Modern Vespa

So I've been kinda on the hunt for a rusty Vespa project for the past few years. There were the two rust buckets that Modkuo posted up in Nor Cal, which I was interested in, but i already have a 1961 Allstate (VBB), so it would be essentially the same scooter. Plus those scooters were priced way too high for being windfalls. I was still jonesing for one though. I went over to my friend's house and showed him the pics of the two Nor Cal scooters on my phone. He looked at the pics, then looked at me, then looked at the pics, then looked at me, then looked at the pics one last time, then looked at me and said, "I got one of those. Do you want to go see it?" Duh! We drove right over to his storage unit and he pulled out an old rusty 1958 VB1T widebody. There was no engine, but all the body parts were there. I told him my vision for the scooter, and a deal was struck in a matter of 2 seconds.

He also said that he had a P200 in bits in his storage unit as well, sooooo I just had to buy that as well. The only thing I was interested in was the engine though...


EDIT: i just came across previous threads of mine regarding hydro disc brake conversion options...
Which fork to use for a 10" disc brake VB1?
P fork and headset on a PK

THIS is gonna be good....

Did you get a gas tank with it?

Pretty hard to find, but this might work:

https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Used-Parts/VL3-Tank

Very cool, I think you made out well here!

SCORE! It always pays off to tell people what you're up to, cause you never know....

Watching....

Yeah, so you've probably guessed my plan is to find a widebody engine and swap it into a P frame...


Nah, this VB1 frame is rusty enough that I won't feel bad stuffing a P200 engine in it. So I'm after two things with this build, having a stock P200 engine and a full hydro disc brake up front. I'll probably switch over to 10" rims as well. I like having the extra ground clearance.

Alas no tank came with it. I checked out the one in your link. It would definitely match the rust....errr patina on the VB1, but I'm REALLY leaning towards going after an oversized 6 Days repop tank.

I cut out the floor under the tunnel since it was so dang rotted out. I'll definitely be following your lead on using a large sheet of metal (Probably Aluminium) bolted up underneath.

This pic is after I cut out the floor and blasted EVERYTHING for about 45 minutes with my pressure washer. It removed tons of flaky rust. I'll come back with a wire wheel, pressure wash it again, then start pouring on the Ospho.

Looks familiar, you gonna put in that P200 motor?

I'll actually remove the non-oiler P200 that's in my 61 Allstate 200, swap that into this VB1, then rebuild this new to me auto-lube 200 and toss it back into my Allstate 200 (and install an oil reservoir).

Thanks for those floorboard and engine mount pics. I'm trying to decide if I want to fab up my own conversion engine mount, or go the chicken route and simply buy a pre made one. I think the only difficult part is the trial and error of where exactly to position the engine.

I've heard that the fork angle on the widebodies is pretty steep making them twitchy when upgrading the bhp etc. guessing you could solve that if it really is an issue when modifying a fork?

Can't wait to see the vb1t done!

Another maroon p200. makes me wonder if they sold any other p200 color in the US!

Silver with bad paint!


Looking forward to watching this one!

Fresh out of the storage unit!

Great patina, I certainly hope you're not thinking of painting that original beauty...


couldn't resist

No way Jose! No painting whatsoever is allowed. That rust is staying put. In fact it might even grow a bit since I'm located in the PAC NW.

A few more detail shots to help you decide. This is heavier than the one SIP has and not that hard to make. I can get you a few dimensions if you like

Well okay.... best get a fresh tetanus shot and avoid toney places
(Jose, eh, not Yanni? )

I have some pics of the shock mount you'll need to make too, I'll take a look.

I pressure washed the ever living heck out of the engine this evening. I wasn't concerned about getting any of the internal bit wet since I was going to disassemble the engine right away. I did remove the stator before I pressured washed though. So I set all my tools next to the engine and hit the stop watch...

...7 minutes 29 seconds later the cases were split.


12 minutes 58 seconds in and it was disemboweled.

The whole transmission looks to be in excellent shape! There quite a bit of slop in the gear stack. I'll have to see what all I have for shims. The only wear I see is two little nicks on the 4th gear...which is perfect since I was planning on replacing that 35T 4th with a 36t short 4th gear anyhow! Even the shift cross is in great shape. I will replace the cross with a fancier DRT (or equivalent) version.

The piston has scoring on all 7 sides of it, so out it will go. The crank looks great too...well except for a slight rust ring where it rode on the flyside oil seal. I should be able to polish it out with some 500 grit sandpaper.

The engine has a 20/20 carb on it, so I'll have to swap a 24/24 on it for sure. I forgot to check to see what cylinder head is on it, but since it has a 20/20 carb, I'm betting it has the less desirable USA head. If that's the case I might splurge and buy a SIP machined zero squish head. We'll see how much $$$ is left before I start pumping too many dollars into it.


So it looks like the only things that will need replacing are;
-piston (GS)
-crank bearings
-4th gear (36T P125)
-seal kit
-gasket kit
-cruciform (DRT)
-DRT clutch nut
-magnetic oil drain plug (GS)
-primary rebuild kit

We should get our new resident machinist to make a jig, so he can cut heads down for us. I was thinking a plate with four studs and adjustable nuts to level up a head to machine it. Maybe hold down clamps on the edges to keep it snug to the studs?

I love this thread

That would be nice. No machine shops around in my parts are set up to machine cylinder heads. The other nice thing about the SIP version is that i has an O-ring in the head.

