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https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/21/entertainment/rust-film-accident/index.html

I can't imagine what he must be going through now as well as the rest of the crew and the family of the deceased.

I remember the Brandon Lee incident and this is easily as bad or worse.

The accounting side of my business works with the industry and they are usually very careful and incidents not all that common. We are always notified about an incident on set and usually they are nothing more than a sprain etc. Last one was someone got a piece of nacho in their eye while eating on set. This.. man... what a terrible tragedy.
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When I load my blanking gun, I always check that the bullets are only with the explosive capsule.
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There is more to this yet to come but it sounds like proper firearm protocol was not being followed.
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stickyfrog wrote:
There is more to this yet to come but it sounds like proper firearm protocol was not being followed.
The Crow (Brandon Lee) was also killed in a similar scene accident; in the cinema there are deaths among the stuntmen but also due to the unpreparedness of the stage staff which is crucial.
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Attila wrote:
The Crow (Brandon Lee) was also killed in a similar scene accident; in the cinema there are deaths among the stuntmen but also due to the unpreparedness of the stage staff which is crucial.
True. I remember the Brandon Lee accident. As the OP said it will be hard for Alec to recover from this. I read that Michael Massee, the actor who accidently shot Lee, took a year off from acting and never saw The Crow. He also said, 12 years later, that he still had nightmares about the incident.
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Remember Jon Eric Hexum? He was on one of my favorite shows as a kid, "Voyagers". He was filming another show, "Cover Up" (one of my Mom's favorites) when this happened.
Quote:
On October 12, 1984, the cast and crew of Cover Up were filming the seventh episode of the series, "Golden Opportunity", on Stage 17 of the 20th Century Fox lot. One of the scenes filmed that day called for Hexum's character to load bullets into a .44 Magnum handgun, so he was provided with a functional gun and blanks. When the scene did not play as the director wanted it to in the master shot, there was a delay in filming. Hexum became restless and impatient during the delay and began playing around to lighten the mood. He had unloaded all but one (blank) round, spun it, and—simulating Russian roulette—he put the revolver to his right temple and pulled the trigger,[6] apparently unaware of the danger.
[Insert essentially anything here] are dangerous if not handled properly.

I don't particularly like Alec Baldwin, but I would not wish this sort of hurt on anyone.
⚠️ Last edited by seamus26 on UTC; edited 1 time
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Yeah I feel really bad for Alec along with the victims and their families. Imagine the trauma of killing someone by accident, and in such a way where you had so much agency over the accident
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Just a reminder. This story involves a topic (firearms) that is expressly forbidden on MV so lets keep it as a factor of the story but not the focus.
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stickyfrog wrote:
Just a reminder. This story involves a topic (firearms) that is expressly forbidden on MV so lets keep it as a factor of the story but not the focus.
Ok, sorry.
I corrected my post.
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Attila wrote:
Ok, sorry. Correct my post.
No worries. I probably should not have reference them myself since it really is not the focus of the OP's post.
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stickyfrog wrote:
No worries. I probably should not have reference them myself since it really is not the focus of the OP's post.
Instead you are absolutely right, you are a good mod.
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stickyfrog wrote:
Just a reminder. This story involves a topic (firearms) that is expressly forbidden on MV so lets keep it as a factor of the story but not the focus.
Gotcha. Duly noted and edited.
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Very tragic. While this is an extreme example, most people have no idea how dangerous a production set can be even under ideal circumstances. It can be genuinely difficult to meet all the safety protocols, and that's not for lack of trying (and obviously accidents still happen). Having been in the biz myself, I really feel for everyone on the set that day. The majority of folks in TV and film really love their jobs. It's been difficult for all of them lately as it is without adding a terrible accident into the mix.
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I'll be interested to know why the weapon was being aimed toward someone.

Lots more to come I guess.
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Bill Dog wrote:
I'll be interested to know why the weapon was being aimed toward someone.

