@dooglas avatar
UTC

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@dooglas avatar
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UTC quote
booger wrote:
You sure about that Miguel? Ever see a lithium battery fire before? They burn FOR EVER, and resist efforts to extinguish. Like a magnesium fire if you've ever seen one, but worse.
The real question is whether you ever saw one before. I have a Nissan LEAF. Owned one for 7 years. Not only has mine not ever burst into flame, but there has never been a battery fire involving a LEAF. Yes, there have been a handful with Teslas and a few with Chevy Bolts (hence a battery recall). But even there, the actual numbers are very small. Consider the number of fires which occur with gasoline vehicles, this is probably not something either you or California need to worry about very much.
@attila avatar
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UTC quote
It's more dangerous if it catches fire in your phone, you put it on your chest or in your ass pocket ... it hurts if your buttock catches fire.
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UTC quote
ScooterRaton wrote:
They'll have to pry my cold hand off my two stroke throttle
You must be really into your lawnmowers in Florida. Fortunately for you? CA public policy doesn't affect you in the least. Mow on comrade!
UTC

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UTC quote
Dooglas wrote:
The real question is whether you ever saw one before. I have a Nissan LEAF. Owned one for 7 years. Not only has mine not ever burst into flame, but there has never been a battery fire involving a LEAF. Yes, there have been a handful with Teslas and a few with Chevy Bolts (hence a battery recall). But even there, the actual numbers are very small. Consider the number of fires which occur with gasoline vehicles, this is probably not something either you or California need to worry about very much.
Come on Douglas, try comparing apples to apples. Your large EV batts will more than likely be thoroughly QC'd, matched, vetted batts. For the most part, safe. HOW EVER.

Batteries intended to power lawnmowers & hedge trimmers will certainly not be held to the same standard. So if CA has a Harbor Freight tools for example, they will be selling cheaply made lithium battery powered versions of power yard tools. These batteries are cheeeeeeeep man.

Also, lithium batteries typically go up when impacted. I know because I have an RC car that went up after a hard jump, 'twas the battery that dunnit. Tis true that I've not heard of a Leaf battery or any of those EV batts being a problem, all I know is I have to keep my Li-Pos in a firebox just in case they decide to explode.

I get it, you bought a Leaf and you are thoroughly convinced of the superiority of your reduced carbon footprint. HOW EVER. Just because you haven't experienced a go up, doesn't mean that you won't. Famous Last Words is what they call it. Also, the reason you never heard of any Leafs going up might have something to do with the sales figures for that car. They simply have not sold as well as the others, that have experienced fires.

So yeah, I've seen some lithium fires. Wonder what made you automatically assume I haven't? Because you bought a Leaf and you're in love with it? Facepalm emoticon

hope you have a detached garage
@dooglas avatar
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@dooglas avatar
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UTC quote
booger wrote:
I get it, you bought a Leaf and you are thoroughly convinced of the superiority of your reduced carbon footprint. HOW EVER. Just because you haven't experienced a go up, doesn't mean that you won't. Famous Last Words is what they call it. Also, the reason you never heard of any Leafs going up might have something to do with the sales figures for that car. They simply have not sold as well as the others, that have experienced fires.
Actually I'd say you are the one that doesn't quite get it. Fine to have opinions, but lets match up statements with actual numbers. Worldwide sales on the LEAF were at 519,000 units as of earlier this year. The LEAF was the best selling EV worldwide through the end of 2019. It has since been passed in total sales only by the Tesla 3. And as I said, no battery fires period.

Now, if you are trying to focus in on battery powered lawnmowers. I'm listening. I have one. Works fine, no problems. Do you have any actual information regarding fires in the battery packs of battery powered lawnmowers?
@madison_sully avatar
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UTC quote
booger wrote:
Come on Douglas, try comparing apples to apples. Your large EV batts will more than likely be thoroughly QC'd, matched, vetted batts. For the most part, safe. HOW EVER.

Batteries intended to power lawnmowers & hedge trimmers will certainly not be held to the same standard. So if CA has a Harbor Freight tools for example, they will be selling cheaply made lithium battery powered versions of power yard tools. These batteries are cheeeeeeeep man.

