OP
@stickyfrog avatar
UTC

Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
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Moderatus Rana
@stickyfrog avatar
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UTC quote
Found this FortNine video while researching ebikes. I was thinking about getting a pair for me and my wife for Christmas. We live in a really hilly area and I'm not a spring chicken anymore so these seemed like a good idea. Maybe not though. I think I'll stick with scooters and maybe one day an electric scooter.

UTC

Hooked
2001 ET4 "Mona"
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Location: South Jersey
 
Hooked
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UTC quote
That's very interesting. It seems to me that training will go a long way. Without proper training, I guess it's a crap shoot. My sciatica doesn't like the pedaling idea. I'll stick with my scoot.
@adri avatar
UTC

Atypical Canadian
2009 Vespa S50(LX150 motor swap), 2006 Vespa GTS250ie
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Location: Toronto, Canada
 
Atypical Canadian
@adri avatar
2009 Vespa S50(LX150 motor swap), 2006 Vespa GTS250ie
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Posts: 2318
Location: Toronto, Canada
UTC quote
Rickster333 wrote:
That's very interesting. It seems to me that training will go a long way. Without proper training, I guess it's a crap shoot. My sciatica doesn't like the pedaling idea. I'll stick with my scoot.
Pedal assist bicycle might not be bad then. You set the level of assist, and you keep the gearing as low as you want. You could have yourself set up so your legs are doing the spinning, good for blood flow and oxygen, without putting any kind of physical strain which could trigger your sciatica.

Then again, I don't experience sciatica so I could be mistaken.

I don't see it as an ebike versus motorcycle thing. In my house we have motorcycles, a vespa, and three ebikes. We use all of them. All for different purposes. The right tool for every job, no swiss army knives.
@xantufrog avatar
UTC

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Moderibbit
@xantufrog avatar
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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UTC quote
Interesting video - I agree, some of this can be solved with training and certs (as he mentions in the video), but likely neither will happen and so the danger gap (if you agree with his connected dots) is likely to persist.

To add another worthless anecdote to the mix - I have seen a LOT of ebike and escooter accidents since they have have flooded the city. And some have been nasty - all have been riders unprotected by any scooterist's sensible definitions. Although I only knew one of these individuals, for those who I didn't my assumption is they - like my acquaintance - hopped on for the fun and convenience without viewing it even in remotely the same risk zone as a motorscooter or even a pedal roadbike.

People should treat these things with respect and they'll be safer for it.
@attila avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@attila avatar
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UTC quote
The danger is not in the type of vehicle but in those who drive them.
For the cities they need tracks reserved for bicycles and so it is a little safer but the main problem of the cyclist is the small shape and his possibility of being in many blind spots of the car driver.
Then too many people are distracted from using the phone while driving.
@monogodo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
2017 Piaggio BV350
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Location: Irving, TX
 
Molto Verboso
@monogodo avatar
2017 Piaggio BV350
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UTC quote
A lot of what was pointed out in the video was specific to individual riders. If you're not the type of rider to ride without lights, or to blow through stop lights/signs, or to ignore all other traffic laws, then you won't have to worry about the safety issues caused by doing those things.

Safety gear use is also a personal decision. The video host chooses to wear less gear on his ebike than on his motorcycle. He could wear more safety gear on the ebike, not necessarily moto gear, but gear that's appropriate for an ebike or bicycle, which does exist.

Lack of visibility to cars will always be an issue, as we all know. It doesn't matter if he's on his motorcycle or ebike, it's something he needs to be aware of.

In other words, the ebike isn't inherently any more dangerous than a bicycle or motorcycle. It all boils down to the rider's actions. If you're an a-hole on a motorcycle, you'll be an a-hole on an ebike. If you're cautious on a motorcycle, you'll most likely be cautious on an ebike.
UTC

Hooked
2013 BV350, 2014 GTS , 2016 GTS, 2013 Downtown 300i, 2018 Like 150i
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Hooked
2013 BV350, 2014 GTS , 2016 GTS, 2013 Downtown 300i, 2018 Like 150i
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UTC quote
Motorcyclists, of which scooters are by definition a part, hear from the beginning about the dangers. Those that care try to identify the top 5 or 10 things that get Motorcyclists in trouble and mitigate them.

