Modern Vespa

First-time poster, not-so-long-time lurker...

I recently acquired my first scooter, a 1965 VNB6 (ODO ~5600), a failed restoration. The paint and bodywork were completed, but the engine, wiring, etc., were left as is. My wife was excited after the purchase and stated she wants us to be able to ride together on it and, if she likes it, to get a second scooter. If that isn't a stamp of approval to upgrade the 125cc to a 177cc while adding a few bells and whistles, I don't know what is.

Overall goal:
I want something that is reliable for traveling up and down the steep hills of the mountain west, can get me to and from work (2.4 miles each way), and the occasional tooling around town with my wife on the back to run quick errands/get coffee. Also, if it just so happens that the scooter could make it to the 60/8 club, I wouldn't be upset one bit.

The current state of things:
The engine was rust seized, and the stator plate looks water damaged. Based on opening the engine, I would guess I am the first to do so as all the seals were original and no tool marks to be found on the case or elsewhere. I didn't find any other indications of water in the case or damage from running the engine lean/internal component failure. Opening the engine made me a bit giddy to do a complete rebuild because why not extend this project over the entire winter and blow up the budget as soon as possible.

I am hoping people can provide a newbie some guidance before I go buying the wrong things. I have tried to do my homework a bit by reviewing engine rebuilds shared by others. However, I am stuck in the analysis paralysis phase since some are a few years old or missing exact part details.

What I would like to do:

1. Replace all seals, bearings, etc., with a rebuild kit (https://www.scootermercato.com/REBUILDKIT-VNBLATE).

2. Upgrade the cylinder to a 177cc - I have access to a Malossi 3-port 177cc cylinder and piston (https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Cylinders/M-3117676_2). Is this useable as a "bolt-on" despite being 3-port? Most others I have seen have gone with a 2-port Pinasco (https://www.scootermercato.com/25030804).

3. Crankshaft - Is this something I should also be replacing? The stock on looks good but I have seen others substitute theirs out. Opinion's here would be greatly appreciated.

4. Switch to Electronic ignition - Thinking of going with the Vape Road (https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/ignition-sip-performance-by-vape-road_510061RA).

5. Replace damaged wiring loom - SIP wire loom (would skip adding bar end indicators) (https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/wiring-loom-sip-conversion-to-e-ignition-ducati-sip-performance-vape-ac_86135257).

6. Switch to Dell'orto/Spaco SI 24/24 E carborator (https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/carburettor-dell-orto-spaco-si-2424e_40000000). I saw this got rid of some issues with qasooter's VNB5 rebuild.

7. Upgrade exhaust. I am a bit torn here between a Piaggio exhaust with catalyzer (https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/exhaust-piaggio_PI4723R5) or a SIP Road 150 (https://www.scootermercato.com/SIPROAD-150). Is the Piaggio exhaust with catalyzer that much better for the environment? If it is better for the environment and won't dramatically impact performance, I am all for it. If it would make above performance modifications significantly weaker, then not so much due to the limited number of miles the scoot would travel in any given day.

8. Switch out the cable set - Do folks have opinions on the difference between Performace cable sets and standard?

Thank you, scooter hivemind, for your time and for helping out! As things move forward, I am happy to post pictures of the progression.

Welcome!

It sounds like you've got a pretty well thought out plan and all the information you need to execute on it is definitely in here, especially using the search function.

To answer your specific questions... Yup. This is mandatory for an engine in this state. You'll need to go with the 2-port because your motor only has two ports. The Pinasco is a solid option (and pretty much the only option unless you want to add a third port to your motor, which is probably more work than you're looking for). I have a 2-port version on my VBB and a 3-port on my SprintV and if they can withstand what I do to motors, it'll be fine for your purposes. Yes, you'll need to because the big end bearing (the one between the crank webs) is most likely shot.

Go for a 60mm crank while you're upgrading. It'll give you a few more cc's and slightly better overall performance. Yup. And go for 12v so you can actually see where you're going at night. Yes. I've found that adding turn signals is a wise decision, especially on a Daily Rider, but not something you have to commit one way or the other up front. You'll need (as opposed to just want) to port and flow the airbox and intake if you do this. You'll also need to open up the ports into the motor.

You'll also want to increase the intake timing, so buy a cut crank when you replace the crank to help with that.

If you're not ready to fire up your Dremel and get grindin', I'd say just stick with a 20/20. Get the SIP Road. If you get the catalyzed exhaust, you just wasted money on all the other upgrades. It's a two-stroke. It's spraying pollution all over the place even when it's living its cleanest life, so just accept it and move on. I've used both and honestly can't tell the difference. Getting the runs straight and making sure the lengths are correct will make a much bigger difference than whether or not the cable has a teflon lining it it.

Good luck!

Post some pictures. We love pictures around here

First, a huge thank you to chanlderman for the now months old advice. I have been putting it to good use. A few purchases, a few more, and far too much time spent reading forums I was able to get everything together. I learned a ton following others that are far better at taking pictures than I am capable of.

Last weekend, I kicked the engine over for the first time (success!). To get the SIP pipe to sit correctly engine stand modifications are necessary. That will be this weekend's project. Then comes the fun of playing with the idle, jetting, and mixing. This is the 2-stroke engine and first carb I have ever had joy of working with so I am a total novice in this arena.

I believe the stock jetting for the 24/24 carb is (please correct me here if I am off):
idle jet: 50/100
main jet stack:
air jet: 120
mixer: BE4
main jet: 110

I am specifically looking for feedback from those that can help be understand the impact of altitude. I am located at ~4500 feet and would like to ride into the mountains up to ~8500 ft. Is there a starting point that I should be using that is different than the stock configuration? Already posted on the local forum and am waiting for feedback there as well.

Pictures of the engine-stand will be posted after the weekend, and video if I can manage.

First off, that jetting seems *really* rich for your motor, other than the main jet, and even that is pretty rich with the 120 AC. Did you pressure test the motor to make sure you don't have any air leaks?

I'd have expected you to start with something like a 140/BE3/120, then walk the main down until it's no longer bogging and spluttering at WOT.

I'm not an expert on altitude, but in general, higher altitude requires a leaner setup to keep things in balance.

Hopefully some other folks on here can provide their experience with higher altitude riding, or you can start another thread to specific to the topic and see who chimes in.

my kinda sorta guideline on altitude jetting is that I'll drop a point for a mile and then a point for every 2K after that.

I'm basically at sea level and when I rode in Tahoe I went from a 138 to a 135* and it ran just fine and dandy.



*38mm carb, different motor, different tune, and I tend to jet fat from the start.

That is the stock jetting for a 24.24G, as was fitted to the T5, not a 24.24E, as was fitted to the P200. I have heard of people running a 24.24G on a 177 kit, but have no experience with that setup myself. Hopefully, someone who has done it can weigh in.