This video delves into some of the reasons why the US might be roundabout-averse. One of the reasons is the early invention of the Traffic Circle in the US, which is similar and yet not at all the same as a modern roundabout.
Fascinating stuff.
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For many of us 'merkins who have ridden scooters in Europe, roundabouts are a bit of a revelation. They also take a little bit of getting used to, at least for those of us who lack everyday exposure to them.
This video delves into some of the reasons why the US might be roundabout-averse. One of the reasons is the early invention of the Traffic Circle in the US, which is similar and yet not at all the same as a modern roundabout. Fascinating stuff. |
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I heard the traffic Tzar of Carmel talk on NPR about the roundabouts there. Very interesting how public opinion was dead against them while the first ones were being installed, but then was absolutely for them after about a week!
What I haven't seen yet in the US are 'mini-roundabouts' - basically wherever there's a four-way stop, or T-junction with a three-way stop, you paint an 18" diameter white spot in the middle - and that's then the centre of a new roundabout. Everyone takes turns (give way to the right in the UK, to the left in the US just like a normal roundabout) and traffic flows very smoothly with hardly anyone actually having to come to a stop. They also help over-size vehicles traverse the junction, as there's no solid island in the middle. |
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jimc wrote: What I haven't seen yet in the US are 'mini-roundabouts' - basically wherever there's a four-way stop, or T-junction with a three-way stop, you paint an 18" diameter white spot in the middle - and that's then the centre of a new roundabout. Everyone takes turns (give way to the right in the UK, to the left in the US just like a normal roundabout) and traffic flows very smoothly with hardly anyone actually having to come to a stop. They also help over-size vehicles traverse the junction, as there's no solid island in the middle. After all, if there's no stop sign, you can just go through at full speed, right? RIGHT?!? |
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Attila wrote: One kilometer from my house: https://goo.gl/maps/zU8nJaJxDmjuHvm97 |
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And then there are the 'magic roundabouts'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon) |
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jimc wrote: And then there are the 'magic roundabouts'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon) |
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In my area, mini-roundabouts often involve contrarians who enter in the wrong direction. Quite unnerving.
I still prefer them to 4-way stops. |
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jess wrote: In the US, this would undoubtedly include stop signs at all four entries. Because otherwise, chaos would reign. Or something. After all, if there's no stop sign, you can just go through at full speed, right? RIGHT?!? I remember Al trying to give a talk on roundabouts on the 2010 Bella Italia trip. He made it sound quite complicated, when it's really oh so simple! |
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Interestingly enough, a lot of CONUS US Air Force bases I've either been stationed at, or temporarily assigned to, have at least one large diameter traffic circle somewhere between the main gate and the flight line.
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Growing up in Mass we had Rotaries (aka big-ass roundabouts) that acted as on/off ramps for the interstate sized Route 2 that ran roughly from Boston to nearly the New York border.
Growing up, the off ramp had right-of-way in the rotary, which was fun. You (read:I) could storm off Rt2 onto the rotary and see if you could make the turn left to S Gardner, my home town. It's changed now, so the rotary has right-of-way, so the fun is gone now. These roundabouts are less fun than my home town. |
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So instead of someone running a stop and pulling out in front of you, now they can fail to yield and pull out in front of you?
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Take a stroll, er, ride, in New Jersey. If you survive, you are good to go in the rest of the US. Don't forget the jug handles, for practice! Full disclosure, I do not live in NJ. Though, I do access roundabouts and traffic circles in various parts of NE Ohio. Great places to take Driver's Ed students. For practice.
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When the state of Arizona was rebuilding AZ179, which runs from I-17 to Sedona, AZ, the state decided to replace all traffic lights with roundabouts. The idea, they posted, was to keep traffic moving, but at a lower speed.
It's 8.7 miles from the Village of Oak Creek, a settlement outside Sedona, to Sedona. The state installed 11 roundabouts. It takes nearly an hour to travel that 8.7 miles on weekends now. Locals that aren't cursed by living on the route take other ways to Sedona, or don't go at all. |
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On the highway en route to Wickenberg Arizona from the west they've installed several roundabouts. What was immediately evident to me was that they prevent anyone from blowing through the intersections at full speed and causing horrendous collisions.
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mpfrank wrote: On the highway en route to Wickenberg Arizona from the west they've installed several roundabouts. What was immediately evident to me was that they prevent anyone from blowing through the intersections at full speed and causing horrendous collisions. |
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After a major earthquake several years ago, Olympia, WA had to reconstruct a number of boulevards and bridges. They took advantage of the situation by installing a number of roundabouts. They have worked out fine and most everybody likes them. We have a couple in Oregon City, but they take up more room than a 4-way intersection and are hard to retrofit. No one has tried the mini-roundabouts around here.
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Syd wrote: It's 8.7 miles from the Village of Oak Creek, a settlement outside Sedona, to Sedona. The state installed 11 roundabouts. It takes nearly an hour to travel that 8.7 miles on weekends now. Locals that aren't cursed by living on the route take other ways to Sedona, or don't go at all. |
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roundabouts are normal. (except that Magic Roundabout)
try a Hook Turn for weirdness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook_turn Hook Turn
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8.7 mph? That's about the same as inner London (UK). Watch out for Sedona instituting a congestion charge...