Lots more to come I guess.
Having experience on independent film sets.. of which this looks to be a lower budget, possibly non-union, independent film that Alec Baldwin took producer role in exchange for small up front pay.

My guess is the director wanted a closeup from directly in front of him of the gun firing.. instead of using a telephoto lens that would allow them to remain further than the required 20 ft away (what i've read is the regulation.. don't know for sure), they left a wide or normal lens on and were probably only 4-5 ft in front of him. Given the nature of lower budget films, they might not have had a safety officer on set to prevent them from setting up this close directly in front. Or they might have had less experienced cheaper non-union safety officer/prop master/armorers or any combination of... who would not have felt confident enough to push back on a directors request to set up a shot like that. I have no information on whether this was union or non-union set, but either way, it will cost someone their job and eventual legal/financial penalties. But this type of low budget film where there is a smaller but actual budget (500k-few million) and a big name actor attached to it, is where things can get higher stress with people being more demanding at the cost of taking risks to get whatever is needed done either for cost saving reasons, or because the big name actor is only available for limited time. This can lead to less experienced crew in riskier situations more so than big budget films and no to very low budget films.

This is all speculation on my part, but based on similar actual experiences I have had (none of which led to something tragic like this thankfully).

Blanks still shoot crap out the front and if close enough can kill as mentioned with those previous events. That is why they have very specific safety rules on how far away from the muzzle you can stand when firing blanks.

Educated guessing aside... we will learn exactly what happened eventually, and in the meantime it is a tragic event for everyone involved. If I were Alec Baldwin, I'd be done.. with everything, and just end up a hermit unable to leave my house.

Read up on the twilight zone incident and John Landis' role directing a helicopter pilot to perform less safe maneuvers which led to the death of Vic Morrow and two child actors, and is the impetus for many of the modern rules regarding safety on sets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Zone_accident
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This is Halyna Hutchins the cinematographer who lost her life. She was reportedly very excited to be working on this project. She has a very interesting history. She leaves behind husband Matthew and son Andros. RIP
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I feel so sorry for everyone who was involved in or witnessed this terrible accident.

Their lives will never be the same again.

As for the families of Halyna Hutchins and Joel Souza, my heart goes out to them.

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It looks like a live round was in the weapon.
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Its crazy. A gun on a set like this should have been disabled from being able to fire an actual cartridge. I imagine that no one was thinking gun-safety on the set, and just assuming that the "prop" gun was safe.... which can NEVER be the case with a real, functioning gun. It is just too easy for a real, functioning cartridge to be put in the chamber.
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From NPR
Quote:
"There are no words to convey my shock and sadness regarding the tragic accident that took the life of Halyna Hutchins, a wife, mother and deeply admired colleague of ours. I'm fully cooperating with the police investigation to address how this tragedy occurred and I am in touch with her husband, offering my support to him and his family," Baldwin wrote on Twitter Friday. "My heart is broken for her husband, their son, and all who knew and loved Halyna." - Alec Baldwin
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Swiss1939,

Great input. I was told by a high school friend, who worked in California on movie sets,
that the prop crew has a firearms specialist who is responsible for clearing and checking
all firearms used. I do not know if such a specialist is always employed.

The possibility for tragedy is the reason why hunters and sport shooters are trained
to not even point a cleared weapon at anyone. Always assume it is loaded.

As Dog indicated, this will probably be a case of live ammunition left and not checked
in the weapon. Movie sets - action movie sets, have got to be dangerous places.
Hey, you have stunt double so the A List actor does not get hurt. I expect most deaths
and injuries come from physical stunts rather than firearms.

Deepest sympathy to everyone involved.

To the spirit of the industry "break a Leg".

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Bill Dog wrote:
I'll be interested to know why the weapon was being aimed toward someone.

