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How much is a new rod and wrist pin?
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berto wrote:
You guys are more cynical than me, which is saying a lot!

Seller is a 40ish banker from France.
That's it... That was your first clue! Never, never trust a banker, or a bank institution for that matter.... Laughing emoticon

PS

If the conrod doesn't have/use bearing/bushes and it has severe wear like in your picture, it has to be replaced. It will not work with the new piston pin anyway...

Just cleaning it, won't fix the damage...
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Did some nosing around on parts sites and it looks like Honda-san sells the crank as an assembly. Part # is 13000-K33-D04. Availability is somewhat spotty and part cost is about $260-270 USD.

An option would be to use someone like these guys: CWI - CrankWorks

I had them rebuild a few C70 6V cranks, a Suzuki FA50 crank and a 4T Stella. Their work is quite good and often looks better than factory. In full disclosure, I did have to hunt down the big end bearing for the Stella, but it was a weirdo part that I had to source from Japan.

Hoping for a good outcome!

300
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Honda did a crankshaft recall on 2015-2016 models.

Aug 12, 2016 — Honda is recalling certain model year 2015-2016 CBR300R,CBR300RA (ABS) and CB300F motorcycles due to possible crankshaft failure.

See if someone has one laying around. There are a lot of 2015-2016 cranks on Ebay for $400-500 (that might have been replaced during the recall), but I saw one for sale from Poland in the 140-150 range.


There is an engine on sale on ebay for $975, in Minnesota.
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I looked into this a little more and it seems that there are a fair amount of these CBR 250 - 300s around with fried pistons. Almost all of them are a result of low oil levels. Having said that and looking at the small end of rod from your pics, I'm guessing you would need a new rod (installed on the crank, of course), bearings, new piston, cylinder, wrist pin at a minimum. If the cam lobes are not torn up, you may be able to reuse. In the end it may be cheaper to find a donor engine and sell of what you have. Or you can rebuild.
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berto wrote:
Fair points!

The thing is, I am normally very cynical about these things. From everything I checked, I really didn't think this one was a typical blown engine story. I like to think I'm also a good judge of character, which is the real reason I'm disappointed here! I've bought many used bikes and cars, and haven't felt misled before this one.

Oh well. The bike was cheap and I wanted a winter project, so I took a gamble. Obviously, this one came up short! You win some, you lose some The bike was cheap enough that I could buy a new engine and still break even... it's just that I wasn't planning on that much of a project, especially in terms of time investment/hassle!

Can I salvage the connecting rod and get away with rebuilding the top end? Or am I guaranteed another near-term engine failure going that way?
Personally, I'd take the whole motor down and check it. Something bad has happened here and you won't be able to trust that motor if you only rebuild the topend. Honda engines are easy to work on and parts are plentiful. If you are pretty confident in taking down the topend, you'll pretty much be ok with doing the bottom end too. It will just take you longer. In the process you need to be looking for issues with the oil pump to make sure that is ok too. Don't try and skimp by honing small ends (wrist pin bearings). It rarely works long term on an engine like a Honda. Trust me, I've done it and it's fine for a little while but then the dreaded ticking and knocking starts. Only use new parts. My guess is the previous owners didn't check the oil properly or ever and it's run short. We saw it all the time when folks brought in their bikes with issues. It only needs to run low once and the damage is done.
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Agree with Stromrider about just a top end rebuild. That's why I mentioned a new rod in the mix of minimum parts. You would be tearing down the lower end to do this, of course, so you check out everything else along the way. Like I said before, you do not have to look far on CL or FB to find a CBR 250/300 that's down with the same problem. While they are not known for burning oil, keeping the right amount of oil in is critical as it is a small capacity. Now, these are fairly easy to work on if you decide to go with rebuilding it yourself. If you have the motivation, tools and a warm place to work, I think you will find it enjoyable, as I do. Good luck with your project, they are fun bikes to ride and work on.
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Ugh. Tough love, but I know you are all right on this. I'll do some research on finding a donor engine, or rebuilding the bottom end too.