Bicyclists are usually speed limited by their physical ability. A friend and I used to ride this two mile gradually steepening hill that ended about a 10% grade at the last 100 yards before going uphill. We were 20mph riders in the flats, but could hit 62mph on this hill!

MOST bjcyclists are 11-13mph riders. Without a little experience at speed, they are completely unprepared for 30-40mph.
@breaknwind avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Red Devil SH150i (10,000)
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Ossessionato
@breaknwind avatar
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UTC quote
I've been hit by a car on my bicycle. Never been hit on my scooter/MC.
@attila avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@attila avatar
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UTC quote
breaknwind wrote:
I've been hit by a car on my bicycle. Never been hit on my scooter/MC.
+ 1.
@mpfrank avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2020 MP3 500 HPE Sport ABS/ASR
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UTC quote
In my younger days, I commuted several miles through city traffic on a bicycle.

Some years later, I picked it up again. I don't know how much was me getting older and how much, if any, was traffic getting nastier, but it just felt way too dangerous, so I gave it up.

Commuting on my scooter feels much safer. I can easily stay with the flow of traffic rather than be narrowly passed by cars.

BTW, I have been hit on the scooter, but never on the bicycle.
@miguel avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2009 GTV250 (Gone), 2003 Inder trailer (also gone), 2001 BMW R1100RT
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@miguel avatar
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UTC quote
Sticky. I've put 3000miles on my ebike over the last 15 months. I've been using it instead of my car for virtually everything.

My e-bike is a Juiced Bikes Crosscurrent X from San Diego and is only available on line from them for $2500 tho they occasionally have them on sale for $2000. It has an advanced controller menu that lets me adjust the max speed for assistance. I've adjusted it for 50 mph but I run out of gears at 35. Most of the time, I ride in the high teens/low 20s miles per hour. It gets ~50 miles per charge. It comes with front and rear disk brakes, a front shock, a REALLY bright headlight that has a relatively narrow beam pattern, reasonable fenders, a bell, reflective tires and a rear rack. It lacks a horn, turn signals and a tail/brake light (tho I've added a really bright flashing taillight) and mirror (which I added). I also added a basket to the rack to carry things. The top tube is kind of high and tricky to step over (I've a 30 inch inseam). Juiced Bikes has added a true step-thru frame option for the CrossCurrent X and I'd get that if I was buying today.

I got an e-bike for two reasons: 1: I've been seriously riding road bicycles for most of my life and the two bike I have now cost >$10,000 each (Pinarello Dogma and Calfee Dragonfly - both these bike models have been used in and won many stages of the Tour de France). But over the last few years, the position has taken its toll on me and I found I was just hurting for most of the day after a ride so I needed to do something different to get aerobic activity in and I REALLY like bicycling; 2: I'd been looking quite seriously at electric cars but I've just not been driving much and its a hard decision to spend quite a bit of money on a car that just won't see much use and my current car is a nice car with no problems and relatively low miles (75K). It became rather obvious I needed to look into e-bikes and just keep my ICE car.

After a lot of research, I chose the Juiced Bikes Crosscurrent X. It's a commuter bike and you sit upright. It is fast but that wasn't/isn't my main objective, tho. But if I'm late for an appointment, I can really move quickly. You can take it on relatively smooth dirt trails without a problem but I wouldn't take it mountain biking.

I have to say that after 3K miles and 15 month, I made the right decision for me. Its a fantastic bike and a great way to get around town.

I really like the pace of being on a bicycle and if there are bike lanes, there is no traffic, per se (there are bike lanes everywhere I go in Santa Cruz). Equally importantly for me, there are bike/pedestrian only trails so I'm not on the same roads are cars. Most of the time I can make it across town just as fast as driving and I can park/lock my bike in front of almost anywhere I go.

