Banned
@max6200 avatar
2006 GTS 250
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Location: KS USA
UTC quote
I know you're just trying to solve a problem and that in and of itself may be a delightful challenge to you.

However I am really sorry that has happened to you.
@greasy125 avatar
UTC

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
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Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
@greasy125 avatar
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
UTC quote
yup you guys have it well in hand.

#16 in the diagram.

ALWAYS replace these when doing a water pump.

little pro tip- a squirt of WD-40 or some silicone when reinstalling the pump makes it all go together super easy.

don't forget the loc-tite!
OP
UTC

Enthusiast
GT200L
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Location: Owatonna, MN
 
Enthusiast
GT200L
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Location: Owatonna, MN
UTC quote
Greasy,

Why should they be replaced? Are they installed with locktite? I have all of my parts on order and did not order replacements for these screws with the rubber bushing on them. I am not doubting you as I clearly have no expertise here just trying to understand why.

Thanks!
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UTC

Enthusiast
GT200L
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Location: Owatonna, MN
 
Enthusiast
GT200L
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Location: Owatonna, MN
UTC quote
berto wrote:
Glad you found it, but that sucks!

I'm curious to hear others chime in on if they've seen this before (I haven't) or what might have caused it.
It does suck, but it is a 15 year old scooter, that with only 7000 miles on it, of which I put 2000, had clearly sat for awhile. The coolant change I did last fall may have been it's first for all I know. Perhaps with all of the sitting the bearings started to rust, or perhaps it was riding on the freeway at 70+ for an extended period of time that did it in...

I'm fortunate to not have to rely on it as my primary source of transportation, it was fun while it lasted. I will either get it fixed in the next week or two or I will sell it off as parts and put some money aside over the winter and get something in the spring. Or perhaps I'll add a Malosi cylinder, piston and head, that could be a fun winter project.
@greasy125 avatar
UTC

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14966
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
@greasy125 avatar
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
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Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
UTC quote
fafnir wrote:
Greasy,

Why should they be replaced? Are they installed with locktite? I have all of my parts on order and did not order replacements for these screws with the rubber bushing on them. I am not doubting you as I clearly have no expertise here just trying to understand why.

Thanks!
That rubber on the screws deteriorates due to age and heat cycles. Once it starts coming apart it'll destroy the plastic water pump drive.

Cheap insurance when you've got parts this old and you're this far in.
OP
UTC

Enthusiast
GT200L
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Posts: 61
Location: Owatonna, MN
 
Enthusiast
GT200L
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Location: Owatonna, MN
UTC quote
Thanks Greasy,

That makes sense. Are they installed with locktite? Do they need to be heated to remove them?
@greasy125 avatar
UTC

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14966
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
@greasy125 avatar
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14966
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
UTC quote
fafnir wrote:
Thanks Greasy,

That makes sense. Are they installed with locktite? Do they need to be heated to remove them?
TBH, I don't actually know if they are or not. But I would (and do) if running a new set in.

A really good set of T-handle hex keys or a blast with the rattle gun has always done me good coming and going.
@max6200 avatar
UTC

Banned
2006 GTS 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10590
Location: KS USA
 
Banned
@max6200 avatar
2006 GTS 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10590
Location: KS USA
UTC quote
Once I rebuilt a water pump on a GT 200. Scooterworks did part of the job. I remember at that time I also changed those 3 stubby rubber thingies. They told me it was best.
@vintage_red_matthew avatar
UTC

MV Santa
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4798
Location: Sedgwick, Kansas
 
MV Santa
@vintage_red_matthew avatar
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4798
Location: Sedgwick, Kansas
UTC quote
The water pump on my GT started leaking so I replaced it. It was still turning OK when I took it off but I looked at it a few days later and it was locked up and wouldn't turn at all. I guess I replaced it just in time.
@motovista avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
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Posts: 9032
Location: Watts, Cherokee Nation
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@motovista avatar
GT 2.4
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Location: Watts, Cherokee Nation
UTC quote
the screws have loctite on them and come in a bag of three from Piaggio. If you're going to shell out $100 for a brand new water pump and housing, might as well spend another twenty for three new ones. It's cheap insurance. I've seen them snap off the flywheel. i also replace the 4 5mm allens holding the pump on. They sometimes break with age.
OP
UTC

Enthusiast
GT200L
Joined: UTC
Posts: 61
Location: Owatonna, MN
 
Enthusiast
GT200L
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Location: Owatonna, MN
UTC quote
Well, I screwed it up. I snapped off the allen screw that holds the counter weight on. Was tightening it up to 7 NM per the service manual and it snapped off in the cam shaft. I don't see how I am getting that out without involving a machine shop, which I am not sure if it is worth it at this point. Kind of bummed.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@motovista avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
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Posts: 9032
Location: Watts, Cherokee Nation
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@motovista avatar
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Posts: 9032
Location: Watts, Cherokee Nation
UTC quote
Used cams are cheap. You should be able to find one for 40-60, or free because someone put on a Malossi kit and they're tired of looking at the old cam. If only there was a forum where you could do a search to find someone who has an old cam they are using as a paperweight....
Maybe the place you bought the parts from could reach out to some of the people who bought Big Bore kits, or has a couple lying around and would give you one that's sitting in a baggie on the shelf behind the small parts drawers and they're tired of wondering what to do with it and too lazy to take a couple photos and put it on ebay.
OP
UTC

Enthusiast
GT200L
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Location: Owatonna, MN
 
Enthusiast
GT200L
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Location: Owatonna, MN
UTC quote
Good suggestions Motovista, ended up enlisting the help of a friend and he was able to extract it.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@jimc avatar
UTC

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Posts: 43939
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Posts: 43939
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
UTC quote
<phew>!!

You're really bonding with your scooter now.
OP
UTC

Enthusiast
GT200L
Joined: UTC
Posts: 61
Location: Owatonna, MN
 
Enthusiast
GT200L
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Posts: 61
Location: Owatonna, MN
UTC quote
It's back together and it runs! Nothing leaking so far! Thanks everyone for the helpful advice and the support!

All that remains is bleeding the rear brake and swapping the distilled water in the cooling system for coolant. (wanted to run distilled water through it to flush out anything)
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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