One problem is that the crankshaft seems to be listed as "unavailable" on many of the supplier sites I checked. I'm guessing it's COVID supply chain issues, because the same crankshaft shows up in parts diagrams up to 2020 - it can't be discontinued already?! But the online sites don't list a price at all, so it makes me wonder.

As Motovista suggested, a used crank is an option. But they seem expensive to me (probably because you can't get them new Facepalm emoticon ), and I'm a little leery of getting a bad one from the recall that was referenced.

I'm going to reach out to my local Honda dealer and see what they suggest.
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berto wrote:
Ugh. Tough love, but I know you are all right on this. I'll do some research on finding a donor engine, or rebuilding the bottom end too.

One problem is that the crankshaft seems to be listed as "unavailable" on many of the supplier sites I checked. I'm guessing it's COVID supply chain issues, because the same crankshaft shows up in parts diagrams up to 2020 - it can't be discontinued already?! But the online sites don't list a price at all, so it makes me wonder.

As Motovista suggested, a used crank is an option. But they seem expensive to me (probably because you can't get them new Facepalm emoticon ), and I'm a little leery of getting a bad one from the recall that was referenced.

I'm going to reach out to my local Honda dealer and see what they suggest.
I would take the crankshaft out and inspected before thinking of replacing anything...

You definitely need a new conrod, but that doesn't mean that the bottom end of the conrod is in the same boat. So far all I can see from your picture is the need to replace, conrod, oversized piston and get the cylinder rebored... Post some pictures of the crank if you wish, as it should be easier to tell what you need and what you don't need to replace...
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Burt37 wrote:
I would take the crankshaft out and inspected before thinking of replacing anything...

You definitely need a new conrod, but that doesn't mean that the bottom end of the conrod is in the same boat. So far all I can see from your picture is the need to replace, conrod, oversized piston and get the cylinder rebored...
I believe it's Nikasil lined and not easily rebored. I've read it would have to be sleeved. But then these cylinders are $80, so it ends up cheaper to just replace.
Burt37 wrote:
Post some pictures of the crank if you wish, as it should be easier to tell what you need and what you don't need to replace...
If crank is OK, I guess you mean I could buy an aftermarket conrod and have a machine shop rebuild it? (As far as I can tell, Honda doesn't sell the conrod separately and it's all press fit together.)

Either way, I'll post some more photos once I get it opened.

My sincere thanks to everyone here for the helpful advice and suggestions! Clap emoticon
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I bought a Piaggio BV500 that had a knock. The piston looked better than yours but the con rod end was worn and after doing my research I bought a used engine from an Ebay seller called "themotoguys". They are in Anaheim. Right now on Ebay they have 2 engines for your bike, at $1650 each, shipping included. What I bought from them was solid, clean and exactly what they said it was, and I found them professional and not corner cutters. I also found that they were willing to do a bit of negotiation on the price.
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berto wrote:
I believe it's Nikasil lined and not easily rebored. I've read it would have to be sleeved. But then these cylinders are $80, so it ends up cheaper to just replace.



If crank is OK, I guess you mean I could buy an aftermarket conrod and have a machine shop rebuild it? (As far as I can tell, Honda doesn't sell the conrod separately and it's all press fit together.)

Either way, I'll post some more photos once I get it opened.

My sincere thanks to everyone here for the helpful advice and suggestions! Clap emoticon
From memory, the crankshaft is a one piece unit. They often are on smaller bikes. The Conrod cannot be replaced. However, I've not looked at the parts list. Replacing it (the Conrod) is usually not an option as few engineering firms have the ability to dynamically balance the shaft let alone get the shaft apart & back together again with any reliability.
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berto wrote:
I believe it's Nikasil lined and not easily rebored. I've read it would have to be sleeved. But then these cylinders are $80, so it ends up cheaper to just replace.



If crank is OK, I guess you mean I could buy an aftermarket conrod and have a machine shop rebuild it? (As far as I can tell, Honda doesn't sell the conrod separately and it's all press fit together.)

