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@miguel avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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UTC quote
Algeria Used The Last Stockpile.

I'll let the article tell the story.

Miguel
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1980 Vespa P200e (sold), 2002 Vespa ET4 (sold), 1949 Harley-Davidson FL
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@caschnd1 avatar
1980 Vespa P200e (sold), 2002 Vespa ET4 (sold), 1949 Harley-Davidson FL
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UTC quote
I can still buy Leaded gasoline at the Love's truck stop about 10 miles from my house. It's 110 octane race fuel and sold for "off road use only" but it's a regular pump that I can pull up to and fill up my car. I don't use it because Lead clogs up catalytic converters and those things are awful expensive. Not to mention the environmental impact. It's also $8/gal. But, it's still out there and you can buy it. I think aviation fuel also still contains Lead. This Love's truck stop is right next to a drag strip and race track facility. Thus the reason they sell race fuel.

-Craig
@attila avatar
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UTC quote
It smells better and when you suck it with the rubber barrel it tastes better than unleaded.
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Attila wrote:
It smells better and when you suck it with the rubber barrel it tastes better than unleaded.
Kind of like diet Pepsi and regular Pepsi? Both are bad for you but in different ways!
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UTC quote
This would be a good opportunity to mention the lead / crime hypothesis, which posits that there is a correlation between childhood lead exposure (e.g. where leaded gasoline is used) and crime rates (presumably from the children, later in life).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-crime_hypothesis

EDIT: can't get the link to work right. Dammit.
EDIT: Fixed. Thanks for the tip, IronFoot!
⚠️ Last edited by jess on UTC; edited 1 time
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UTC quote
jess wrote:
This would be a good opportunity to mention the lead / crime hypothesis, which posits that there is a correlation between childhood lead exposure (e.g. where leaded gasoline is used) and crime rates (presumably from the children, later in life).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead–crime_hypothesis

EDIT: can't get the link to work right. Dammit.
This may explain why at school I always had six in conduct, under that number you are automatically expelled ... At 17 they found me in a toilet with a girl classmate, we were half naked and I was smoking a joint. Other times...
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
jess wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead–crime_hypothesis

EDIT: can't get the link to work right. Dammit.
The en dash rears its head again. Makes for a neat vanishing trick when the link is placed inside url tags too.
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UTC quote
Ironfoot wrote:
The en dash rears its head again. Makes for a neat vanishing trick when the link is placed inside url tags too.
Gah! I was struggling to understand why the hyphen wasn't getting recognized. Didn't even think that it was because it wasn't actually a hyphen.
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UTC quote
If I want to keep running my 1981 BMW R80 G/S I must now have the valves and valve seats replaced.
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UTC quote
It will cost you more in labor than to remake valve seats and guides.
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1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 (sold) / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T /Aprilia Sportcity One 50
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UTC quote
Fudmucker wrote:
If I want to keep running my 1981 BMW R80 G/S I must now have the valves and valve seats replaced.
My Dad had that same issue with his '62 Corvette, but when he had the heads rebuilt he went through with it.
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UTC quote
seamus26 wrote:
My Dad had that same issue with his '62 Corvette, but when he had the heads rebuilt he went through with it.
I did it on my 1956 MV Agusta 125; I did this by myself about 15 years ago, I went to a friend's machine tool shop and he let me work on the cutter (manually controlled) to dig the seat for the new guides (which I had bought already made).
We then cooled the metal and forced them in. It was easy.
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
kshansen wrote:
Kind of like diet Pepsi and regular Pepsi? Both are bad for you but in different ways!
In my let's say youth when I was enjoying myself working on motorcycles and cars, I accidentally tasted several fluids used in these vehicles.

Gasoline is tasting bad, it is, but the worst of all I found is brake fluid. That tastes terrible and needs a lot of rinsing to get rid of.
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UTC quote
caschnd1 wrote:
I can still buy Leaded gasoline at the Love's truck stop about 10 miles from my house. It's 110 octane race fuel and sold for "off road use only" but it's a regular pump that I can pull up to and fill up my car. I don't use it because Lead clogs up catalytic converters and those things are awful expensive. Not to mention the environmental impact. It's also $8/gal. But, it's still out there and you can buy it. I think aviation fuel also still contains Lead. This Love's truck stop is right next to a drag strip and race track facility. Thus the reason they sell race fuel.