Safety aspects: Just like motorcyclist that put themselves in danger, there are lots of ebikers and pushbikers that just ride unsafe. On scooters and motorcycles, I wear Toreador Pants and I've adopted that same philosophy on my e-bike. Personally, I wear jeans, a full-face downhill mountain-bike helmet, armored motorcycle gloves with reflective Glo-Gloves over them, full-toe shoes, a bright red gortex bicycling jacket with highly reflective striping and logos and in the winter I wear a mesh, armored motorcycle jacket under that. Sometimes I'm a bit hot under all that but I'm almost never cold. I'm in the hunt for some armored gear that is open, think gladiator-like gear. There's a lot of this available for MCers and mountain bikers. Also, I ride sanely and obey the traffic rules of the road. I have a mantra I think to myself whenever I get on two wheels, "Ride in such a way that I can ride tomorrow". I've also added a bunch of reflective elements and ride with the lights on during the day, just like I do on scooters and MCs.

Bicycling is important to me and an ebike has allowed me to work exercise and fitness into everyday errands and travel. For the most part, I e-bike 50-60 miles a week. If I'm on the bike, I'm pedaling, even tho I get assist from the battery so I get some fitness int as well. It's been fantastic. If my current bike were to fail, I'd consider getting the same model.

Honestly, I feel pretty safe riding my ebike around town. Probably safer than I feel on my 1100cc BMW. Just sayin'

Miguel
Juiced Bikes CrossCurrent X. Troy Lee full-face downhill bicycle helmet, armored motorcycle gloves with Glo-glove covers (I wear these on my MC gloves in the winter so people can see me hand-signaling)
Juiced Bikes CrossCurrent X. Troy Lee full-face downhill bicycle helmet, armored motorcycle gloves with Glo-glove covers (I wear these on my MC gloves in the winter so people can see me hand-signaling)
@kz1000st avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Dongfang 170cc, CF Moto Fashion 250
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Location: Hyde Park, New York
 
Molto Verboso
@kz1000st avatar
Dongfang 170cc, CF Moto Fashion 250
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UTC quote
Here in New York the DMV classifies a bicycle as a vehicle. I haven't seen it in the suburbs but in NYC people on bicycles get ticketed for running lights and riding on the sidewalk. Bicycles are considered as toys by both car drivers and too many bicyclists. Giving them electric power and speeds beyond most human powered bikes is a formula for disaster.

I literally clocked an athletic looking young man doing 40 mph by my car speedometer. I'm betting that DMV will catch up to them fairly soon. Maybe when a Politicians child suffers a crippling injury.
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
Joined: UTC
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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UTC quote
The safety aspects of these e-bikes remind of the moped craze that went on in Florida in the mid to late 70s. Did not need a license or tag, just needed to be 14 years old. I lived near the beach and they were everywhere!!!. Hell, there were traffic jams because of the number of mopeds. And the accidents happened and kept climbing until they leveled off when the county required a restricted car driver's license to operate . Of course - no helmets, gloves, jackets, etc...no safety clothing in sight. I fear the same will happen with these e-bikes unless the cagers are actively looking out for them.
OP
@stickyfrog avatar
UTC

Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
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Location: Nashville, Indiana
 
Moderatus Rana
@stickyfrog avatar
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
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UTC quote
monogodo wrote:
A lot of what was pointed out in the video was specific to individual riders. If you're not the type of rider to ride without lights, or to blow through stop lights/signs, or to ignore all other traffic laws, then you won't have to worry about the safety issues caused by doing those things.

Safety gear use is also a personal decision. The video host chooses to wear less gear on his ebike than on his motorcycle. He could wear more safety gear on the ebike, not necessarily moto gear, but gear that's appropriate for an ebike or bicycle, which does exist.

Lack of visibility to cars will always be an issue, as we all know. It doesn't matter if he's on his motorcycle or ebike, it's something he needs to be aware of.

