Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:32 am

Hooked
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 283
Location: Planet Earth
 
Hooked
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 283
Location: Planet Earth
Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:32 am linkquote
OK, id like to know if there are any simple tricks for squeezing a few more MPH out of a small frame without cylinder kits. So on a standard PX125 you can simply bolt on a sip road 2.0 or if you are complete masochist and like your ears deafened, a sito plus. I reckon this gives you about 1bhp more than standard. So when my px was standard, the road 2.0 gave me an increase in 4 mph gps. Then there was the air filter mod, removing the heart shape over jets, claimed on dynos to give you 0.5 hp extra. This also improved acceleration and gave an extra 1mph. These are little top end boosts for little money.

So on a small frame, are there any cheap tricks you can do to get a few more MPH. I have standard 20mm delorto SHBC L carb, standard piaggio pipe and as standard an XL motovespa 75cc barrel. I have reached 48.5mph max on GPS. My aim is to hit 50mph so thinking a cheap mod will make this reality. So exhaust i can get hold of easy in the UK is the 125 version sito plus (yep, my exhaust manifold is the 125 size, dont ask me why but it is. Its cheap but likely will fall apart after 18months. There is the BGM Pro for pk125/pk75xl. https://www.scooter-center.com/en/exhaust-bgm-pro-bigbox-touring-pk-vespa-pk125-s/xl/xl2/ets-motovespa-pk75-s/xl/junior-bgm1125pk but located in germany and bloody expensive when shipping and customs duty applied. Not available anywhere in uk. Then there are the leovince banana pipes too, dont know anything about these. Anybody know about air filter types too? Can change in filters squeeze a bit more oomph? Im not looking for kitting as its a local run about scoot and have a px177 for hacking about on. I want to keep engine standard and reliable and just have reversible bolt ons/mods. Thanks in advance.
Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:22 am

Molto Verboso
63 Lambretta LI 125 series 3, 71 Sprint Veloce , 2005 Vespa PX150, 1979 P200E
Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 1071
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
63 Lambretta LI 125 series 3, 71 Sprint Veloce , 2005 Vespa PX150, 1979 P200E
Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 1071
Location: Tucson, AZ
Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:22 am linkquote
If you are stuck on keeping the pk75xl try a free flowing exhaust and maybe a light weight wheel in the rear, the SIP saves 1 or 1.2lbs of rotational mass. You can try a free flowing air filter, the stock carb location under the seat is very restricted. I had a shop gutting out the inside of the exhaust box and re-welding it, it was barely a little louder than stock.
Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:41 am

Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3201

 
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3201

Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:41 am linkquote
scooterist wrote:
a light weight wheel in the rear, the SIP saves 1 or 1.2lbs of rotational mass.
Ah, finally someone brings up my favorite part about SIP's tubeless wheels!
Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:46 am

Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3201

 
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3201

Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:46 am linkquote
What do you consider simple?...you could break out a dremel and start changing the cylinder's port timings. If you really want to hit that 50mph barrier for cheap, eat a few extra pies and find the steepest downhill you can find. Infinity and beyond awaits you!
Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:56 am

Hooked
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 283
Location: Planet Earth
 
Hooked
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 283
Location: Planet Earth
Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:56 am linkquote
whodatschrome wrote:
What do you consider simple?...you could break out a dremel and start changing the cylinder's port timings. If you really want to hit that 50mph barrier for cheap, eat a few extra pies and find the steepest downhill you can find. Infinity and beyond awaits you!
Can't do the eat pies mod as I'm gluten intolerant lol.
Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:35 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:35 am linkquote
whodatschrome wrote:
Ah, finally someone brings up my favorite part about SIP's tubeless wheels!
I brought this up about the Pinasco split tubeless rims I installed a few years ago and got seriously flamed for it by people who eventually rage quit NSM (maybe MV entirely). I think that everyone was suitably traumatized to Never Speak of It Again.
Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:38 am

Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 111
Location: York, PA
 
Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 111
Location: York, PA
Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:38 am linkquote
ferriswolf wrote:
OK, id like to know if there are any simple tricks for squeezing a few more MPH out of a small frame without cylinder kits. So on a standard PX125 you can simply bolt on a sip road 2.0 or if you are complete masochist and like your ears deafened, a sito plus. I reckon this gives you about 1bhp more than standard. So when my px was standard, the road 2.0 gave me an increase in 4 mph gps. Then there was the air filter mod, removing the heart shape over jets, claimed on dynos to give you 0.5 hp extra. This also improved acceleration and gave an extra 1mph. These are little top end boosts for little money.

