Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:24 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
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Location: Florence, OR
 
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Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:24 pm linkquote
Scootnewb wrote:
It's decision time.

1. Replace the seal
OR
2. Get a bigger ball and pump it faster.
Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:33 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
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Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:33 am linkquote
Scootnewb wrote:
It's decision time.

1. Replace the seal
OR
2. Get a bigger ball and pump it faster.
If you got with Option 2, you can change the seal at the same time you replace the seized top end. That'll save you having to open the motor up twice.
Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:22 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
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Location: Florence, OR
 
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Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:22 pm linkquote
I got a few minutes in the garage, after I made some Apple Crisp that is

Managed to pull the engine and do a first pass at the grime with a plastic putty knife.

I did have to cut a few cables to get the crimp bolt off. It's gonna get new inners anyway, so snip they went.


Hmmm, coffee, Apple Crisp fresh out of the oven, and an engine to remove. It's gonna be a good day


Selector box is looking... Dirty. It'll need fresh cables also.


Cut the brake cable. I couldn't extract it - too frayed


Clutch cable was cut also


Taking a putty knife to the engine. Then pressure wash...

Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:24 pm

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Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:24 pm linkquote
Nice work. Apple Crisp looks Delish! Good energy dish right there
Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:50 pm

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62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:50 pm linkquote
The timings on the apple crisp look sporty.
The shaping of the new mug's outlet says smooth power.
Appears to be ideal balance all the way around.
Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:59 pm

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Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:59 pm linkquote
charlieman22 wrote:
The timings on the apple crisp look sporty.
The shaping of the new mug's outlet says smooth power.
Appears to be ideal balance all the way around.
Optimum Powerband Combo!
Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:09 am

Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1992
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1992
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:09 am linkquote
qascooter wrote:
I got a few minutes in the garage, after I made some Apple Crisp that is

Managed to pull the engine and do a first pass at the grime with a plastic putty knife.

I did have to cut a few cables to get the crimp bolt off. It's gonna get new inners anyway, so snip they went.
I like to buy ceramic mugs while on vacation, heavier the better. Especially when I can find them made locally.
Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:23 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2505
Location: Florence, OR
 
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2505
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:23 pm linkquote
charlieman22 wrote:
The timings on the apple crisp look sporty.
The shaping of the new mug's outlet says smooth power.
Appears to be ideal balance all the way around.
I flippin LOVE this!

My wife was all concerned about me liking the mug cause I had that elephant mug for over 20 years. It survived various places of employ, crazy drink concoctions, and travelling in the rig.

Truth be told its not the mug, just the fit, like a favorite pair of jeans or shoes. But life is inevitable and everything breaks, so I'm stoked to have the new mug - smooth power...
Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:34 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2505
Location: Florence, OR
 
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
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Location: Florence, OR
Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:34 pm linkquote
I gave the engine a bath in degreaser, then pressure washed it.

Then split the cases and popped the seals and bearings out. Chris is coming over tomorrow for a "scrub engine parts" garage day. And BS about life and scooters of course.


Before


After


Before fly side


After fly side


Piston and cylinder


Case split


The blown seal made a burned mess, like lasagna baked on inside an oven... For years..

Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:55 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
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Location: Florence, OR
 
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Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:55 pm linkquote
It was a good day today. Chris came over and brought some chocolate swirl Bundt cake his wife sent over (thanks Valerie!).

We scrubbed parts and BSd enough to come up with a game plan for this engine, and solve some huge global issues too. Ha, not the last part obviously...


Yummm


Baked on fly side seal - hmmm


Brake cleaner and a plastic putty knife did pretty good!


Some baked on seal here also


After...

Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:57 am

Not So Moderator
VNB VSC VBC VSX*2
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 5439
Location: Hustletown, TX
 
Not So Moderator
VNB VSC VBC VSX*2
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Posts: 5439
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Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:57 am linkquote
Nice work!
Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:58 am

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 6215
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:58 am linkquote
Whoo-ee, that's practically clean enough to eat Bundt cake off of!
Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:53 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
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Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:53 am linkquote
I'm sending my cases to you for cleaning from now on! You can then forward them along to CM2 for machining...
Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:41 pm

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Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:41 pm linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
I'm sending my cases to you for cleaning from now on! You can then forward them along to CM2 for machining...
Put me next in Queue
Fri Nov 12, 2021 2:39 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2505
Location: Florence, OR
 
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Fri Nov 12, 2021 2:39 pm linkquote
Put in new engine buffers, then started cleaning the rear wheel well...


Drilled some holes in the rubber and popped out the old buffers


Slid the new buffers in with a hammer and silicone window track spray. I pounded on the screwdriver instead of banging on the pipe directly


Well, I took a layer off. Time for another...


Better, but it needs one more session to clean it up, then some wax...


Dang, it sure gets messy... Time to clean this up, then lay down some more cardboard for round 2...

Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:12 am

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Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:12 am linkquote
Gettin there! swift work on the buffers
Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:55 pm

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'66 Super 150
Joined: 11 Jul 2017
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Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:55 pm linkquote
The before and after shots on this thread are amazing, qa! So satisfying to see the old lasagna crud get blasted, and the smooth clean metal remain. It's like therapy almost!

Also a great thread for foodies. For some reason, I can't get apple crisp off my brain.....
Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:20 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2505
Location: Florence, OR
 
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Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:20 pm linkquote
Kimono32 wrote:
It's like therapy almost!
.
.
I can't get apple crisp off my brain.....
Heh heh. It is big time therapy for me. I get focused and all fades except the next area to be cleaned. It's kinda weird, but that's what I liked about setting tile for a living - everything fades except the task in front of me.

And I hope you know that there is a bowl of apple crisp (a la mode) waiting for you and your tribe if you ever get to the Oregon Coast.

I'm on my 2nd pan of the stuff and got about a hundred apples to go. I've given away bags and bags of apples.its crazy how much the tree produced this year - some years there's hardly an apple.

Thanks K - parts come in tomorrow and the real fun begins. I'll do my best to take pics along the way - and of what I'm eating too of course.
Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:32 pm

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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
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Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:32 pm linkquote
Today I opened the inlet 8 degrees and cleaned up the inlet in general. It's like the factory took a drill to the inlet to open it up.

I also received a box from "The Market". Oh yeah!


Before


After


Hopefully I didn't forget anything. But now that I said that, I probably jynxed myself and did :)


Old crank / new crank


Old crank / new crank

Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:04 pm

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Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:04 pm linkquote
Very nice! 60m Stroke ftw! A few of these stroker builds going on around here, I like it
Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:11 pm

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
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Location: california
 
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Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:11 pm linkquote
Man - that is one super happy battery box.
Question - what is the basic process with Osopho to paint?
(asking for a friend)
Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:58 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2505
Location: Florence, OR
 
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Location: Florence, OR
Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:58 pm linkquote
charlieman22 wrote:
Man - that is one super happy battery box.
Question - what is the basic process with Osopho to paint?
(asking for a friend)
Thanks man. Easy stuff...
1) knock off the big rust with a wire brush, etc.
2) brush on Ospho and let it soak overnight. It morphs the rust into...something not rust..
3) sand it down and wipe it down with a tack cloth.
4) primer
5) paint

I like to use quick dry primer & paint,

On super rusty pieces sometimes you may need a second coat of Ospho. That's pretty much it.
Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:42 pm

Ossessionato
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Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:42 pm linkquote
also keep in mind that Ospho will only create that phosphate surface on the rust that it touches. Lots of the rust that is in our old scooters is deeper than just surface rust. That means that all the rust that is still there under that layer(s) of Ospho will still be eating away at the steel. Ideally, you would have full access to the rust area, and you would scrub it with Ospho (or phosphoric acid) until the metal is bright and shiny. Being that our scooters have many hidden nooks and crannies, it's just about impossible to remove all the rust with any home remedies. That being said, Ospho does work really well for a "home remedy".
Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:16 pm

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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
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Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:16 pm linkquote
GeekLion wrote:
Very nice! 60m Stroke ftw! A few of these stroker builds going on around here, I like it
This build is going to be:

Stock cylinder
60mm crank
Grand Sport piston
SIP Road 3 exhaust
Mild porting on the intake, and possibly exhaust cylinder. I want to check the alignment of components

And I might as well spill the beans now: This is no longer my scooter - it belongs to none other than my buddy Chris (ScootNewb), but I'm still going to do the build.

