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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Harleys sold in Europe are assembled in Thailand. This avoids EU tariffs in US bikes.
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UTC quote
Topolino wrote:
Harleys sold in Europe are assembled in Thailand. This avoids EU tariffs in US bikes.
From the article.
Quote:
On the other side of the fence, Harley previously attempted to skirt the E.U. tariffs by moving production to Thailand in May, 2018. While that move avoided fees for some time, it didn't bring manufacturing to the E.U., prompting the government to revoke the Harley's Binding Origin Information (BOI) status and impose higher taxes earlier this year.
Quote:
"It is absolutely clear that relocating production in order to avoid punitive tariffs is not acceptable," stated E.U. Parliament Trade Committee Chairman Bernd Lange. "Such attempts are also clearly illegal under European law (Customs Code, Article 59, and Implementation Act of 2015, Article 33), and Harley-Davidson has quite openly described the (Thailand) relocation as a means 'to avoid the tariff burden' in official reports."
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UTC quote
The trade war does not benefit anyone.
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Triumph Bonneville 2022, Triumph Street Scrambler 2018 (sold), Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
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UTC quote
As an European, can't really see that HD or Indian are in a price war.
Those are mostly niche bikes in European countries, more at some than the others.

I'll guess a much bigger topic than prices among HD friends has been the temporary drop of the Sportster from the EU range, due to emission regulations.

Sportster was HD's best selling bike here.... and as it was hard to objectively compare to other bikes at the market, I'll guess the price was just fine for those who wished to buy a Sportster.

Of course, If HD would be willing to sell their new ADV bike with a significantly smaller price tag than BMW GS.. and re-design the front end, at least for the European taste , that could create a minor price pressure at least...so we could at least get cheaper BMWs out from it
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UTC quote
Harley has a great history in Poland. The homologation minimum 50 of their highly successful VR1000 super bikes you all remember fondly were sold there to get around emission standards being reasonable everywhere else.
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UTC quote
And where is the cunning?
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UTC quote
znomit wrote:
Harley has a great history in Poland. The homologation minimum 50 of their highly successful VR1000 super bikes you all remember fondly were sold there to get around emission standards being reasonable everywhere else.
I don't have any fond memories of Harley. I have never owned one but have ridden many and delivered many for friends. The main issue has always been that of quality and reliability having been left by the roadside too many times to count by those bikes. Even two years ago one of our riding group bought a new 1200 sportster which after one year had so many problems, needed so many number plate brackets and shook it's riders teeth out. He rightly got rid. Frankly it was an appalling bike. We seem to see a lot of them with major electrical trouble too. New looms often required on near new bikes. They look nice though!
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UTC quote
Indian outsmarts Harley again... really? its not that hard.

They've been riding a wave of cult popularity for ages but as their demographic ages and gives up motorcycles they seem to be at a loss as to what to do about it.
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UTC quote
Fritz Katzenjammer wrote:
Indian outsmarts Harley again... really? its not that hard.

They've been riding a wave of cult popularity for ages but as their demographic ages and gives up motorcycles they seem to be at a loss as to what to do about it.
Sounds about right.

On the Harley Davidson front Ryanf9 has done a few great videos.


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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
When I went to the Americade Rally Indian had a tractor trailer full of models on display for demo rides. Harley wasn't even there.
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UTC quote
Stromrider wrote:
I don't have any fond memories of Harley. I have never owned one but have ridden many and delivered many for friends. The main issue has always been that of quality and reliability having been left by the roadside too many times to count by those bikes.
My understanding is that 80% of all Harleys ever built are still on the road - the other 20% made it home under their own power.
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UTC quote
Fritz Katzenjammer wrote:
Indian outsmarts Harley again... really? its not that hard.

They've been riding a wave of cult popularity for ages but as their demographic ages and gives up motorcycles they seem to be at a loss as to what to do about it.
But... Indian's marketing the same "ride a classic bike" hype as Harley. You can hardly distinguish their marketing. Each one trying to look more 'classic' than the other. I like them both. 'won't pay for either.