In other words, the ebike isn't inherently any more dangerous than a bicycle or motorcycle. It all boils down to the rider's actions. If you're an a-hole on a motorcycle, you'll be an a-hole on an ebike. If you're cautious on a motorcycle, you'll most likely be cautious on an ebike.
I think you missed many of the points. Or are glossing over them.
OP
@stickyfrog avatar
UTC

Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
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Location: Nashville, Indiana
 
Moderatus Rana
@stickyfrog avatar
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
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Location: Nashville, Indiana
UTC quote
rdhood wrote:
Motorcyclists, of which scooters are by definition a part, hear from the beginning about the dangers. Those that care try to identify the top 5 or 10 things that get Motorcyclists in trouble and mitigate them.

Bicyclists are usually speed limited by their physical ability. A friend and I used to ride this two mile gradually steepening hill that ended about a 10% grade at the last 100 yards before going uphill. We were 20mph riders in the flats, but could hit 62mph on this hill!

MOST bjcyclists are 11-13mph riders. Without a little experience at speed, they are completely unprepared for 30-40mph.
Ebikes move them a lot faster than they can pedal.
OP
@stickyfrog avatar
UTC

Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
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Location: Nashville, Indiana
 
Moderatus Rana
@stickyfrog avatar
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
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UTC quote
Miguel wrote:
Sticky. I've put 3000miles on my ebike over the last 15 months. I've been using it instead of my car for virtually everything.

My e-bike is a Juiced Bikes Crosscurrent X from San Diego and is only available on line from them for $2500 tho they occasionally have them on sale for $2000. It has an advanced controller menu that lets me adjust the max speed for assistance. I've adjusted it for 50 mph but I run out of gears at 35. Most of the time, I ride in the high teens/low 20s miles per hour. It gets ~50 miles per charge. It comes with front and rear disk brakes, a front shock, a REALLY bright headlight that has a relatively narrow beam pattern, reasonable fenders, a bell, reflective tires and a rear rack. It lacks a horn, turn signals and a tail/brake light (tho I've added a really bright flashing taillight) and mirror (which I added). I also added a basket to the rack to carry things. The top tube is kind of high and tricky to step over (I've a 30 inch inseam). Juiced Bikes has added a true step-thru frame option for the CrossCurrent X and I'd get that if I was buying today.

I got an e-bike for two reasons: 1: I've been seriously riding road bicycles for most of my life and the two bike I have now cost >$10,000 each (Pinarello Dogma and Calfee Dragonfly - both these bike models have been used in and won many stages of the Tour de France). But over the last few years, the position has taken its toll on me and I found I was just hurting for most of the day after a ride so I needed to do something different to get aerobic activity in and I REALLY like bicycling; 2: I'd been looking quite seriously at electric cars but I've just not been driving much and its a hard decision to spend quite a bit of money on a car that just won't see much use and my current car is a nice car with no problems and relatively low miles (75K). It became rather obvious I needed to look into e-bikes and just keep my ICE car.

After a lot of research, I chose the Juiced Bikes Crosscurrent X. It's a commuter bike and you sit upright. It is fast but that wasn't/isn't my main objective, tho. But if I'm late for an appointment, I can really move quickly. You can take it on relatively smooth dirt trails without a problem but I wouldn't take it mountain biking.

I have to say that after 3K miles and 15 month, I made the right decision for me. Its a fantastic bike and a great way to get around town.

I really like the pace of being on a bicycle and if there are bike lanes, there is no traffic, per se (there are bike lanes everywhere I go in Santa Cruz). Equally importantly for me, there are bike/pedestrian only trails so I'm not on the same roads are cars. Most of the time I can make it across town just as fast as driving and I can park/lock my bike in front of almost anywhere I go.