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They've become 'trendy' in the suburbs around the twin cities. I'm guessing the Gubment subsidized a bunch of them the past 5 years. The suburbs are competing to see who can get more. Unfortunately they've replaced perfectly reasonable intersections and we now have many opportunities for some putz to either stop as they enter or try to run you out of the circle.
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There are several roundabouts not too far from me, and the number slowly increases. I'm not a fan, because I can see that most of the other drivers spend most of their time in them in a state of mini-panic, so they probably aren't paying attention to anyone not in a large vehicle. Though I will admit, when there's no traffic around at all, it is fun to lean a little more than necessary and roll out the other end just a little bit too fast.
I asked a local cop a while back what effect the roundabouts were actually having on traffic. He told me that while the number of accidents had increased at the converted intersections, the speed and severity of them dropped significantly. I suppose that's a reasonable trade-off. |
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Syd wrote: When the state of Arizona was rebuilding AZ179, which runs from I-17 to Sedona, AZ, the state decided to replace all traffic lights with roundabouts. The idea, they posted, was to keep traffic moving, but at a lower speed. It's 8.7 miles from the Village of Oak Creek, a settlement outside Sedona, to Sedona. The state installed 11 roundabouts. It takes nearly an hour to travel that 8.7 miles on weekends now. Locals that aren't cursed by living on the route take other ways to Sedona, or don't go at all. |
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jess wrote: Oh dear. There's a "Wild West" restaurant near there. Looks like some vague interpretation of "American" food, whatever that is. https://goo.gl/maps/zU8nJaJxDmjuHvm97 |
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jess wrote: Are they roundabouts or traffic circles? https://www.google.com/maps/place/Arrow+Dr(at+roundabout),+Sedona,+AZ+86336/@34.8478602,-111.7663361,19z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x872da6a8c471dc8b:0xc009d9c11c7b2ed5 Man, I messed that link up. Screenshot.
⚠️ Last edited by az_slynch on UTC; edited 3 times
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Here's an image. Straight ahead is Bell Rock on the horizon, left is a school Jackson brown used to have benefit concerts at. Right 7 miles is where the in-laws had a house. 10 more of these ahead and you reach what we called the Y in Sedona but is now a cross intersection.
Roundabout or traffic circle? |
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az_slynch, you beat me! And jimc, it's not a steady 8.7 mph, it's 10mph stop, 5mph stop, etc.
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Access to my street is via mini-circles. They work well as one only has to yield to one side when entering the intersection in order to turn in that same direction.
We drive on the left, so to turn right at a circle, I need only focus on traffic to the right. once in the circle, I have right of way over the traffic approaching from the left. There is a city in the Free State province nicknamed "Circle City" as every main intersection is a traffic circle without traffic lights. |
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Syd wrote: Here's an image. Straight ahead is Bell Rock on the horizon, left is a school Jackson brown used to have benefit concerts at. Right 7 miles is where the in-laws had a house. 10 more of these ahead and you reach what we called the Y in Sedona but is now a cross intersection. Roundabout or traffic circle? |
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jess wrote: After all, if there's no stop sign, you can just go through at full speed, right? RIGHT?!? |
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Topolino wrote: In my area, mini-roundabouts often involve contrarians who enter in the wrong direction. Quite unnerving. I still prefer them to 4-way stops. I'll give you an example .... when you turn left at the center of a traffic light there are still many drivers who, instead of leaving you on their right, cross you. And they pissed off with me! |
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I had the chance to ask a Ph.D. traffic engineer whether roundabouts were more efficient that stoplights. He said unequivocally yes, the traffic flows much more efficiently with roundabouts.
He said our perception is that roundabouts are less efficient because as drivers, we have more cognitive load (our brains have to be busier) when traversing roundabouts, whereas with stoplights we can relax and disengage. |
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shc wrote: I had the chance to ask a Ph.D. traffic engineer whether roundabouts were more efficient that stoplights. He said unequivocally yes, the traffic flows much more efficiently with roundabouts. He said our perception is that roundabouts are less efficient because as drivers, we have more cognitive load (our brains have to be busier) when traversing roundabouts, whereas with stoplights we can relax and disengage. |
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steelbytes wrote: roundabouts are normal. (except that Magic Roundabout) try a Hook Turn for weirdness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook_turn There has been as along as I can remember a round about coming into Breckenridge on Hwy 9 from I-70. Problem is that not only is it a pretty small diameter but it is sloped wrong. While not so bad in a car on a bike it just feels damned weird as it wants to sling you out instead of around. Get behind a delivery truck and you better take your foot off the gas or you'll run up its back as they creep around. Fortunately most of the truckers know to take the other route through town that doesn't have the tiny circle. The new circle they've installed on the other route is a decent size and properly sized for the traffic it gets. Two intersections on 9 have been replaced in the last few years with roundabouts. I'm not really sure the one closest to the interstate is an improvement in traffic flow but the one in the middle of the town's commercial route is for everyone except pedestrians. |
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Syd wrote: We call them roundabouts. Traffic circles of a small-ish diameter, so small that deliver trucks run over the curbs to get around them. |
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Roundabouts are becoming more popular in my area of central PA. I LOVE them-- no more waiting at lights! They seem to like putting them at what were previously dangerous intersections, with poor visibility, etc. HUGE improvement!
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For the same reason the US and two other 3rd world countries are the sole survivors not using the Metric System. In my part of Metro Denver, there are a handful of roundabouts with stop signs on each corner. I really don't understand the point of this.
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