Lots more to come I guess.
We are all just hypothesizing. But I'm willing to bet it wasn't a live round. That is one major glaring mistake that is relatively difficult to overlook on a set. And if it were a live round my guess only one person would have been injured, not two. My money is on the blank shrapnel and proximity to it caused the second injury.
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Someone was in charge of props and safety on that set and it wasn't Alec Baldwin, although he bears the heavy burden of having been the conduit through which this thing happened.

I can't even really imagine that burden.
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Spoke to a friend who has more in depth knowledge of the specific on set safety training this DoP went through at some point in the past 6 years. The regulation requires 16 feet between muzzle and anyone in line of fire as well as usage of a protective barrier between anyone in the line of fire and the muzzle. The prop master has to check the barrel for obstructions multiple times with additional witnesses to confirm the gun is safe/clear for blank use prior to firing any blanks.

If any debri was in the barrel, it could lead to dangerous conditions/projectiles. Any combination of mistakes could have been made by multiple people and unfortunately these victims could have trusted that someone was doing their job properly and not realized the danger that was possible.

Sad event.
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If that's the case, someone seriously f'ed up and will probably face criminal charges for that mistake.
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This post was not quite
What we were hoping to see
Try again, perhaps?
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swiss1939 wrote:
https://www.avclub.com/rust-crew-reportedly-complained-about-unsafe-working-co-1847919921
Really sounds like the set was a hot mess.
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I'm baffled why they even use (or allow) real guns on set. Can't they use realistic looking gun and fake the sound in afterwards? And what was a live round doing on the set at all? I, like all of you, feel really sad for all the people involved.

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Miguel wrote:
I'm baffled why they even use (or allow) real guns on set. Can't they use realistic looking gun and fake the sound in afterwards?
There are some productions that have moved in that direction. I saw a producer I follow on Twitter comment about how the last few seasons of his most recent show did exactly that. They added every related effect in post production, and used no prop ammunition at all. He said it was actually faster and even cheaper, because they had more set time to devote to everything else in the scene.

I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a recommendation or even a requirement after this.
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A live round will pass through the first person then into the second standing behind.
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fledermaus wrote:
Really sounds like the set was a hot mess.
Yes, apparently it was and IATSE is a union I believe should exist to protect the people that work on the films. My father was a member of SMPTE and was happy with the union and felt it did good things.

So yeah the set... sad and I can tell you these things happen.

https://www.avclub.com/rust-crew-reportedly-complained-about-unsafe-working-co-1847919921

https://labornotes.org/2021/10/shocking-death-set-illuminates-stakes-film-and-tv-crew-contract-fight
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There is an Italian factory that produces fake guns identical to the real ones, they are the "top firing" and that is those weapons that even if they use a blank cartridge make the flame at the exit of the barrel to simulate the realism of the shot.
On the web there are thousands of imitations of weapons of all models that are identical in appearance to the real ones that make only the noise and the flash of the shot and are also cheap, what does it take to use those in a movie?
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School production of Sweeney Todd here in NZ... They just put tape over the razor.
Two kids had their throats cut, luckily they survived.
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znomit wrote:
School production of Sweeney Todd here in NZ... They just put tape over the razor.
Two kids had their throats cut, luckily they survived.
Facepalm emoticon
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Who brought a live round to set, why, who had custody of it, who put it get in the gun?

So many questions

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znomit wrote:
School production of Sweeney Todd here in NZ... They just put tape over the razor.
Two kids had their throats cut, luckily they survived.
How does this happen twice?!
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I have 30+years experience in handling of firearms.

Using a firearm that is capable of firing a live round as a movie prop firing blank ammunition is stupid at best, and criminally negilgent at worst.
Blank-firing weapons should be chambered / barrelled for the blank cartridge only, which is noticably shorter than a live cartridge. `
To be fully safe, the correctly designed and built prop firearm should not be able to close the action with a live round in place.
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Location: Tempe, AZ
 
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GTS300 Super (Heinz) GTS250 Super (Bulger)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4766
Location: Tempe, AZ
UTC quote
Or I suppose they could use real firearms with firing parts removed. Anything is better than this.
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