-Craig
So, in fact, the world did not finally stop using leaded fuel.
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UTC quote
Attila wrote:
This may explain why at school I always had six in conduct, under that number you are automatically expelled ... At 17 they found me in a toilet with a girl classmate, we were half naked and I was smoking a joint. Other times...
ROFL emoticon
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UTC quote
Fudmucker wrote:
If I want to keep running my 1981 BMW R80 G/S I must now have the valves and valve seats replaced.
I used this additive in my 1974 Torana as lead replacement.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Sledge wrote:
I used this additive in my 1974 Torana as lead replacement.
A Tornana 1974 is a Holden, an Australian GM, right?

You add the additive to the fuel?
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UTC quote
PeterCC wrote:
A Torana 1974 is a Holden, an Australian GM, right?

You add the additive to the fuel?
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UTC quote
PeterCC wrote:
A Tornana 1974 is a Holden, an Australian GM, right?

You add the additive to the fuel?
Yes, Australian G.M Holden, thats when we had a car industry.

The valve saver additive is 50ml per 50 litres of fuel.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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UTC quote
PeterCC wrote:
So, in fact, the world did not finally stop using leaded fuel.
The higher the compression ratio of a gas motor the more efficient and powerful it is but if the compression ratio is too high the mixture will detonate before the piston reaches peak compression. This can destroy an engine.

The octane rating is a measure of the fuels resistance to detonation or pre ignition. The reason lead was used was it was a cheap and easy way to raise the octane rating of gasoline. New additives can be substituted but most are not as good or cheap as lead.

High performance street and race cars are starting to use E85 (85% alcohol) because alcohol is naturally high octane but cars must be designed to use it. Flex fuel cars can use anything from 0-85% alcohol. Performance cars set up to use E85 must use that exclusively.

Almost any piston engine aircraft must use 115 octane leaded aviation gasoline, AVGAS. The aviation people are very set in their ways and I don't see them certifing any other kind of fuel any time soon.
OP
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UTC quote
caschnd1 wrote:
I can still buy Leaded gasoline at the Love's truck stop about 10 miles from my house. It's 110 octane race fuel and sold for "off road use only" but it's a regular pump that I can pull up to and fill up my car. I don't use it because Lead clogs up catalytic converters and those things are awful expensive. Not to mention the environmental impact. It's also $8/gal. But, it's still out there and you can buy it. I think aviation fuel also still contains Lead. This Love's truck stop is right next to a drag strip and race track facility. Thus the reason they sell race fuel.

-Craig
I don't know if this 100-octane, $10/gallon stuff was leaded or not tho I suspect unleaded given that every car I've seen pull up to this pump is a modern Ferrari-styled racer. LINK

Even still, the leaded gas appears to be gone according to the article. There will always be specialty gas available someplace.
Miguel
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UTC quote
jess wrote:
This would be a good opportunity to mention the lead / crime hypothesis, which posits that there is a correlation between childhood lead exposure (e.g. where leaded gasoline is used) and crime rates (presumably from the children, later in life).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-crime_hypothesis

EDIT: can't get the link to work right. Dammit.
EDIT: Fixed. Thanks for the tip, IronFoot!
I heard about that but never knew it was cause and effect vs just correlated. Thanks for the link. The article literally almost describes me and my upbringing. And that may help explain some of my childhood antics and by poor adult behavior!

Miguel
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UTC quote
This would imply that those who buy a scooter become aware that they were a sinner because of lead fumes or partial ingestion and then, in a sort of immoral redemption, by buying a scooter they try to make up for the motoring choices ... I say a punishment (redemption ) self-inflicted.
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UTC quote
Fudmucker wrote:
If I want to keep running my 1981 BMW R80 G/S I must now have the valves and valve seats replaced.
The Dreaded Previous Owner of my '81 R100RS did that ages ago, likely as a consequence of valve seat wear when the US quit leaded gas. It was a big thing at the time, since BMW initially refused to admit there was a problem (they weren't seeing the problem in Europe since leaded gas was still available after it was phased out in the US, and tetra-ethyl lead residues remained in European gas storage tanks later). Their initial theory was that it was due to overheating/knocking because American riders were abusing their bikes. They were, of course, wrong about that.

My bike has the first version of the "fix": stainless valve seats and dual-plug ignition, and bigger carburetors to chase the effective timing advance from the dual plugs. Later, better alloys would be used for the rest of the airhead production run.
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UTC quote
I used an octane booster called torco. I used it for a year. I had a bad headache for that whole year. I didnt put two and two together till after I stopped using it and the headache finally went away.