Safety aspects: Just like motorcyclist that put themselves in danger, there are lots of ebikers and pushbikers that just ride unsafe. On scooters and motorcycles, I wear Toreador Pants and I've adopted that same philosophy on my e-bike. Personally, I wear jeans, a full-face downhill mountain-bike helmet, armored motorcycle gloves with reflective Glo-Gloves over them, full-toe shoes, a bright red gortex bicycling jacket with highly reflective striping and logos and in the winter I wear a mesh, armored motorcycle jacket under that. Sometimes I'm a bit hot under all that but I'm almost never cold. I'm in the hunt for some armored gear that is open, think gladiator-like gear. There's a lot of this available for MCers and mountain bikers. Also, I ride sanely and obey the traffic rules of the road. I have a mantra I think to myself whenever I get on two wheels, "Ride in such a way that I can ride tomorrow". I've also added a bunch of reflective elements and ride with the lights on during the day, just like I do on scooters and MCs.

Bicycling is important to me and an ebike has allowed me to work exercise and fitness into everyday errands and travel. For the most part, I e-bike 50-60 miles a week. If I'm on the bike, I'm pedaling, even tho I get assist from the battery so I get some fitness int as well. It's been fantastic. If my current bike were to fail, I'd consider getting the same model.

Honestly, I feel pretty safe riding my ebike around town. Probably safer than I feel on my 1100cc BMW. Just sayin'

Miguel
Great user info. Considering. I mean I am a rider so I am in that world. My wife is not so I cannot ask her to try one in good conscience.
@miguel avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2009 GTV250 (Gone), 2003 Inder trailer (also gone), 2001 BMW R1100RT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5707
Location: Santa Cruz California
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@miguel avatar
2009 GTV250 (Gone), 2003 Inder trailer (also gone), 2001 BMW R1100RT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5707
Location: Santa Cruz California
UTC quote
stickyfrog wrote:
Great user info. Considering. I mean I am a rider so I am in that world. My wife is not so I cannot ask her to try one in good conscience.
Maybe go rent some ebikes for a day and see what your wife thinks. For the record, Ms. Miguel rejected getting an ebike. Miguel
UTC

Molto Verboso
2023 Genuine Buddy 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1158
Location: Norfolk, VA
 
Molto Verboso
2023 Genuine Buddy 125
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Posts: 1158
Location: Norfolk, VA
UTC quote
I ride my ebike much more than my scooter now. Yes, I pedal but it does have a throttle. I also feel safer on the ebike
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
UTC

Molto Verboso
2023 Genuine Buddy 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1158
Location: Norfolk, VA
 
Molto Verboso
2023 Genuine Buddy 125
Joined: UTC
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UTC quote
I recently sold the green 20". I still miss it.
@amateriat avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2015 GTS 300 Super (Melody: 2015-2021, RIP), 2022 GTS SuperTech (Thelonica; bit the dust 02-22-23)
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@amateriat avatar
2015 GTS 300 Super (Melody: 2015-2021, RIP), 2022 GTS SuperTech (Thelonica; bit the dust 02-22-23)
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UTC quote
breaknwind wrote:
I've been hit by a car on my bicycle. Never been hit on my scooter/MC.
Likewise (several times). I started cycling (again, after a brief adolescent hiatus) in the late 70s in NYC, when the concept of "cycling infrastructure" was laughable at best. The sad irony is that now, with much-improved infrastructure (and more people on bikes, generally a Good Thing IMO) we also have a good deal more traffic-related fatalities and injuries. Meanwhile, out here in the 'burbs, I feel far safer on my GTS than on any of my bicycles, even with well-marked bike lanes. Sigh...
@attila avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
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Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@attila avatar
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
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Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
UTC quote
kz1000ST wrote:
Here in New York the DMV classifies a bicycle as a vehicle. I haven't seen it in the suburbs but in NYC people on bicycles get ticketed for running lights and riding on the sidewalk. Bicycles are considered as toys by both car drivers and too many bicyclists. Giving them electric power and speeds beyond most human powered bikes is a formula for disaster.