Also, lithium batteries typically go up when impacted. I know because I have an RC car that went up after a hard jump, 'twas the battery that dunnit. Tis true that I've not heard of a Leaf battery or any of those EV batts being a problem, all I know is I have to keep my Li-Pos in a firebox just in case they decide to explode.

I get it, you bought a Leaf and you are thoroughly convinced of the superiority of your reduced carbon footprint. HOW EVER. Just because you haven't experienced a go up, doesn't mean that you won't. Famous Last Words is what they call it. Also, the reason you never heard of any Leafs going up might have something to do with the sales figures for that car. They simply have not sold as well as the others, that have experienced fires.

So yeah, I've seen some lithium fires. Wonder what made you automatically assume I haven't? Because you bought a Leaf and you're in love with it? Facepalm emoticon

hope you have a detached garage
I get it, you bought an RC car, and you are thoroughly convinced of the inferiority of the battery because of your singular experience. HOW EVER. Just because you have experienced a go up, doesn't mean that the rest of the world will. Famous last words as they call it.
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UTC

Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
And if we want to be fair how many cars with IC engines have caught fire or caused a house to burn down or have killed people because they were not smart enough to not leave car running in the attached garage?
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UTC quote
booger wrote:
Come on Douglas, try comparing apples to apples. Your large EV batts will more than likely be thoroughly QC'd, matched, vetted batts. For the most part, safe. HOW EVER.

Batteries intended to power lawnmowers & hedge trimmers will certainly not be held to the same standard. So if CA has a Harbor Freight tools for example, they will be selling cheaply made lithium battery powered versions of power yard tools. These batteries are cheeeeeeeep man.

Also, lithium batteries typically go up when impacted. I know because I have an RC car that went up after a hard jump, 'twas the battery that dunnit. Tis true that I've not heard of a Leaf battery or any of those EV batts being a problem, all I know is I have to keep my Li-Pos in a firebox just in case they decide to explode.

I get it, you bought a Leaf and you are thoroughly convinced of the superiority of your reduced carbon footprint. HOW EVER. Just because you haven't experienced a go up, doesn't mean that you won't. Famous Last Words is what they call it. Also, the reason you never heard of any Leafs going up might have something to do with the sales figures for that car. They simply have not sold as well as the others, that have experienced fires.

So yeah, I've seen some lithium fires. Wonder what made you automatically assume I haven't? Because you bought a Leaf and you're in love with it? Facepalm emoticon
More FUD.
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UTC quote
I think we found the new "oil thread" with battery vs internal combustion.
⚠️ Last edited by xantufrog on UTC; edited 1 time
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Attila wrote:
Don't tell me about agricultural diesel, the price per liter in my area has risen to one euro. Really too much for those who use it for work.
I don't know what is different about agricultural diesel in Italy, but in the US, it is significantly cheaper, and it has higher sulfer than diesel for road vehicles. You are not allowed to use it on the roads in passenger cars or trucks. And you can tell whenever you get behind someone on the road who is using it.
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I live in California, I pay taxes here, and I buy gasoline here. Premium is now over $5.00 a gallon, and yet I still live here. And I think it's worthwhile to ban gasoline powered powered tools. Harbor Freight has been selling lithium battery powered hand tools here and there certainly has not been a rash of fires from their stuff. All the emotional ranting against the ideas for change and against the reality of environmental decay won't make a bit of difference - the future keeps on coming at us and "you better start swimming or you'll sink like a stone."
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eeeee bip
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UTC quote
To be fair , Aston Martins, Ferrari, Ranger Rovers and Jaguars catch fire more often than most but they don't get recalled.

I can't think why.
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Motovista wrote:
I don't know what is different about agricultural diesel in Italy, but in the US, it is significantly cheaper, and it has higher sulfer than diesel for road vehicles. You are not allowed to use it on the roads in passenger cars or trucks. And you can tell whenever you get behind someone on the road who is using it.
It only changes the color and it is forbidden to use it on cars that are also in Italy, there is a prison sentence for those who do it but I have always had LPG cars because it costs less.
PS: What does FUD mean?
@attila avatar
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Bill Dog wrote:
To be fair , Aston Martins, Ferrari, Ranger Rovers and Jaguars catch fire more often than most but they don't get recalled.