I also get headaches from some processed foods. particularly bread. had a similar headache for about a year after eating raisin bread every morning. took forever to pinpoint that problem.

the worst one: spent first 35 years of my life not being able to breathe through my nose. nazel passages swollen. turned out I was allergic to milk. which I loved and drank everyday multiple times a day. was seriously hard to quit. cereal for breakfast had no replacement.

I am otherwise exceptionally healthy person. very rarely do I get sick. cant even think of last time I had a fever. maybe 15 years ago.

in short though poisons' are real. and lead is one of the worst. your body cant get rid of lead.
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UTC quote
The ancient Romans, two thousand years ago, used lead pipes for drinking water for their houses.
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UTC quote
Attila wrote:
The ancient Romans, two thousand years ago, used lead pipes for drinking water for their houses.
And we wonder why Rome fell.
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2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
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UTC quote
Attila wrote:
The ancient Romans, two thousand years ago, used lead pipes for drinking water for their houses.
It's still in use for many private homes in Toronto!

The line connecting the house to the City main is often made of lead. This line is half owned by city (up to property line) and half by homeowner. The city had a program to replace them all, but stopped it because many homeowners weren't updating their half and its a waste of money unless you remove all the lead.

The city will still replace the line, but now it's on individual request rather than a comprehensive program. I've had to get this done at two houses I've bought here.
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UTC quote
jess wrote:
And we wonder why Rome fell.
...if some of today's Romans are its descendants ... Facepalm emoticon

Part of the penstock for the irrigation water of my orchard is in "Eternit"(asbestos).
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UTC quote
berto wrote:
It's still in use for many private homes in Toronto!
(...)
Indeed, only relatively recently lead pipes for drinking water have been abandoned.

Whether there is a health risk depends on the water condition. If the water is neutral and contains a bit of dissolved Calcium, as is here the case, a thin Ca layer will build on the inner surface of the pipe and no lead will dissolve in the water. Is the water acidic and almost free of minerals then the risk on dissolving lead is definitely there.
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UTC quote
I remember being irked that the unleaded gas was more expensive. In my mind the question always was, if they have to add lead to the gas shouldn't it cost more than gas that doesn't need the extra additive?
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UTC quote
Economic policy, companies are actually interested in pushing new fuels that are easier and cheaper to produce but no less expensive for those who will have to buy them.
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UTC quote
Small airplanes in the U.S. still use leaded gas. The toxic air in neighborhoods near airports is especially harmful to children's brains.
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UTC quote
Attila wrote:
The ancient Romans, two thousand years ago, used lead pipes for drinking water for their houses.
As I understand it, they also used lead based salts to flavor food. Wha? emoticon
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Madison Sully wrote:
As I understand it, they also used lead based salts to flavor food. Wha? emoticon
Even worse has happened in the history of humanity:

https://www.iltascabile.com/scienze/radioattivita-moda/

When radioactivity was fashion able.

Drinks, potions, creams, toothpastes, pills: the history of radioactive self-medications from the 1920s to today.

It is very easy for the word radioactivity to be associated with failed power plants, atomic fungi, contamination, disease and death. The use in war, known and hidden accidents, atomic tests with their consequences and the fear of terrorist acts, have made him a sneaky and invisible enemy, magnifying the perception of atomic risk compared to its real proportions.

Yet it wasn't always like that. In February 1921, for example, Dr. Charles G. Davis of Chicago wrote in the American Journal of Clinical Medicine: "Radioactivity is the very essence of life [...] prevents madness, stimulates noble emotions, delays old age and creates a splendid, happy youthful life ". Let's go back a century: the First World War is over and the West faces the industrial and economic boom of the "Roaring Twenties", an era of great expectations for scientific and technological progress. Among the new fashions on which public attention is focused, there are two young fields of science: radioactivity and endocrinology. Radioactivity was discovered between 1895 and 1898, in a series of experiments carried out by Röntgen, Becquerel and the Curie spouses; endocrinology has more ancient roots, but the word "hormone" only appeared in the early twentieth century. 1921 saw the two disciplines together in the limelight, with the Nobel Prize in Chemistry awarded to Frederick Soddy for his research on radioactive elements and with the announcement of the discovery of insulin by Frederick Banting and Charles Best, which resulted in Banting the Nobel Prize for Medicine two years later. In 1921, moreover, Marie Curie visited the United States on a tour that, although very short, aroused great interest.