So on a small frame, are there any cheap tricks you can do to get a few more MPH. I have standard 20mm delorto SHBC L carb, standard piaggio pipe and as standard an XL motovespa 75cc barrel. I have reached 48.5mph max on GPS. My aim is to hit 50mph so thinking a cheap mod will make this reality. So exhaust i can get hold of easy in the UK is the 125 version sito plus (yep, my exhaust manifold is the 125 size, dont ask me why but it is. Its cheap but likely will fall apart after 18months. There is the BGM Pro for pk125/pk75xl. https://www.scooter-center.com/en/exhaust-bgm-pro-bigbox-touring-pk-vespa-pk125-s/xl/xl2/ets-motovespa-pk75-s/xl/junior-bgm1125pk but located in germany and bloody expensive when shipping and customs duty applied. Not available anywhere in uk. Then there are the leovince banana pipes too, dont know anything about these. Anybody know about air filter types too? Can change in filters squeeze a bit more oomph? Im not looking for kitting as its a local run about scoot and have a px177 for hacking about on. I want to keep engine standard and reliable and just have reversible bolt ons/mods. Thanks in advance.
It's not about power, it's about power to weight ratio! Go superleggera. Empty out the glove box. Take out all but a quart of fuel. Take extra keys off the key ring. Empty your pockets. Remember every once counts. Pump up the tires (less rolling resistance). The best part is all of this is free! Unless you buy a Porsche. They charge you more for a stripped down "club" car.
Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:50 am

Hooked
05 Px150, 74 primavera 125, Honda super cub
Joined: 08 Nov 2017
Posts: 153
Location: Ma
 
Hooked
05 Px150, 74 primavera 125, Honda super cub
Joined: 08 Nov 2017
Posts: 153
Location: Ma
Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:50 am linkquote
I too am in the same boat. I have a mostly stock premavera 125 with polini cp21 carb and 12v electronic ignition. Was wondering if I bolt on a Polini snail (up jet main) would that get me to 50mph? I seem to max out around 45.
Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:33 am

Hooked
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 283
Location: Planet Earth
 
Hooked
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 283
Location: Planet Earth
Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:33 am linkquote
JayN wrote:
I too am in the same boat. I have a mostly stock premavera 125 with polini cp21 carb and 12v electronic ignition. Was wondering if I bolt on a Polini snail (up jet main) would that get me to 50mph? I seem to max out around 45.
This is the same thing as you my friend. I want some helpful advice, such as will an exhaust change, just push it to 50 and maybe a little bit more without mullering it down the kit route or chiseling bits off of it. It is in my eyes a vintage gem, hard to find in this country, 1987 xl75 motovespa that has been carefully looked after for its whole life in barcelona spain and i dont want to f*** it up and go down the bottomless pit of the kitting route and the pitfalls that come with this. I considered kitting but when i read what goes into it to reach a few mph over what im getting its not worth the money. e.g. the polini 102 and pipe and uprated crank and labour to reach 80kmh is what im nearly getting already with the 75. But if i can get a few mph with a change of pipe, thats my aim.

So, for example, i could ask, has anybody put a sito plus on a smallie and seen a few mph extra? This is the sort of question i would like answering. Im surprised your primmy doesnt go above 50, i though they were good for more than 50. Drove one I borrowed years back and it was quicker than my v100 and that always went off the 60 clock.
Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:03 am

Hooked
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 283
Location: Planet Earth
 
Hooked
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 283
Location: Planet Earth
Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:03 am linkquote
garncarz wrote:
It's not about power, it's about power to weight ratio! Go superleggera. Empty out the glove box. Take out all but a quart of fuel. Take extra keys off the key ring. Empty your pockets. Remember every once counts. Pump up the tires (less rolling resistance). The best part is all of this is free! Unless you buy a Porsche. They charge you more for a stripped down "club" car.
Well, im 12 stone 7lbs so maybe i need to cut back on the sweets. My tyre pressures are good and i have new s1 on rear. I dont carry anything in my glove box; they are plastic on a PK XL and delicate (no longer available so dont want to bust it) but i do have spare tyre under left side panel door. The thing is the Pk is a very light scooter as it is. It catches me by surprise about how flighty it can be in side winds. Always though the PX was like being in possession of a sail in wind, but a PK is very light. You can easily lift the front end up like a bicycle.
Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:02 am

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 9685
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 9685
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:02 am linkquote
Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:45 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:45 am linkquote
garncarz wrote:
It's not about power, it's about power to weight ratio! Go superleggera. Empty out the glove box. Take out all but a quart of fuel. Take extra keys off the key ring. Empty your pockets. Remember every once counts. Pump up the tires (less rolling resistance). The best part is all of this is free! Unless you buy a Porsche. They charge you more for a stripped down "club" car.
Ride naked!
Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:36 pm

Not So Moderator
VNB VSC VBC VSX*2
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 5439
Location: Hustletown, TX
 
Not So Moderator
VNB VSC VBC VSX*2
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 5439
Location: Hustletown, TX
Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:36 pm linkquote
That Hollywood gem never gets old.
Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:24 am

Hooked
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 283
Location: Planet Earth
 
Hooked
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 283
Location: Planet Earth
Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:24 am linkquote
So has nobody tried on a small frame
A polini snail?
BGM Big Box
Sito Plus
Leovince

Please share if you have and what you gained as no answers coming forward, thank you.
Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:59 am

Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3201

 
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3201

Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:59 am linkquote
I have no experience with a PK 75. Keep in mind that 99% of us here at some point wanted and hoped to eke out just a few more MPH from our scooters with a simple inexpensive "whatever" bolt-on to the engine. Let me know if you come up with one, because anytime i want to add just a few more MPH it's at least another $500.
Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:26 am

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8444
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8444
Location: seattle/athens
Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:26 am linkquote
Leo Vince makes a nice pipe for the PK. I ran it on mine for a while, then modified it to put in my 50S w/ 125 motor and it does add some power, though louder than stock.

