Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:04 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 3284
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 3284
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:04 pm linkquote
Three words A-MAZ-ING!! Ok, three syllables, but you get my point.

I don't know about leaving the welds, or grinding them down. I'd probably grind them down, just to show the smooth aspect, that is still all scarred and tough ..
Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:20 pm

parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

 
parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:20 pm linkquote
So does anyone here know if the fancy Scooter & Service Shock upper absorber plate is still in production? Both SIP and Scooter Center don't have it in stock. I'm hoping to "lower" the angle on my fork's trailing link a little bit. https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/shock-absorber-base-plate-scooter-service-front-top_17488800

Also, does anyone has experience with the MMW fork stem adapter? From what i can gather, it looks like it can be used on pretty much every single Vespa fork out there (except for the T5 style). I'm wanting to extend the upper portion of my 16mm P fork about 1/2"~3/4", and the MMW adapter would sure make it easier.
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/adapter-steering-column-zip-quartz-et2-steering-column-in-vespa-frame-top_13399331
Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:32 pm

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 8347
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 8347
Location: San Francisco
Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:32 pm linkquote
AF Parts makes this one:

https://www.kytronik.com/collections/afparts/products/keuk-plate
Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:54 pm

parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

 
parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:54 pm linkquote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
Thanks for looking out Patrick, but that one is for a PK fork. The PK plates have a different distance between the two fork mounting holes from the P/PX fork (i found that out a few years ago). That PK KEUK plate (along with i think 100% of other aftermarket PK plates) are manufactured with an offset in order to line up the stroke of the shock when installing a disc brake kit. With the setup that i have, i can't use and offset plate...even if it were for a PX fork.

After a little research, it looks like the ET2 and ET4 use the exact same plate as the PK.
The LX and GTS models use a different plate than the earlier TnG vespas. I have no idea just how different they are though...can they be made to fit a PK or a PX?..i dunno. It does look like they have a lot more of an offset than a stock PK fork plate though.

LX/GTS plate- https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/shock-absorber-base-plate-sip-sip-zelioni-racingbros-shock-absorber-front_MV273693
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:01 am

The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 1450
Location: PNW from LBC
 
The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 1450
Location: PNW from LBC
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:01 am linkquote
This ol scuttle bucket is coming along great. Superb fab work as usual. I vote for the raw weld's un-grindededededed

For a fork spacer - double stack an extra bearing race on the lower part, that may create enough clearance between the mudguard / legshield. Then just address extending the top.
Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:42 am

parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

 
parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:42 am linkquote
GeekLion wrote:
This ol scuttle bucket is coming along great. Superb fab work as usual. I vote for the raw weld's un-grindededededed

For a fork spacer - double stack an extra bearing race on the lower part, that may create enough clearance between the mudguard / legshield. Then just address extending the top.
Hopefully your vote was not sway by intimidation.

I tried that already, and i definitely need more space than the ol' double stacked bearing race on the fork part method...lots more.
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:00 pm

The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 1450
Location: PNW from LBC
 
The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 1450
Location: PNW from LBC
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:00 pm linkquote
whodatschrome wrote:
Hopefully your vote was not sway by intimidation.

I tried that already, and i definitely need more space than the ol' double stacked bearing race on the fork part method...lots more.
of course you tried that already, you know what you're doin
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:09 pm

parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

 
parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:09 pm linkquote
GeekLion wrote:
of course you tried that already, you know what you're doin
It's one of those semi-common tricks that i did completely forget about for a good 6 hours though.
Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:45 pm

parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

 
parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:45 pm linkquote
HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE!

I just did a full stop on the fork last night. I had an epiphany and decided to back way up in order get a run at it again. Here's the story...

My buddy has a small lathe, and i asked him if he could make some spacers for my vespa fork. He said "sure. Are you planning on welding any of the spacers to the frame?" Right then and there i got to thinking about somehow welding spacers to the frame (instead of making them sleeve into the fork). So what if i simply welded in a second lower bearing race retainer right over the top of the original one? Then i thought that it would be nice to make the whole steering area in the frame stronger. The VB1 doesn't have a support tube (steering column?) between the upper and lower steering bearing race retainers...so, my thought was to add one in!

I cut out the column of that blue accordioned P frame that i have.










This is what the lower bearing retainer looks like. As you can see there's no column between the upper and lower bearings.

Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:18 pm

parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

 
parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:18 pm linkquote
I had to nip off the existing two little fork stops that are (we're) located on the bearing retainer.

I also had to make the hole larger for the column to slip through at the top of the frame. I had to first make a template and tack weld it to the frame. By doing that it would keep the 1.5" hole saw exactly where i wanted it.

I also had to knock out the spot welds of the old metal cable guide. I used a very long angled cold chisel. That guide is in the way of the steering column. With it removed, then i have all the room that i need.








The happy face means that it's a perfectly tight fit!



Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:27 pm

parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

 
parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:27 pm linkquote
This is what it looks like from the bottom with the steering column mocked up. It looks like my modifications will lower the fork about 5/8"~3/4" more than where i originally had it...which will create the perfect amount of space for clearance between the mudguard and the legshield. The bummer about it is that i'll have a HUGE gap between the bottom of the horncast and the top of the mudguard.




You can see the fork stop in action in this pic

Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:46 pm

parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

 
parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:46 pm linkquote
So it is kinda of a bummer that i need to use a different 16mm P fork. Reason being is that the current P fork that i was planning to use has the fork stops sanded completely off, so it doesn't work with my now current grand plan. But luckily i procured yet another 16mm P fork from my shelves of spare parts. I will have to cut the fresh welds from the 20mm PX lower lug off of the first 16mm fork and then reweld it back onto this second 16mm fork.

All of this additional work WILL solve multiple things that i need to do...
-it will provide me with a VERY simple solution to have fork stops.
-it will create a stronger than stock steering column.
-i can use easier to find P/PX fork bearings.
-i will have space between the back of the mudguard and the legshield.
-i can get the fork's trailing link at the exact angle that i want it this time.

The down sides...
-there will be a large gap between the top of the mudguard and the horncast.
-i won't be able to use a fork column lock without a LARGE amount of cutting and welding. And if i do, it will have to be a P fork lock...maybe a PX lock if i get REALLY creative.

I'll still need to extend the steering column about 3/4". I'll also need to extend the P fork about 3/4" as well. My plan for that is to cut an upper portion of yet another different 16mm P fork (fork #3, this one is bent though) and simply weld it to the top of fork #2.


you can see that one of the 16mm P forks don't have a fork stop

Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:08 pm

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:08 pm linkquote
You don't mess around.
Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:11 pm

parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

 
parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:11 pm linkquote
No welding today, but i did do some choppin and loppin.

EDIT: i did do some more welding today.

I grabbed my last (straight) 16mm fork off the shelf. I compared the length of the first 16/20mm fork that i built to this 16mm fork. Fork 2 will be about 5/8~3/4" longer than fork 1. I cut the 20mm lug off the bottom of fork 1. I also cut down fork 2 to where i want it. I drilled the end of 16mm fork 1 with a 7/8" step bit. The reason for drilling it, is that the 16mm fork is a smaller diameter than the 20mm lower fork lug that i'll be welding into place.


fork 2 on the left, fork 1 on the right. Notice that i ground my V into the end of the tube already.


20mm PX fork lug


enlarging the hole in the 16mm fork to 7/8"


This is pretty close to what the angle will be on fork 2's trailing link. The angle finder is at what the 1st fork's trailing link was set at. Fork 2 is about 5/8"~3/4" longer in the down tube section, but my overall front suspension ride height



Last edited by whodatschrome on Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:27 pm

parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

 
parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:27 pm linkquote
I guess there was a smidge bit of welding today. Turned out i needed to make the opening much larger in the top of the mudguard so that it will slip over the top of lower steering bearing's dust shield. So i welded up two obsolete holes in the top of the fender.

I then used a brand new T5 fender as a template to cut out the hole in the VB1 fender.






I cut down a P series fender support tab to the height that i need.




what it looks like with the tab welded on the fork. Whenever i weld on a fork i break out the 220v welder. Even for non structural welds, a 220v will lay down nicer looking beads than a 110v on a thicker steel.



Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:41 pm

parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

 
parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:41 pm linkquote
I also got motivated to fab up an upper fender reinforcement plate. The original plate is just too small to fit a P series fork. I had a scrap piece of stainless steel exhaust tubing that was off of a Cummins pick'em up truck.


I made a template out of blue tape on the fender.


I then transferred the blue tape template to the scrap piece of stainless.


What the template looks like after i cut it out


the original plate next to the one i made.


a pretty decent fit. It did take some doing to shape the piece to the contour of the fender.





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