I can't think why.
Perhaps because those who have them are so rich that they buy first and buy another one.
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UTC quote
Attila wrote:
PS: What does FUD mean?
Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.
Wikipedia wrote:
Fear, uncertainty, and doubt (often shortened to FUD) is a propaganda tactic used in sales, marketing, public relations, politics, polling and cults. FUD is generally a strategy to influence perception by disseminating negative and dubious or false information and a manifestation of the appeal to fear.
FUD is an insidious kind of bullshit spread by people with an agenda. There are at least three active threads on MV right now that are attracting a lot of FUD, and the people disseminating that FUD are about to have their leashes shortened.
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UTC quote
Ah...Your moderator metaphors are a lot of fun ... and effective.
Thanks for the explanation.
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UTC quote
Attila wrote:
It only changes the color and it is forbidden to use it on cars that are also in Italy, there is a prison sentence for those who do it but I have always had LPG cars because it costs less.
PS: What does FUD mean?
In the USA I think the biggest difference between "Ag Diesel/Non-Road Diesel" and "Road Diesel" is that the Non-Road Diesel has red dye in it. The reason for the red dye is to let inspectors know you are cheating, see there is special tax on the Road Diesel.

Not 100% sure but think the same goes for home heating fuel oil. Would need to do some investigation about the sulfur levels of the various fuel oils. I know that changed at some point years back.

Anyone wanting to do some reading could start with this link:
https://hbsteeleoil.com/key-differences-of-heating-oil-off-road-diesel-fuel-on-road-diesel-fuel-in-pennsylvania/
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UTC quote
Let's all go back in time here, or at least us USA residents, to the summer of 1973…. I had a new driver's license and a long drive to visit parents or grandparents that summer and had to make sure someone had GAS for me to be able to come home… not because of my finances but because of the Oil Embargo. My government clearly stated we would Never be held hostage to foreign oil embargoes again and we would invest in renewable energy. My heart soared, yes, a Colorado back to nature hippy kid, and we had the start of a brighter and better future.
But the oil embargo ended and all those big $$ guys, many of them politicians or with strings controlling politicians ended all our plans and investing into renewal energy. Yes, I am still pissed about that, and have worked to keep my carbon foot print small as I could.
And the solar panels finally went on my roof, today the electrical crew will finish their part and I will have working solar. Long wait to achieve this but it's progress in small town central Illinois. And I save a lot of gas riding those Vespa things!
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maggiegirl wrote:
My heart soared, yes, a Colorado back to nature hippy kid...


Have you really been a hippy? Oh! I didn't think I'd meet one ... How many will there be in this forum? I mean the ones with the headband, the tunic, the sandals ... in short, like in Jesus Christ Superstar.
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UTC quote
Attila wrote:
Have you really been a hippy? Oh! I didn't think I'd meet one ... How many will there be in this forum? I mean the ones with the headband, the tunic, the sandals ... in short, like in Jesus Christ Superstar.
I have met countless former-hippies, both on MV and through my life. It's rare to meet someone who still dresses like a classic hippy, except at costume parties. But many former-hippies still have identifiable sensibilities.
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UTC quote
Attila wrote:


Have you really been a hippy? Oh! I didn't think I'd meet one ... How many will there be in this forum? I mean the ones with the headband, the tunic, the sandals ... in short, like in Jesus Christ Superstar.
Being a long haired hippy was my first careers. At the moment I'm wearing my hair down to my shoulder blades. I keep telling Ms Miguel that I'm trying to decide if it's just the aging rock-star look or if I'm reverting back to my hippy roots.

Miguel
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UTC quote
jess wrote:
I have met countless former-hippies, both on MV and through my life. It's rare to meet someone who still dresses like a classic hippy, except at costume parties. But many former-hippies still have identifiable sensibilities.
My wife is reverting back to dirt foot hippie mode. She has a couple pairs of low cut bell bottoms, wears Birks when she wears shoes at all and has a lot of those flowy blouses. She even stole some of the shirts I tie died last year.

She does still bathe regularly at least.
⚠️ Last edited by stickyfrog on UTC; edited 1 time
@attila avatar
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@seamus26 avatar
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UTC quote
stickyfrog wrote:
She does still bath regularly at least.
Man, you do know that regular bathing is a tool of the establishment, don't you? Hot water applied to your body on a daily basis totally messes up your chakra alignment.
@seamus26 avatar
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UTC quote
jess wrote:
Okay, fair, and I am always bummed when I buy into a system and then the system becomes obsolete or goes away. But they came out with the 20V batteries in 2011. A decade ago.