I literally clocked an athletic looking young man doing 40 mph by my car speedometer. I'm betting that DMV will catch up to them fairly soon. Maybe when a Politicians child suffers a crippling injury.
Electric bicycles "pedal assisted" in Italy are subject to a strict regulation: Electric bikes, also called e-bikes or pedelecs, are bicycles equipped with an electric motor, a battery and other tools and are mainly divided into two categories:

pedal assisted bikes;

autonomous bikes.

The pedal assisted bikes are equipped with a motor that starts working only when the pedals are activated, as the name implies to "assist" the cyclist, therefore they are part of the cycle category.

Autonomous electric bikes, on the other hand, are equipped with a motor that operates even if the pedals of the bicycle are not moving, therefore they are included in the category of mopeds.

To be considered cycles or pedal assisted bicycles, electric bikes must comply with the requirements of the European Directive 2002 / EC, implemented in Italy in 2004.

The legislation for electric bicycles 2020, in essence, provides that:

the engine at rotation speed must not exceed 0.25 kW;

the assistance of the electric motor must be functional only until reaching 25 km / h;

when the cyclist stops pedaling the engine must stop.

This means that the engine is activated only if the cyclist pedals and remains in operation only if the 25 km / h are not exceeded. Furthermore, at the discretion of the cyclist, there is the possibility of using this type of e-bike even without the assistance of the engine.

Therefore, as regards this category of electric bicycles, the law provides that cyclists must follow the same rules as owners of traditional bicycles (art. 50, 68, 12 of the Highway Code).

For the same reason, e-bikes do not require homologation and do not require the payment of road tax and insurance.

The approval of the electric bike is instead mandatory for those equipped with an autonomous engine and for those that can reach 45 km / h. Bikes in this category must also have a license plate and are subject to the payment of road tax and insurance.

As far as the road rules are concerned, those relating to mopeds apply.
@znomit avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190 Friday afternoon special, Primavera, S50, too many pushbikes
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UTC quote
At the euro 25kph limit road rash is gonna make a mess of your extremities but likely not put you in A&E.
The thing I notice about ebikes is they look different on the road. A normal bike has a side to side motion as the rider pedals which is easier to spot than an ebike where the motor is doing the work and the rider is almost stationary on the bike.
@breaknwind avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Red Devil SH150i (10,000)
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Location: Orange Park Florida
 
Ossessionato
@breaknwind avatar
Red Devil SH150i (10,000)
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UTC quote
My bike crash was at an intersection. Most people making a right on red don't look both ways. They look at on coming traffic. When I got the walk signal, I whistled real loud and I thought I saw her look at me. I started across and wham, down I went. I wasn't hurt bad but she put it in reverse and backed up almost ripping me apart.
I've been almost hit at intersections many times while walking. One time it was an off duty sheriff, in uniform while on the phone making a left turn(well after the hands free law). To cut down on ped/bicycle accidents, ALL lights should be red when the walk light is green.
I now J-walk so I have control of the crossing. If I ever get a ticket for it. I'll film 10 intersection crossings to show how dangerous it is.
@attila avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
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@attila avatar
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UTC quote
This is the best-selling type of e-bike in Italy:
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@xantufrog avatar
UTC

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8892
Location: Atlanta, GA
 
Moderibbit
@xantufrog avatar
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8892
Location: Atlanta, GA
UTC quote
That thing looks pretty rad
@captain_jim avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
2020 GTS 300 HPE
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Location: south Texas
 
Molto Verboso
@captain_jim avatar
2020 GTS 300 HPE
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1154
Location: south Texas
UTC quote
We have a pair of e-bikes, very similar to the style Attila showed in the above post. I ride mine daily, each morning for exercise. About the only time my wife rides hers is when we're traveling and have access to good bike paths/trails.

We do not mix it up with traffic. We have in the past, but feel it is too dangerous here in deep south Texas, with the difference in speed between the bikes and cars. Too many stupid drivers (in this case, stupid = aggressive and/or inattentive).

Seems that most people, when getting an e-bike, ride them at a higher speed than a typical bike. One guy on our island drew the ire of local residents because he was always riding at 20 to 25 mph (our speed limits are 10 and 15mph). That also becomes an issue on bike paths, where most of the traffic is moving at 10 mph or so, and someone riding an e-bike at 18 to 20 mph seems like a "hooligan" by comparison.