My PK50xl2 w/ DR70 kit and 19 carb did 50 or more when it had this pipe on.


I had to cut and weld the header pipe because the PK has a cavity underneath in front of the motor the muff tucks up into.

Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:41 am

Hooked
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 283
Location: Planet Earth
 
Hooked
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 283
Location: Planet Earth
Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:41 am linkquote
V oodoo wrote:
Leo Vince makes a nice pipe for the PK. I ran it on mine for a while, then modified it to put in my 50S w/ 125 motor and it does add some power, though louder than stock.

My PK50xl2 w/ DR70 kit and 19 carb did 50 or more when it had this pipe on.
Pretty good, is that 50mph GPS?
Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:37 pm

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8444
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8444
Location: seattle/athens
Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:37 pm linkquote
Ummm....

no, but definitely faster than before the swap.
Mon Nov 08, 2021 5:32 am

Hooked
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 283
Location: Planet Earth
 
Hooked
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 283
Location: Planet Earth
Mon Nov 08, 2021 5:32 am linkquote
Well ive ordered a BGM Bigbox Pro for the 75XL


So I shall let you know if it makes any difference to top end.https://beedspeed.com/products/vespa-pk125-exhaust-bgm-pro-big-box-s-x-xl2-ets-motovespa-pk75-s-xl-junior
Mon Nov 08, 2021 5:40 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
Mon Nov 08, 2021 5:40 am linkquote
Don't forget to up your jetting when you install it!
Mon Nov 08, 2021 5:54 am

Hooked
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 283
Location: Planet Earth
 
Hooked
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 283
Location: Planet Earth
Mon Nov 08, 2021 5:54 am linkquote
yep, Jets are about to be ordered too. Will only need 1 or 2 pts up as its standard 75 barrel, not a kit. BGM state 2 to 4 pts up but 4 pts is for 130 kits etc. With a tailwind on saturday hit 50.9 mph on GPS then 46mph in the other direction. Ive had 48.5 mph gps with no wind so hopefully the BGM will push me over the 50mph. However, when i changed my road 2.0 on my 177 to a polini thinking it would be better, it was 6mph slower so will wait and see and report back. Had the speedo cable and worm drive sorted out saturday too, no more speedo indicator flying about, interestingly the most fairly accurate speedo ive had. Its only 2.5kmh out against GPS, unlike my PX which is around 9kmh overread
Mon Nov 08, 2021 6:16 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
Mon Nov 08, 2021 6:16 am linkquote
Have you ever looked at the base setup of your motor? e.g. Port matching, Port timings, ignition timing, and squish?

Those can all be tweaked to improve performance noticeably, and that's before we even talk about O-Tuning (modifying the stock components to improve performance).

A lot of performance depends on how much work (and risk) you're looking to take on, but these motors all came from the factory with incredibly sloppy base setups, e.g. P200's shipped with ~3mm of squish when 1.2mm is closer to the mark (less for high-performance motors).
Mon Nov 08, 2021 6:36 am

Hooked
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 283
Location: Planet Earth
 
Hooked
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 283
Location: Planet Earth
Mon Nov 08, 2021 6:36 am linkquote
I'm not into chiselling bits on my scooters as I like to keep them reversible and original as I can .I'm happy to bolt on a kit etc but not mod an engine in such way it's irreversible. For example my px125 did about 58mph top speed on a good day , now I always get 64 and Rev out. I can put it back to 125 to sell for learner drivers and engine not touched. If I wanted to reach 70 80 I would buy a gts or a motorcycle .
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:25 am

Hooked
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 283
Location: Planet Earth
 
Hooked
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 283
Location: Planet Earth
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:25 am linkquote
So my buddy up road stuck a bgm pro bigbox 75 125 exhaust on the pk75xl and its upped its speed to just under 52mph. Pretty good for standard 75cc barrel. Its got bags of torque more pull and a higher pitch than standard. Drinks more fuel and up jetted on 20mm carb 2 pts to 78 . Great pipe for smallframe and allows me to retain the unique pk spare wheel feature under side panel door. The best thing now is no vibration in plastic toolbox and headset and side panel doors. Got from beedspeed after 2 days of order and cheapish at 119 quid including postage.
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