Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:30 am

Not So Moderator
VNB vsc o9c VMA vbc VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 6007
Location: Hustletown, TX
 
Not So Moderator
VNB vsc o9c VMA vbc VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 6007
Location: Hustletown, TX
Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:30 am linkquote
A thread devoted to that random turn of phrase, or comments that get your attention, make you laugh, or just seem worth noting...

(Hoping this thread can be evergreen. Feel free to use old gems and NSM-isms, from folks now long gone.)

I'll start... from Chandlerman on fire safety:
Chandlerman wrote:
I've set myself on fire enough for one lifetime.
Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:38 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5857
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5857
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:38 am linkquote
applicable this week:
90% of carb problems are electrical
Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:48 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5857
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5857
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:48 am linkquote
Always pressure test an engine before you install it

Fit your floor rails before you paint

I think that's the last part for the order.... <send> ... OH NO!!
Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:02 am

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2909
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2909
Location: Veria, Greece
Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:02 am linkquote
This one is mine...

Whoever designed the smallframe engine and decided to put the gear selector and cables where he did, he should have been hanged by the balls, at the central square of Pontedera...
Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:22 am

Addicted
'07 GTS250ie "Mechanical Squirrel", '66 Honda Benly, '19 Suzuki 250 cafe "Mouse", '77 Jawa 350TS, '42 Henschel PzKw VI Tiger
Joined: 01 Jul 2011
Posts: 847
Location: somewhere deep in the back of the garage...Burlington ONT.
 
Addicted
'07 GTS250ie "Mechanical Squirrel", '66 Honda Benly, '19 Suzuki 250 cafe "Mouse", '77 Jawa 350TS, '42 Henschel PzKw VI Tiger
Joined: 01 Jul 2011
Posts: 847
Location: somewhere deep in the back of the garage...Burlington ONT.
Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:22 am linkquote
An old bike will always start first kick when you are alone in the garage. Said same machine will never start without a fight when at a rally with an audience.

Even though its a cool feature, never reverse your Russian army bike at a rally, you will dump it and flip your wife off onto the wet grass.

Always marry someone who shares your interests. That way when you fuck it up they are more likely to appreciate the situation in a more forgiving light and cut you some slack. ( see above dumping of the wife incident )
Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:49 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5614
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5614
Location: Nashville
Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:49 am linkquote
Birdsnest wrote:
I'll start... from Chandlerman on fire safety:
Chandlerman wrote:
I've set myself on fire enough for one lifetime.
For better or worse, I do seem to live my life as a cautionary tale for others.

That being said, I'll go with a few thoughts on riding safety:

Dress for the crash, not the ride.
and
Without gloves, your fingers are just red crayons.

Luckily, I only learned the first one The Hard Way
Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:35 pm

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8517
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8517
Location: seattle/athens
Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:35 pm linkquote
I'll play...

Torque flywheel nut well before testing kick starter!

also, see below, especially this part
Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:38 pm

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3710
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3710
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:38 pm linkquote
V oodoo wrote:
I'll play...

Torque flywheel nut well before testing kick starter!

also, see below, especially this part
Or my personal repeated mistake... Don't forget to remove the flywheel holding tool before trying to kickstart after making timing changes!
Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:42 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5857
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5857
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:42 pm linkquote
swiss1939 wrote:
Or my personal repeated mistake... Don't forget to remove the flywheel holding tool before trying to kickstart after making timing changes!
done that
Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:51 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5614
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5614
Location: Nashville
Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:51 pm linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
done that
Ditto. Might even have done it pretty recently...
Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:56 pm

Molto Verboso
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 1318
Location: PNW from LBC
 
Molto Verboso
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 1318
Location: PNW from LBC
Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:56 pm linkquote
Dont forget the Cotter Pin
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:05 pm

Ossessionato
'70 Super 150, Aprilia SR MT 125, Moto Guzzi Bellagio
Joined: 22 Nov 2011
Posts: 2309
Location: Sydney, Australia
 
Ossessionato
'70 Super 150, Aprilia SR MT 125, Moto Guzzi Bellagio
Joined: 22 Nov 2011
Posts: 2309
Location: Sydney, Australia
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:05 pm linkquote
My main one would be: Engine cases are soft as cheese. Take your time and have patience when doing up bolts.
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:36 pm

Hooked
1968 VBB150
Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 372
Location: OC
 
Hooked
1968 VBB150
Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 372
Location: OC
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:36 pm linkquote
"If someone on NSM says Do it THIS way, and another person concurs, there is a VERY good reason"

Also, dry fit everything, ESPECIALLY Floor rails.
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:40 pm

Addicted
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 720
Location: northern New York
 
Addicted
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 720
Location: northern New York
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:40 pm linkquote
Always modify the cheapest part.
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:56 pm

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 8108
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 8108
Location: San Francisco
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:56 pm linkquote
If the rear wheel locked up, it was a 'Hard Seize'.