Having had our e-bikes for 6 years, I find that I do most of my riding at 10mph, with the lowest level of pedal assist; in 3rd gear on the bike, it is the most consistent workout for my daily ride.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

These are SSR Trail Vipers, old technology by today's standards. Still working great. At 10 mph, I get about a 35 mile range; at speeds higher than 15 mph, that drops to around 25 miles. They fold - two of them will fit in the back of our small SUV.

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These are definitely not a replacement for our scoots. They serve a different purpose. Early on, we tried them for "errand runners," but having to mix it up with car/truck traffic felt too dangerous. No issue when on our scoots.
@rrider avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Triumph Bonneville 2022, Triumph Street Scrambler 2018 (sold), Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3146
Location: Finland
 
Ossessionato
@rrider avatar
Triumph Bonneville 2022, Triumph Street Scrambler 2018 (sold), Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3146
Location: Finland
UTC quote
breaknwind wrote:
I've been hit by a car on my bicycle. Never been hit on my scooter/MC.
I, unfortunately, have ran over a bicyclist by car.

Scratches, a broken bike and a biker who immediately admitted he rode too fast in front of me from a blind angle. I agreed to that.

Still, this made me a more cautious bicyclist too. With that, I'm equally cautious with a bike that is electrically assisted, although don't own one.
@rajron avatar
UTC

Addicted
GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 816
Location: PHX area
 
Addicted
@rajron avatar
GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 816
Location: PHX area
UTC quote
I like e-bikes, following simple rules goes a long way.
Use caution when sharing the road with cars.
When using multi use trails use common sense; Horses, People, Bikes is the order.
Respect and be courteous to everyone.
Obey the current laws.
We don't need more laws specifically for e-bikes.
@scooterraton avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2 - Many
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3165
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
 
Ossessionato
@scooterraton avatar
2 - Many
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3165
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
UTC quote
I have been seeing more of them in my neighborhood and they are being ridden by older people ripping along peddling at a nice easy pace.

I will officially be a senior in January. When I started riding again during lockdown I was totally out of shape. Started by riding around 2 blocks and that was it. Now I can do a few miles at an ok speed but nothing like I could rip on a 10 speed at 16 years old.

There is no way I can hit that speed on a bicycle anymore but then again I don't bounce as good or heal as fast as I used to!
@monogodo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
2017 Piaggio BV350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1086
Location: Irving, TX
 
Molto Verboso
@monogodo avatar
2017 Piaggio BV350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1086
Location: Irving, TX
UTC quote
stickyfrog wrote:
I think you missed many of the points. Or are glossing over them.
Nope.

I rewatched it to make sure.

He states that there are three dangers, Poor Gear, Poor Visibility, and Poor Sophistication.

Poor Gear. This is by choice. He chooses to wear the helmet he does on the ebike. If he were truly concerned for his own safety, he could obtain downhill MTB protective gear - full face helmet and armored clothing. The armored clothing would enable him to have the full range of motion he desires, yet still would provide protection.

Poor Visibility. This applies to all two-wheeled vehicles, motorized or not. He states that it's common to look right through a motorcycle on the road, but more common to miss a bicycle on the side of the road. This leads me to believe that he thinks it's primarily down to lane positioning. Where he rides in the lane is his choice. As a cyclist, I take the lane, as I'm legally entitled to do in Texas. For a year I commuted by bicycle, and never had an issue when taking the lane. I've also riddent recreationally since the late '80s, and have never had an issue when taking the lane. Sure, I get rednecks shouting at me to "get off the road," but I ignore them. I've never been hit by a car on my bike. The only time I have an issue with a car/truck driving too close is if I don't take the lane. So if he is riding his ebike on the side of the road, then he is behaving differently on it than he does on his motorcycle. He should take the lane, thus increasing his visibility. And if it's not legal for him to take the lane on his ebike, then he has made a poor choice of vehicle to use.