Cool project Whodats! Love me some VB1. I have a '58 I'll get back to building on of these days. Similar in patina too.

So, just incase you're thinking of it; I do have a spare engine to fit your VB1; well - atleast a headstart on one: cases, swingarm, misc internal bits. HmU if you want to know more.

Good luck!

Thank you for the offer, but i'm definitely going with a stock 200 engine. I'd like to stick with only a specific generation of Vespa engines (P/PX200's) so that i can have a large stock of parts that will fit ALL my Vespa scooters. That philosophy has been working pretty darn well for me over the years.

This is perfect. I love this so much. I hope to find a VB1 one day too. Gonna pop some popcorn and enjoy this one.

My take on this is that I cheer every time that I see another Vespa back on the road. The fact that thanks God we have sources of parts for just about every replacement that we need this is already a good reason to go out there and hunt for a vespa.

Kudos to you for rescuing another vintage vespa.

Cheering you on brother.

So how far back did you position the engine swingarm holes (measurements in "on center")? And what where did you offset it to the left and right? Making my own brackets would be too difficult, but figuring out exactly where to position the engine might be. That's why i was looking at buying a SIP conversion engine mount bracket. But i'm sure if i did that, i'd probably end up cutting and modifying it a little bit. I'm also reading that with the SIP bracket, the rear wheel will need to be mounted on backwards in order to get the correct offset on the engine. I'm guess so that there's less cutting that needs to be done to the scooter frame? I'm not really concerned about slicing and dicing into something that's won't ever be concours d'elegance.


I had no idea until i just looked it up...turns out Yanni is Greecenese! Now it's all making sense

I'll get some measurements and take a few more pics. I think it would also be useful to ask GeekLion for wheel center to pivot center distance to verify difference to P motor for your new hole locations. I didn't do that and I'll get the sideways offset best I can, I think I had to just go as far as I could but not sure how close to 'correct'. I still have a too long P fork Mickey Moused in it and never have ridden it fast .



Project thread: vee bee one- got gas gauge, almost got seat!

I love this strategy. Fully interchangable spare parts for days and days

I found some slight pitting of rust on the crankshaft, RIGHT where the flyside oil seal rides. Arrrg!

But I did get a care package from SIP this today! The cylinder and the new GS piston are currently at the machine shop, either getting a bore or a hone.

I got the primary rebuilt with a DRT spring kit.

The P200 4th gear (35 tooth) that was in the engine had a couple nicks in it, so I had to buy a new one. I decided to use a short (36 tooth) 4th that's from a P125 gearbox. The cruciform had very little wear, but whenever you split a case you have to take the opportunity to change it out! I decided to try out a harder DRT cross.

And since I needed a new crank, well...I decided to try out a 60mm long stroke! I'll be using the stock top end on this engine. Maybe I can get away with using the stock USA cylinder head? I dunno yet.

The crank looks way lots more nice than the stock 57mm version.

Good stuff here. Bummer about the crank corrosion, but good opportunity to upgrade. Looks like the SIP 60m stroke crank is very nice. I am looking at these cranks for my Patina200E; which I'll be doing a similar build on. Interesting how they altered the machining for the intake opening web. You should be able to use the stock USA head, as the 60m stroke should give 0.0 squish, then just shim the head to where you want it.

Honestly I'd consider using some emery cloth on that crank to smooth it and try running it. But no biggie.

And that's exactly how i'm having to look at buying that new SIP crank. But that corroded crank is sooooo close to being a keeper though! The SIP cranks looks to be a much more efficient design with that "knife" edge that it has. The con-rod is pretty darn nice as well. The last P200 engine i built has a stock squish of 3.8mm! so it should be interesting to see what my initial squish will be. The guy at the machine shop might be finished with the hone/bore (not sure which i'm getting. I'll leave that up to him) on my cylinder this weekend.

I'm really interested to see how much more torque the long stroke will give me. I guess there's no real "apples to apples" testing though. Since the long stroke will give me an actual squish, i should get a bit more power out of it by just having that squish. I'm also really curious what my ending cylinder head compression will be once i set my squish. I guess i'll just have to wait and see!

I live where there's lots of hills and headwinds, so having that short 4th gears REALLY helps out my scooters big time.

My widebody engine mount adapter has been stuck in customs for the past week and a half, so i'm still waiting on that. I did do a little bit more pressure washing of the rust a couple days ago. The scooter got a little bit lighter weight...

You're probably right John. I might also be able to simply just press the fly side seal in a little bit further in order to miss the pitting? I did a very quick sand with a piece of 500 grit paper that was floating around on the floor of my shop. I think some actual emery cloth would fix it....but it was a really good excuse to buy a 60mm crank! I spent a fair amount of time (and a few $$$) to get a 1.4mm squish on my last P200 engine build. I used a 57mm crank, had to mill the top of my cast iron cylinder down, through in some extra gaskets, buy a MMW zero squish head, and reprofile the cylinder head's combustion chamber in order to lower the compression. My thought (hope?) is that a 60mm crank will let me bypass a few of those steps.

Just catching up on this one and joining the party.
Whodat! U gotta round tail wide body - by which I am of course referring to the scooter.
Looks to be about same shape as mine.
Like your gas tank solution.
Haven't decided what I will do to try amd recover what's left of mine - which is mostly dust…

Great project.