BTW; the comment from the EU about 'moving manufacturing to avoid tariffs is illegal'. I love the irony of the statement! What it means is: you must move your manufacturing here to avoid tariffs!
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UTC quote
znomit wrote:
Harley has a great history in Poland. The homologation minimum 50 of their highly successful VR1000 super bikes you all remember fondly were sold there to get around emission standards being reasonable everywhere else.
That would be a lot of fun to ride.
If you want to talk about large, unreliable bikes that are stuck in the past, Moto Guzzi is what the future of HD might look like. Indian really is Polaris buying the rights to the name of an old, long gone manufacturer and slapping it on whatever they think it will sell. It's sort of like QJ and Binelli, or the company in Oregon making Nortons, only slightly less disingenuous. It would be a welcome change if the goal of a new US manufacturer was to make a bigger cake. Instead, they focus on taking part of Harley's slice.
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Motovista wrote:
Instead, they focus on taking part of Harley's slice.
The history of the two brands teaches us that they have always been rivals and even fiercely, at least in the first thirty years. All that's missing now is someone to resurrect Henderson, Xcelsior, Flying Merkel and others from the grave.... before the usual chinese manufacturers do.
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Dooglas wrote:
My understanding is that 80% of all Harleys ever built are still on the road - the other 20% made it home under their own power.
ROFL emoticon ROFL emoticon So true I think! And it's sad because as mentioned above, they look so good. At bike night it surprises me just how many Harleys turn up with real mean looking guys on them. In fact, mostly all the guy with Harleys are no different to me and we chat regularly. The woes about their bikes that they tell me about do not inspire me to ever buy one. But one thing seems common amongst them all; they simply don't ride their bikes properly or very often. Most only manage 1000 miles per year. One of the guys asked how many miles I do each year and he said what, on a scooter!! That year I had cover only 11,000 miles. He'd managed under 1000 miles. So really over here most seem to use them as show bikes for the occasional pootle around.
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That's right, the scooter takes you to do more miles with ease ... so you are not aware of it and you don't care, the scooter is "also" designed to cover a lot of distance.
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Stromrider wrote:
ROFL emoticon ROFL emoticon So true I think! And it's sad because as mentioned above, they look so good. At bike night it surprises me just how many Harleys turn up with real mean looking guys on them. In fact, mostly all the guy with Harleys are no different to me and we chat regularly. The woes about their bikes that they tell me about do not inspire me to ever buy one. But one thing seems common amongst them all; they simply don't ride their bikes properly or very often. Most only manage 1000 miles per year. One of the guys asked how many miles I do each year and he said what, on a scooter!! That year I had cover only 11,000 miles. He'd managed under 1000 miles. So really over here most seem to use them as show bikes for the occasional pootle around.
I was approached by a Harley guy in a parking lot one day. He had taken an interest in my MP3 500 and wanted to know about it. We talked for a while and got around to highway cruising, I told him I'd recently had the bike out on the expressway doing a relaxed 135kph with my wife dozing on the back and stated that it felt like it could do it all day. His reply was "Oh, mine wouldn't do that"

He had a beautiful full touring rig with all the bells and whistles. Likely a $35,000 ride. Friggin tragic.

Harley should be ashamed of their product.
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UTC quote
Klingon sparrowhawk vs Galaxy-class vessel. Guzzi Gal, where are you?
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Hooked
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UTC quote
Seriously folks, Harley bashing? I get it, they are an easy target to poke at, but some of you are delusional.
Harley has had it's share of quality issues in the past, but their reliability on new models is actually quite good. When 9 out of 10 bikes you see on the highway are Harleys, simple math tells you that you are going to see more and hear more about broken Harleys.

They are not for everyone and for every style of riding, but what they do well is cruise the highway. If someone tells you they can't ride all day at 135 kph (84mph) in comfort on a full dresser it's not the bikes fault. Look at the number of Iron butt rally finishers by brand, Harley 58. Vespa 1

Full disclosure, I work as an electrical maintenance technician at the Harley factory in York, Pa. I'm certainly not a Harley fanboy. Out of the 5 bikes in my garage, 2 are Vespas, 1 KTM, 1 BMW, and 1 Yamaha. I don't own a Harley because they don't compete in a category that interests me. That may change in the future with the new Pan America.
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UTC quote
2wheelsDan wrote:
Seriously folks, Harley bashing? I get it, they are an easy target to poke at, but some of you are delusional.
Harley has had it's share of quality issues in the past, but their reliability on new models is actually quite good. When 9 out of 10 bikes you see on the highway are Harleys, simple math tells you that you are going to see more and hear more about broken Harleys.

They are not for everyone and for every style of riding, but what they do well is cruise the highway. If someone tells you they can't ride all day at 135 kph (84mph) in comfort on a full dresser it's not the bikes fault. Look at the number of Iron butt rally finishers by brand, Harley 58. Vespa 1

Full disclosure, I work as an electrical maintenance technician at the Harley factory in York, Pa. I'm certainly not a Harley fanboy. Out of the 5 bikes in my garage, 2 are Vespas, 1 KTM, 1 BMW, and 1 Yamaha. I don't own a Harley because they don't compete in a category that interests me. That may change in the future with the new Pan America.
Yes Harley have improved, but we don't see too much evidence of that over here. Harley are such a niche market in the UK so we don't see that many on the road compared to other makes either. Full disclosure: I'm an ex-tech and have seen just how bad the issues can be with some of their new bikes. I still like them but wouldn't buy one. Not Harley bashing just saying how I've found them to be.
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UTC quote
I will tell you that in my area it is easier to meet a Harley than a Vespa ...
How strange we Italians are, right?
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Molto Verboso
ET3 & PX150 & GTS 300 Super Sport MY23 & Yamaha Neo's electric
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UTC quote
I'd say 50:50 here. (Unless it's a rainy day.)
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