In short, hormones such as insulin are involved in the processes that harness and redistribute energy in the body. And radioactivity is the new form of energy. It was thus thought that most diseases could be attributed to a hormonal imbalance, and that small doses of radioactivity could be the cure. It was not a completely random conclusion. On the one hand, radiotherapy was proving to be a valid alternative to disfiguring or invasive surgery in the fight against cancer; on the other hand, for some time we have been trying to discover the origin of the curative power (or presumed so?) of numerous thermal springs, such as those of Hot Springs in Arkansas, of Bramach in Germany or of Joachimstal in Austria, which were considered a panacea for a number of diseases such as arthritis, rheumatism, gastric dyspepsia, flatulence and chronic skin lesions.

In 1903 Joseph J. Thomson, discoverer of the electron, wrote to the journal Nature that he had measured low levels of radioactivity in spring waters. It therefore seemed natural to deduce that the health benefits derived from radioactivity; an idea corroborated by the statements of numerous doctors, including Dr. Charles G. Davis quoted at the beginning. The damage caused by exposure to high doses of radioactivity was well known, but doctors followed the school of thought according to which radiation, administered in small quantities, on the contrary showed healing properties.

Hypothesis of hormesis
The existence of opposite reactions to certain stimuli by living organisms, depending on the dose, is called hormesis. Low concentrations of otherwise toxic chemicals can stimulate protective responses in the body; a classic example is the effect attributed to the intake of moderate amounts of alcohol. The hypothesis of a radiation hormesis is not entirely without basis, and is supported by various laboratory studies even today; however, there is disagreement on several aspects of the question, including the mechanism of action, threshold doses, and the variability of response depending on exposure conditions and tissue type. A line of research, however, by now unpopular, which today is in fact almost stranded.

In the 1920s, however, radiation hormesis was almost considered an established truth, and in this context a set of complex speculations was built on the operating principles of low-dose radioactivity. Professor Boltwood, a well-known radiochemist and friend of the Nobel laureate Ernest Rutherford, says that radioactivity "carries electrical energy deep into the body and there subjects the fluids, protoplasm and nuclei of cells to an immediate bombardment of explosions of electrical atoms [sic!] causing the elimination of waste products ".

The object of particular interest was alpha radioactivity: pieces of atomic nuclei emitted by heavy elements, consisting of two protons and two neutrons, not used by radiotherapy of the time due to their very low penetrating power, which does not allow them to overcome the barrier constituted by the skin. The idea was to introduce alpha radiation from the inside, by ingestion or injection; some doctors experimented with radio injections until the early 1920s, without conclusive results. Outside the clinical setting, however, it was preferred to focus on the oral intake of radioactivity. Radioactive substances, considered "natural", evaded the safety regulations applied to drugs; moreover, at the time, regulatory bodies such as the American Food & Drugs Administration had very little effective power. This favored the birth of a market for devices and products that acted as sources of radioactivity even for those who could not go to the thermal springs.

Radioactive products
The first idea was to bottle the water from the springs and sell it in the cities, but there was a problem: the radioactivity, to which the healing power of thermal water was attributed, did not last long away from the springs. This is because the radioactive element dissolved in those waters was radon, a noble gas produced by the decay of radium and which in turn decays in a very rapid time: about every four days the amount of radon contained in the water was halved, and in the three weeks it took to bottle and transport the water from the spa to the shops, its concentration became negligible.

It was thus decided to overcome this drawback in two ways: by inventing household devices that "refill" the water with a fresh dose of radioactivity, or by creating over-the-counter products (potions, creams, toothpastes, pills) in which to directly dissolve the radium. , ancestor of radon, whose much longer decay time (1600 years) guaranteed a virtually unlimited effect. Alongside these two main product lines, other radioactive gadgets such as pillows, mats, paperweights and buckles were conceived and marketed. These objects could be purchased at wellness centers (which proudly claimed, in advertising signs, the radioactive nature of their thermal waters) but several dedicated companies were also born: Radium Health Products of Canada, National Radium Company, Radium Emanator Filter Co., Radonite Corporation, American Radium Products Company are some of the only names in North America. Of course, the health authorities soon became concerned that the public would not end up in the hands of charlatans, which is why the American Medical Association began to carry out checks and remove from the market all products that did not actually guarantee advertised radioactivity.