(I have a whole bunch of 20V and related 60V batteries and tools that use them, and they are leaps and bounds better than the 18V system).
I'm still shaking my fist at Apple for doing away with my legacy ports in favor of USB.

Jerks.
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seamus26 wrote:
Man, you do know that regular bathing is a tool of the establishment, don't you? Hot water applied to your body on a daily basis totally messes up your chakra alignment.
She compensates her alignment problems with these stones by our Zen koi pond.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@swiss1939 avatar
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UTC quote
Whenever I finally get my electric cybertruck, it will be trailering my vintage two stroke Vespas for years/decades if possible. Believing in progress does not preclude an appreciation for old technology and knee jerk reactions to said progress are tiring.

As long as it's legal, I'll keep riding them. When it becomes illegal, I understand the benefit to society and accept it. My current truck is way more pollution than the scooters based on usage, hence the transition to cybertruck when it becomes available.

Whenever they eventually force me to go fully ev, I will ride electric motorcycles. By that time I'll be too old to want to bother wrenching regularly anymore, and the anti ev grumps will be long gone.

Think of the decades since Cali went hard core on emissions standards, and how little the rest of the country has progressed in that time. This transition is not happening overnight despite the fear and grumbling.
⚠️ Last edited by swiss1939 on UTC; edited 1 time
@seamus26 avatar
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UTC quote
stickyfrog wrote:
She compensates her alignment problems with these stones by our Zen koi pond.
Well ... ok then. I am no longer concerned.
swiss1939 wrote:
Whenever I finally get my electric cybertruck, it will be trailering my vintage two stroke Vespas for years/decades if possible. Believing in progress does not preclude an appreciation for old technology and knee jerk reactions to said progress are tiring.

As long as it's legal, I'll keep riding them. When it becomes illegal, I understand the benefit to society and accept it. My current truck is way more pollution than the scooters based on usage, hence the transition to cybertruck when it becomes available.

Whenever they eventually force me to go fully ev, I will ride electric motorcycles. By that time I'll be too old to want to bother wrenching regularly anymore, and the anti ev grumps will be long gone.
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I guess I also qualify for the aging hippie status too. Now when I go back to my roots, everything comes out gray hair everywhere except where I want it. I still believe in the future and maybe one day I'll just explode in a flash of light and become part of it forever. Who knows? Meanwhile, struggling to hold on to the past is just another result of FUD, and at age 75 I'm just about grown out of that. Bring it on!
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Molto Verboso
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A hippie selling soap:

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swiss1939 wrote:
Whenever I finally get my electric cybertruck, it will be trailering my vintage two stroke Vespas for years/decades if possible. Believing in progress does not preclude an appreciation for old technology and knee jerk reactions to said progress are tiring.

As long as it's legal, I'll keep riding them. When it becomes illegal, I understand the benefit to society and accept it. My current truck is way more pollution than the scooters based on usage, hence the transition to cybertruck when it becomes available.

Whenever they eventually force me to go fully ev, I will ride electric motorcycles. By that time I'll be too old to want to bother wrenching regularly anymore, and the anti ev grumps will be long gone.

Think of the decades since Cali went hard core on emissions standards, and how little the rest of the country has progressed in that time. This transition is not happening overnight despite the fear and grumbling.
Indeed. The transition to cleaner vehicles has been pretty slow and hardly traumatic. And I don't see anyone hard at work trying to ban the driving of Model T Fords at classic car rallys.
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In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
UTC quote
seamus26 wrote:
Well ... ok then. I am no longer concerned.

My oldest vinyl ... bought when I was 15 and I used it to pick up girls
@bobo avatar
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Ossessionato
'70 Super 150, Medley 150S, '23 Ducati Monster SP
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2533
Location: Sydney, Australia
 
Ossessionato
@bobo avatar
'70 Super 150, Medley 150S, '23 Ducati Monster SP
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2533
Location: Sydney, Australia
UTC quote
jess wrote:
Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.



FUD is an insidious kind of bullshit spread by people with an agenda. There are at least three active threads on MV right now that are attracting a lot of FUD, and the people disseminating that FUD are about to have their leashes shortened.
Yep that potato salad thread is out of control
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