This is the skinny: I sat looking at the scoot for a number of weeks, debating on what to do with it, (build to sell, keep, etc.). Then Chris comes over and I pretty much know he'd love to have it. He's got a thing for white scooters and this scooter is pretty clean.

It came a point where I knew I'd just build it up stock and move it along, or maybe build it up the way Chris would like it, and I could do it up nice and still get to ride it every once in a while when I go over to the valley.

You see, Chris and I think alike in many ways. He wasn't going to bring up the subject of what I was going to do with Bianca until I was ready, because no machine or money is worth getting in the way of friendship. But I knew, and he knew, and I knew he knew that I knew, that he wanted it. heh heh.

So we made it official - but I wanted to get it running properly, which means building it out and riding it for a while, and he's all cool with that.

And that's the story....
Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:01 am

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Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:01 am linkquote
qascooter wrote:
This build is going to be:

Stock cylinder
60mm crank
Grand Sport piston
SIP Road 3 exhaust
Mild porting on the intake, and possibly exhaust cylinder. I want to check the alignment of components

And I might as well spill the beans now: This is no longer my scooter - it belongs to none other than my buddy Chris (ScootNewb), but I'm still going to do the build.

This is the skinny: I sat looking at the scoot for a number of weeks, debating on what to do with it, (build to sell, keep, etc.). Then Chris comes over and I pretty much know he'd love to have it. He's got a thing for white scooters and this scooter is pretty clean.

It came a point where I knew I'd just build it up stock and move it along, or maybe build it up the way Chris would like it, and I could do it up nice and still get to ride it every once in a while when I go over to the valley.

You see, Chris and I think alike in many ways. He wasn't going to bring up the subject of what I was going to do with Bianca until I was ready, because no machine or money is worth getting in the way of friendship. But I knew, and he knew, and I knew he knew that I knew, that he wanted it. heh heh.

So we made it official - but I wanted to get it running properly, which means building it out and riding it for a while, and he's all cool with that.

And that's the story....
These are my FAVORITE type of deals. Two great friends, sharing a passion; supporting each other and sharing the passion in real world terms. I'm super happy to know that Chris is going to end up with Bianca. Well deserved!! Sounds like a good plan, good deal, and good times all the way around. The friendship is the priority, the scooters just make it more fun
Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:47 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
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Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:47 am linkquote
charlieman22 wrote:
Man - that is one super happy battery box.
Question - what is the basic process with Osopho to paint?
(asking for a friend)
On the GL, I did Ospho as the final step before I prepped for paint. After it had done its thing, I washed it off well with water, then sprayed and wiped with acetone, then went into "normal" paint prep on the galvanized surface.

It seems to be holding up well (even if its lifespan is still measured in months), but it definitely started from a les-than-ideal place.
Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:51 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2505
Location: Florence, OR
 
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Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:51 pm linkquote
I got a few things done today.

Shifting cross replaced
Cush drive rebuilt
Fly side bearings and kickstart gear installed.

Curious to see what tomorrow brings...


I didn't take any pictures of the process, but did use blue loctite.


Torch the cases and tap the bearings in


Put in new kickstart buffers, rubber o-ring for the kickstart shaft, grease it up and put it together, then lock the spring in.


Drilled out the rivots on the Cush drive


Then tapped them out with a punch


Cleaned and inspected everything then put the springs in and the covers on


Tip: use the old spring cover to hold all the rivots in place while peening...


Axle, bearing, and surclip installed. Ready to go in the case...

Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:11 pm

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Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:11 pm linkquote
nice work. New stock cush springs?
Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:59 am

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2505
Location: Florence, OR
 
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Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:59 am linkquote
GeekLion wrote:
nice work. New stock cush springs?
Thanks man! Yes, new stock springs. Should I have gone a different route?
Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:54 am

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3050
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
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Posts: 3050
Location: London UK
Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:54 am linkquote
Engine looks nicely worn. Going to be good for a long time after all this work.

With the 60mm crank if you just install the cylinder with stock base gasket, to have PBT near zero, the compression will be too high. Fit at least a 1.0mm packer under the cylinder to set the squish at about 1.5mm. You could measure the new cc (208), head volume and dome and calculate it but will probably still work out at about 1.5mm squish.

GS piston windows will not align perfectly with the cylinder, these will need some work to line up better.

Exhaust port will go to 48mm wide, with no risk for those GS rings. Go as wide as you dare. Probably less than 44mm now.
Raise the exhaust a few mm (2mm at least but can go much more) and flatten the centre section 20mm.
Fri Nov 19, 2021 4:04 am

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Fri Nov 19, 2021 4:04 am linkquote
Jack221 wrote:
Engine looks nicely worn. Going to be good for a long time after all this work.

With the 60mm crank if you just install the cylinder with stock base gasket, to have PBT near zero, the compression will be too high. Fit at least a 1.0mm packer under the cylinder to set the squish at about 1.5mm. You could measure the new cc (208), head volume and dome and calculate it but will probably still work out at about 1.5mm squish.

GS piston windows will not align perfectly with the cylinder, these will need some work to line up better.

Exhaust port will go to 48mm wide, with no risk for those GS rings. Go as wide as you dare. Probably less than 44mm now.
Raise the exhaust a few mm (2mm at least but can go much more) and flatten the centre section 20mm.
I'll vote yes on all this. I did all this on stock cylinder.. widened exhaust port, opened up the rotary valve length a bit, 60mm crank and put a gs piston on which I matched to the cylinder. It runs strong for nearly stock, feels like my tuned stella but with more smooth power delivery and tons of torque.
Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:50 am

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Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:50 am linkquote
qascooter wrote:
Thanks man! Yes, new stock springs. Should I have gone a different route?
Stockers are good. I was just asking and clarifying for the brain trust

I like Jack's plan outlined above. I'll be following a similar path for my Patina200E.
Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:41 pm

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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
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Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:41 pm linkquote
Thanks for the info Jack! You must've been reading my mind. I was literally thinking "I wonder what Jack would do with this?" Perfect timing.

And thanks to you Swiss and GL for chiming in. I'm getting close to test fitting the cylinder & piston.

Today I did very little. Put in the axle bearing, and the gearing..


Axle bearing is in


Bearings installed, the bastards


All gears installed

Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:19 pm

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1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:19 pm linkquote
You have the oil guide the wrong way in…



Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:22 am

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2505
Location: Florence, OR
 
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Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:22 am linkquote
SaFiS wrote:
You have the oil guide the wrong way in…
Oh shit, THANK YOU!!!
Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:44 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
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Lucky
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Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:44 am linkquote
Getting all the damn needle bearings on the primary drive shaft installed isn't "very little." It's a very big PITA.
Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:36 am

Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
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Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:36 am linkquote
qascooter wrote:
Oh shit, THANK YOU!!!
Great work! That would have been discovered when putting the cases back together but good to get it straight beforehand. Great catch Safis.
Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:40 am

Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
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Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
 
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Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 1139
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:40 am linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
Getting all the damn needle bearings on the primary drive shaft installed isn't "very little." It's a very big PITA.
Not very hard if using one of the o-rings from the gasket set to hold down the small bearings.


Got this suggestion from Matt.

Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:52 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:52 am linkquote
rowdyc wrote:
Not very hard if using one of the o-rings from the gasket set to hold down the small bearings.
I've tried various things to hold them during assembly. Never tried that, but I will next time!

Thanks, dude!
Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:07 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5375
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5375
Location: San Diego, CA
Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:07 am linkquote
Sausage recommended a zip tie in those videos but that o-ring looks like a good answer as well.
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