Run-in is the time it takes to convince yourself it's not going to explode.

The number of running bikes can never exceed three.
Mon Nov 01, 2021 4:05 pm

Not So Moderator
VNB vsc o9c VMA vbc VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 6007
Location: Hustletown, TX
 
Not So Moderator
VNB vsc o9c VMA vbc VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 6007
Location: Hustletown, TX
Mon Nov 01, 2021 4:05 pm linkquote
^^^
straight gold.
Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:58 pm

Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 4310
Location: That bushfire place
 
Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 4310
Location: That bushfire place
Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:58 pm linkquote
V oodoo wrote:
I'll play...

Torque flywheel nut well before testing kick starter!

also, see below, especially this part
Torque your kickstarter (or at least put the bolt & nut back in) before trying to kick start
Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:44 am

Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 4310
Location: That bushfire place
 
Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 4310
Location: That bushfire place
Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:44 am linkquote
"It ran when I parked it in the shed"

Meaning; I ran for bloody miles trying to get the damn thing started & finally made it to the shed.

"Only needs a minor tuneup & it will run"

Meaning; there was a time that I sprayed a bucketload of ether into the carb & put in a brand new plug & it fired, but possibly it's got no spark, electrics cannot be tested as it wont start, there is a chance it has low compression, but at times it seems very high, as almost seized...
Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:57 pm

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8517
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8517
Location: seattle/athens
Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:57 pm linkquote
More power?

Hey, cheap and easy!

Just bolt on this XXX kit, it's all Plug and Play!

But you might want to consider a decent GS piston now, just saying...

Oh yeah, likely wanna upjet a couple points while you're in there...

If you keep that shitty() stock carb...

And check your TIMING too, especially if you go fancy new proper ignition...

Well, yeah that crappy stock muff IS kinda holding you back now...

How are your brakes, shocks and tires?

Factory original, eh?

Nice...
Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:00 pm

Addicted
Old douglas ..smallie with polini 115..super with nasco 177
Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Posts: 661
Location: New Zealand
 
Addicted
Old douglas ..smallie with polini 115..super with nasco 177
Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Posts: 661
Location: New Zealand
Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:00 pm linkquote
chrome dont get ya home
Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:40 pm

Addicted
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 810
Location: Los Angeles
 
Addicted
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 810
Location: Los Angeles
Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:40 pm linkquote
V oodoo wrote:
More power?

Hey, cheap and easy!

Just bolt on this XXX kit, it's all Plug and Play!

But you might want to consider a decent GS piston now, just saying...

Oh yeah, likely wanna upjet a couple points while you're in there...

If you keep that shitty() stock carb...

And check your TIMING too, especially if you go fancy new proper ignition...

Well, yeah that crappy stock muff IS kinda holding you back now...

How are your brakes, shocks and tires?

Factory original, eh?

Nice...
So true...
Buying a vintage Vespa is inviting someone over for Nail Broth.
Read here by Danny Kaye, ca 1960:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:21 pm

Evil
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 666

 
Evil
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 666

Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:21 pm linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
applicable this week:
90% of carb problems are electrical
Need to get a tattoo of this quote
Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:21 pm

Evil
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 666

 
Evil
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 666

Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:21 pm linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
Always pressure test an engine before you install it

Fit your floor rails before you paint

I think that's the last part for the order.... <send> ... OH NO!!
These are gold
Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:22 pm

Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3528

 
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3528

Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:22 pm linkquote
"Grade AA - first-class repair" can somehow get lost with the German translation
Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:48 pm

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 3123
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 3123
Location: california
Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:48 pm linkquote
Quote:
Even though its a cool feature, never reverse your Russian army bike at a rally, you will dump it and flip your wife off onto the wet grass.
Quote:
Run-in is the time it takes to convince yourself it's not going to explode.
Caused a good chuckle.

- Your new motor isn't seized. You forgot to take the rubber stopper out of the exhaust outlet.
- Don't forget the cotter pin...
Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:15 am

Evil
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 666

 
Evil
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 666

Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:15 am linkquote
"Its a 15mins job... will only take 10... (still at it after 4hours staring at the part/gasket/O ring which snapped)"
Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:54 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5857
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5857
Location: San Diego, CA
Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:54 am linkquote
Along those lines, whatever money you've budgeted, multiply by two. For time, multiply by three.
Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:55 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5857
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5857
Location: San Diego, CA
Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:55 am linkquote
A scooter is worth X
If it doesn't run, multiply by 1/2
If it's in pieces multiply by another 1/2
If it doesn't have a title, multiply by another 1/2
-Greasy
Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:23 am