One of the most active and prosperous companies was Bailey Radium Laboratories, based in New Jersey. The founder, William J. A. Bailey, was a brilliant man, but of questionable ethics. He boasted a degree from Harvard that he had never earned, and before turning to radioactivity medicine he had been involved in some scams. However, many customers trusted him by purchasing his products (that they really were radioactive and therefore passed all quality controls). Among his great successes are the Revigator and the Radioendocrinator. The first was a ceramic jar coated with carnotite, a mineral containing uranium which, by decaying, produced radium and subsequently radon; filling the jar with water or other drinks, the radon infused making them radioactive. Subsequent studies showed that more than from radon, the danger of intoxication came from other elements (vanadium, arsenic and uranium) present in the structure of the jar. The Radioendocrinator, on the other hand, was a gold tablet containing paper impregnated with radium and set in a faux leather and velvet case, to be worn via an adaptable strap near the gland of interest: thyroid, adrenals, ovaries or testicles (with an adapter special for the scrotum).

But the greatest success came with Radithor, invented in 1918: two isotopes of radium (radium-226 and 228) dissolved in half an ounce of distilled water promised to cure over 150 "endocrinological" diseases, including weakness and impotence. It is estimated that over 400,000 bottles of Radithor were sold for one dollar each (with a 400% markup on production costs), making Bailey a rich man. Curiously, the peak of sales came in the mid-1920s, coinciding with the first disturbing discoveries about the consequences of radio ingestion. In 1924, Theodore Blum, a New York dentist, began to notice an increasing number of cases of osteomyelitis of the jaw and jaw in workers at the Radium Corporation, who painted the luminous dials of watches with radium paint. The girls were advised to taper the tip of the brush between their lips; in this way every day they ingested small quantities of radium that accumulated in their organism, especially in the bones as it is chemically similar to calcium.

Symptoms also progressed long after exposure to radium had ended: loss of teeth, spontaneous fractures, necrosis of bone tissue and other damage to the bone marrow, kidneys and liver. This is because the alpha particles emitted by the accumulated radium, even if they stop within a few millionths of a millimeter, are able to ionize the surrounding tissues, sometimes inducing genetic mutations that lead to cancer or cell death. The case of the radium girls contributed over time to bring to light the danger of exposure to radioactive substances, but at the time it struggled a lot to capture attention: they were women belonging to the lower social classes, and Blum's discoveries were not given weight. Even when they learned about it, radioactive product aficionados preferred to think that the employees of the Radium Corporation were the victims of some other paint contaminant rather than radium. It took the death of a prominent person for the fashion of radioactive self-medication to suffer a fatal blow.

A death that caused a sensation
The unwelcome honor went to Eben Byers, golf champion and tombeur de femmes of American high society, as well as president of the Girard Iron Company founded by his father, in one of the most famous and striking cases of radiation poisoning. In 1927, at the age of 47, Byers fell from the bunk of a sleeping car and injured his arm. In the following weeks, her pain did not improve and affected her sports, work and - it is said - even sexual activity. One of the doctors he turned to recommended the Radithor miracle cure. Suddenly feeling invigorated, Byers began to consume three bottles a day, passionately praised it with friends and lovers, and even administered it to his racehorses. It is estimated that he consumed 1,400 bottles from 1928 to October 1930, when he returned to the doctor complaining of a loss of vigor and a series of pains in his head and teeth - teeth which soon began to fall out. Meanwhile, radiologist Joseph Steiner noticed similarities between the damage suffered by Byers and those of the radium girls: Byers' body was falling apart from massive radio poisoning.

At first, Byers did not want to accept this verdict, but in the following year his conditions plummeted. In September 1931, the Federal Trade Commission opened an investigation and asked Byers to testify; Attorney Robert H. Wynn was sent to visit him at his Southampton estate, as he could no longer move. Wynn relates that a brain abscess made speech difficult and that "the entire jaw, except for two front teeth, and most of the jaw had been removed. All the remaining bone tissue in his body was slowly disintegrating, and abscesses were forming in his skull. " Byers died of multiple organ failure at Doctor's Hospital in New York on the following March 31; in December, the Federal Trade Commission ordered Bailey to forcibly cease the production and advertising of radioactive remedies or devices.

With the death of Byers, however, the Food & Drugs Administration will take the opportunity to request (and subsequently obtain) greater regulatory power over medicines and medical devices, establishing the assumption that every medicine, including natural or "over the counter" , is harmful until proven otherwise.
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