Poor Sophistication. He starts out pointing out all the features of his motorcycle: ABS, Traction Control, DOT Tires, Lights/indicators, Mirrors, Weather Warning equipment, and "most importantly (as he points as his head)." While ABS & traction Control doesn't exist for bicycles (yet), pretty much everything else does, and it's his choice to have them (or not) on his ebike. No, bicycle tires are not DOT rated, but almost any tire sold at a bike shop (not a big-box store) will be perfectly safe at the speeds an ebike can do. Lights exist for bicycles. Turn signals even exist, if he can't be bothered to use hand signals. And he can mount his phone to his bike handlebars, providing the same weather warnings he'd get on a motorcycle. He started this section talking about the "higher sophistication" of the motorcycle as compared to the ebike, but then veers off into training/licensing. They have nothing to do with each other. It appears the main point he was trying to make here was rider training/licensing. His statement that it's a multi-year process is a joke (although I admit it might be so in Canada, I don't know, I'm not Canadian). Anyone in Texas can take the 2-day MSF course and get a certificate enabling them to get the M endorsement on their license. And those 2-days are more like 12 hours total. There's a reason why, after the class, my instructor said, "congratulations, you're now qualified to ride a motorcycle at low speed in a parking lot."

Add to the above the fact that almost all the footage he shared of ebikes in traffic was of a-hole riders disregarding traffic laws and riding unsafely. That footage exists because the riders behaved the way they did. There's no footage of ebikes being ridden safely, because no one posts it - it's boring. Just like there's tons of videos on YouTube of a-hole motorcyclists (and a-hole motorists), but there isn't a channel of "My uneventful daily commute video." No one wants to watch boring videos, they want to see crashes, or near-misses.

So no, I didn't miss his point(s), it's that I don't believe he made them. He does state that anecdotal evidence is only evidence of an anecdote, but doesn't, in my opinion, prove his thesis statement that ebikes are more dangerous than motorcycles.
OP
@stickyfrog avatar
UTC

Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22659
Location: Nashville, Indiana
 
Moderatus Rana
@stickyfrog avatar
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22659
Location: Nashville, Indiana
UTC quote
Weird how people can see the same video and come away with different thoughts on it.
@monogodo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
2017 Piaggio BV350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1086
Location: Irving, TX
 
Molto Verboso
@monogodo avatar
2017 Piaggio BV350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1086
Location: Irving, TX
UTC quote
stickyfrog wrote:
Weird how people can see the same video and come away with different thoughts on it.
Agreed.
@seamus26 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 (sold) / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T /Aprilia Sportcity One 50
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2456
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
 
Ossessionato
@seamus26 avatar
1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 (sold) / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T /Aprilia Sportcity One 50
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2456
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
UTC quote
LOL!

"Half a helmet and happy thoughts."

Yeah, gear. I always think about that on my 50 with my armored jacket, full face helmet, gloves and boots as I'm following a bicyclist down a 2-lane hill at 30mph and he's wearing spandex shorts and ... happy thoughts.

There's definitely a crossover area there. Good video, thanks for sharing.
@attila avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@attila avatar
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
UTC quote
seamus26 wrote:
LOL!

"Half a helmet and happy thoughts."

Yeah, gear. I always think about that on my 50 with my armored jacket, full face helmet, gloves and boots as I'm following a bicyclist down a 2-lane hill at 30mph and he's wearing spandex shorts and ... happy thoughts.

There's definitely a crossover area there. Good video, thanks for sharing.
I have been wearing only motorcycle helmet and motorcycle gloves for 40 years ...
I have had three accidents in years of motorcycling and scooter and I have ground my arms and legs where I was not covered but I had taken it into account, it is wrong I know but it is enough to accept the risk.
Already switching to the modular helmet was a struggle but I understood that it was necessary, of course I say this because the cyclist must also go through a path of acceptance of risks and give himself rules as a result. Or not?
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