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 8108
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 8108
Location: San Francisco
Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:23 am linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
Along those lines, whatever money you've budgeted, multiply by two. For time, multiply by three.
Not scooter related, but same formula for large IT projects: "ask three experts to estimate the project, add them together"
Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:44 am

Ossessionato
2 - Many
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 3139
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
 
Ossessionato
2 - Many
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 3139
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:44 am linkquote
Femsatronic is a dirty word but not because of what civilians think it means.
Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:22 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5614
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5614
Location: Nashville
Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:22 am linkquote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
Not scooter related, but same formula for large IT projects: "ask three experts to estimate the project, add them together"


For ERP projects, multiply instead of adding.
Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:46 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5857
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5857
Location: San Diego, CA
Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:46 am linkquote
what is ERP?
Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:10 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5614
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5614
Location: Nashville
Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:10 pm linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
what is ERP?
Enterprise Resource Planning systems...essentially, a combined accounting & operations management platform for a company. I've seen more than one ERP upgrade project run over budget by tens of millions of dollars. At one company I was at, it went 10x over budget ($8mm budgeted, $80mm actual). Multiple C-Level exec heads rolled before that mess was over.

Even worse, on that particular debacle, they didn't even come up with any new & innovative ways of screwing it up, they just made the worst possible choice every step of the way (with Accenture's Time & Materials billed help, of course)
Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:11 pm

Addicted
1967 Granturismo 177, 1979 P200E, 1974 Primavera 125 Hooligans S/C Seattle/Austin
Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 704
Location: Austin, TX
 
Addicted
1967 Granturismo 177, 1979 P200E, 1974 Primavera 125 Hooligans S/C Seattle/Austin
Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 704
Location: Austin, TX
Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:11 pm linkquote
It's a meme but, still one of my all-time favorites.



Wed Nov 03, 2021 2:54 pm

Not So Moderator
VNB vsc o9c VMA vbc VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 6007
Location: Hustletown, TX
 
Not So Moderator
VNB vsc o9c VMA vbc VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 6007
Location: Hustletown, TX
Wed Nov 03, 2021 2:54 pm linkquote
^^^


___________
Quote:
"It's not hard... when it's clean!!!!"
-Vader19
(RIP brother.)
Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:18 pm

Hooked
'62 Allstate, '62 Vespa VBA
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 102
Location: Tacoma, WA
 
Hooked
'62 Allstate, '62 Vespa VBA
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 102
Location: Tacoma, WA
Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:18 pm linkquote
Fritz Katzenjammer wrote:
An old bike will always start first kick when you are alone in the garage. Said same machine will never start without a fight when at a rally with an audience.
An old bike that starts the first kick will never start again.

I had this DKW 125 about 15 years ago. I did a marathon rebuild for a camping trip. My uncle was hauling a trailer, and I wanted to get it on the trailer before he left in the morning. 1:30 the night before, had everything buttoned up, put gas in it, gave it a kick. RINGADINGDINGDING!! Woke up the neighbors. Shut it down, and went to bed with a smile on my face. Next morning, NOTHING. It never ran again. Finally sold it a couple years ago.
Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:31 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5614
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5614
Location: Nashville
Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:31 pm linkquote
Something just occurred to me. BN started this thread with something I had posted.

I just remembered that my daughter has had a group text going for several years now with what's become an absurd number of people that's called, "Shit my dad said," and is nothing more than her relaying stuff I've said to her friends.

I've also had my coworkers coin the term "Chandlerism" to refer to the stuff I (and apparently only I) have said not once, but twice, in the course of my career.

So I'm both pleased and infinitely amused that I've incidentally been the germination of this thread in yet another forum.

Nothing more to add, other than that I'm also told that I'm fun to have at parties.
Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:40 am

Molto Verboso
px 200, lxv 125
Joined: 14 Aug 2012
Posts: 1149
Location: Glasgow
 
Molto Verboso
px 200, lxv 125
Joined: 14 Aug 2012
Posts: 1149
Location: Glasgow
Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:40 am linkquote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
Not scooter related, but same formula for large IT projects: "ask three experts to estimate the project, add them together"
OI! you are dealing with the wrong experts!

" It was only an hour job on the you tube video" (three days later)
Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:44 am

Molto Verboso
px 200, lxv 125
Joined: 14 Aug 2012
Posts: 1149
Location: Glasgow
 
Molto Verboso
px 200, lxv 125
Joined: 14 Aug 2012
Posts: 1149
Location: Glasgow
Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:44 am linkquote
fast, reliable, cheap, chose two of the three
Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:12 am

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 8108
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 8108
Location: San Francisco
Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:12 am linkquote
Bjorn Toulouse wrote:
fast, reliable, cheap, chose two of the three
A classic!
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