Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:54 pm

Hooked
2019 MP3 500 Sport
Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 102
Location: California
 
Hooked
2019 MP3 500 Sport
Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 102
Location: California
Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:54 pm linkquote
...having the 6k mile service coming up, I want to be armed with the info to tell the service shop what to do about the front system maintenance (aka "the Achilles heel"). Because (a) it isn't actually mentioned in the service manual for 6k, (b) it's called by many different terms which makes it hard to find a best practice, (c) i can't find it in the service manual, or maybe i scrolled through it too fast.
I want to be able to point the service shop to what exactly I want them to do - everything else in the 6k service seems pretty standard.
Sorry if this has been posted a hundred times elsewhere. Just want to find the official Piaggio service guideline/procedure.
Thanks!
Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:50 pm

Addicted
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 546
Location: Belgium
 
Addicted
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 546
Location: Belgium
Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:50 pm linkquote
IF the headstock bearings were adjusted at the initial 1K service then the 6K service is just a matter of relubing the headstock bearings and putting in a new V belt. While the rollers are also called for replacement every 6K miles, I find the original Piaggio ones to be very long lasting. I've got 40K on mine and still going strong.

Also change the diff gear oil. And if the bike is 2 years old change the coolant (use G12 spec such as Audi) and brake fluid with DOT4 for the entire brake system and tilt lock.
Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:46 pm

Hooked
50cc Beo, MP3 400 2012, BigBeo 2003
Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 338
Location: Chelyabinsk, Russia
 
Hooked
50cc Beo, MP3 400 2012, BigBeo 2003
Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 338
Location: Chelyabinsk, Russia
Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:46 pm linkquote
There's no real reason to change brake fluid in suspension lock. It does not have any contact with dirt as in brake calipers, neither it is heavily used. However it is not so hard to do: all you need is to push it from the down and sip from the reservoir.
Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:56 pm

Addicted
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 546
Location: Belgium
 
Addicted
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 546
Location: Belgium
Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:56 pm linkquote
Brake fluid absorbs moisture, and moisture is the enemy. Does not matter if it is brake lines, or tilt lock lines.

Replacement every 2 years is what most car manufacturers recommend.
Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:06 am

Hooked
50cc Beo, MP3 400 2012, BigBeo 2003
Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 338
Location: Chelyabinsk, Russia
 
Hooked
50cc Beo, MP3 400 2012, BigBeo 2003
Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 338
Location: Chelyabinsk, Russia
Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:06 am linkquote
And what happens with absorbed moisture in suspension lock?
Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:27 am

Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 312
Location: Austin, TX
 
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 312
Location: Austin, TX
Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:27 am linkquote
Same thing that happens with moisture-laden brake fluid in the braking system- it corrodes the metal leading to leaks and pitting. Best to just change the stuff often; it's cheap insurance. We don't have to worry about it much because we don't use the brakes as hard as a car does, but moisture also lowers the boiling point of the brake fluid, and boiling brake fluid is really a very bad thing when you want to stop.
Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:04 am

Hooked
50cc Beo, MP3 400 2012, BigBeo 2003
Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 338
Location: Chelyabinsk, Russia
 
Hooked
50cc Beo, MP3 400 2012, BigBeo 2003
Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 338
Location: Chelyabinsk, Russia
Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:04 am linkquote
That's it about boiling point. But I don't think that there's something to corrode in suspension lock system. Also the brake fluid itself should contain anti-corrosion additives. So yep, there's nothing bad in changing the fluid in tilt lock, but also there's nothing bad in skipping that procedure. How do I know? Simply I had an mp3'2006 and replaced its tilt lock fluid in 2016. It was clean, and the system worked perfectly, and I am pretty sure noone did that before me.
Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:04 am

Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 312
Location: Austin, TX
 
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 312
Location: Austin, TX
Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:04 am linkquote
Here in Austin, Texas, my tilt-lock fluid turned yellow in two years because it's so humid here. That yellow stuff is dissolved iron oxide- and it comes from any steel bits in the system. And that's the water in the brake fluid reacting with the metal of the tilt-lock system. It isn't much, but when you remove metal, it's always a bad thing. Best just to change the stuff when it gets yellow.
Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:28 pm

Hooked
50cc Beo, MP3 400 2012, BigBeo 2003
Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 338
Location: Chelyabinsk, Russia
 
Hooked
50cc Beo, MP3 400 2012, BigBeo 2003
Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 338
Location: Chelyabinsk, Russia
Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:28 pm linkquote
Lots of brake fluids are yellow straight from the bottle More, the only location you're able to see its color is a tank on the upper part of the tilt lock system. But the brake fluid there is a "spare" quantity, it is not mixed with the one inside the hydraulic part. So there's no any way how the fluid in the plastic tank gets iron oxide particles. It becomes brownish-yellow either from aging or from air humidity, but not because it dissolves iron.

More, there's no too much steel components contacting with the fluid. And those which do are not vulnerable to corrosion.
Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:35 pm

Addicted
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 546
Location: Belgium
 
Addicted
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 546
Location: Belgium
Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:35 pm linkquote
Don't let the color fool you, it's just a dye. Some are clearer, some are darker straight out of the bottle. Some are even dyed blue or other color.

In its purest form, brake fluid is essentially colorless

But they all share the propensity to absorb moisture. I'd rather invest 10Euro in a fresh bottle of brake fluid every 2 years vs. buying a ABS pump or other high price component.

While I have a professional fluid tester to determine humidity content down to 0.2%, I mostly use a 3 color grading system as follows. Light urine color = OK, maple syrup like color = brake fluid flush needed, dark brown or black = warm up the cash register and call the owner
Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:55 am

Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 312
Location: Austin, TX
 
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 312
Location: Austin, TX
Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:55 am linkquote
Yellow/brown stuff in brake fluid is a dye? I didn't know that. Sure looks like rust. The stuff is really acidic. I think it must be an indicator dye because a new fresh can of brake fluid is colorless, and if you open the can it turns yellow pretty quickly. If it's brown, it's been left too long, whether in the brake system or in the can. I always use a new unopened can when I replace brake fluid and discard the excess.

I disagree with the assertion that the fluid in the reservoir doesn't mix with the fluid in the rest of the system- some fluid from the reservoir goes into the system when the lock is engaged, it will mix in the hose (due to thermal molecular motion at the minimum even if the hose is perfectly free of vortices; it won't stay stratified), and then when the lock is released, it goes back into the reservoir. Eventually it all gets mixed.
Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:38 pm

Hooked
50cc Beo, MP3 400 2012, BigBeo 2003
Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 338
Location: Chelyabinsk, Russia
 
Hooked
50cc Beo, MP3 400 2012, BigBeo 2003
Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 338
Location: Chelyabinsk, Russia
Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:38 pm linkquote
You can't even measure level changes in the reservoir. So if one ml of fluid moves further and back, it does not mean that all the fluid is mixed. Of course, some Brown's movement of particles has its place, but that doesn't really matter. I mean, in the brake caliper the brake fluid is always pretty more dirty than in expansion reservoir. So you never can know its condition by looking into the reservoir (in true brake systems). But in tilt lock it does not have much contact with air and dirt. Neither it is "acidic"
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