Either way, I'll post some more photos once I get it opened.

My sincere thanks to everyone here for the helpful advice and suggestions! Clap emoticon
Without pictures it is extremely hard to tell... Judging by the damage visible on the piston, I would say probably not, the cylinder is not coated in nikasil. If you can buy the whole cylinder for $80, I wouldn't worry about too much about it. Can you get a new piston to mate with that new cylinder?

Yes, that is what I meant. Buy an after market conrod and get a machine shop to replace it with your original crank. They also will true the crank as it is part of the rebuilt... Cost can vary.. Here it would cost you around the $150-$200 mark (about 2 hours in labour), and that doesn't include the cost of the new conrod, so keep this in mind, if you think you may can buy a second hand crank in good condition for the same money...
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Would be very cautious about letting an engineering firm have a go at replacing a conrod (an after market one at that) with a new one. The streets are full of broken engines after that's been done. The issue is one of tolerances, getting it to fit correctly and then putting it all back together. Then there is the balancing. Frankly, I've rarely ever seen it done correctly. My own workshops at our plant could do it because we designed and developed engines so had the know how and equipment. Go to many engineering shops and they may say they can do it but the result is often poor. Choose carefully who does the job if you go that route. Just saying!
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I've finally got the engine opened. I did not see evidence or scoring, burning, or other damage inside the crankcase. In particular, the main journal bearings look OK (Honda's service bulletin for crankshaft replacement says that silver=OK; copper=worn).

Photos are below, and I can add more for whatever others might be helpful. What do you all think? I know it's hard to assess from a few photos, but do you see anything else of concern?

Honda had a crankshaft recall on this bike model (but not for this model year), so they sell a kit that includes the crankshaft, base/head gaskets, every o-ring, etc for $275USD. The top end parts (cylinder, piston, wrist pin) add another $200USD. So it looks like rebuilding this engine would cost about $500USD in parts.

Unless there's some showstopper that I'm missing here, my preference is to order the parts and rebuild this engine. Does this sound reasonable based on what you see here?

As always, thanks for any and all advice!
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berto wrote:
Honda had a crankshaft recall on this bike model (but not for this model year), so they sell a kit that includes the crankshaft, base/head gaskets, every o-ring, etc for $275USD. The top end parts (cylinder, piston, wrist pin) add another $200USD. So it looks like rebuilding this engine would cost about $500USD in parts.

Unless there's some showstopper that I'm missing here, my preference is to order the parts and rebuild this engine. Does this sound reasonable based on what you see here?

As always, thanks for any and all advice!
The first bearing pic, it that a dent in the bearing shell or just some debris? What you have there otherwise looks pretty good. I'd get the Honda kits, clean the cases until nothing comes out and rebuild it. Keep the kit info; so if you do resell this, you can show you used OE parts.
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az_slynch wrote:
The first bearing pic, it that a dent in the bearing shell or just some debris? What you have there otherwise looks pretty good. I'd get the Honda kits, clean the cases until nothing comes out and rebuild it. Keep the kit info; so if you do resell this, you can show you used OE parts.
Good eye! Although, I'm not sure I like the implication!

The bearings are cheap, but the tooling is not! It seems selecting replacement journal bearings requires special measurements to ensure correct oil clearances (micrometers, etc), and special tools for installation (hydraulic press and custom fixtures). So I'd probably have to get a shop involved on this.

If these need to be replaced, do I need to do both sides of the crankcase? Or am I OK to just replace the damaged side right crankcase?

There are two "nicks". The first is just on the edge of the upper-half bearing surface. The second is larger, but outside the bearing surface (on the chamfer of the bearing itself).

Obviously not ideal to see any damage here. But it looks relatively minor to my untrained eye. Is this a certain failure point, or is it reasonable to clean up / smooth out the nick and continue to run this bearing?
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berto wrote:
There are two "nicks". The first is just on the edge of the upper-half bearing surface. The second is larger, but outside the bearing surface (on the chamfer of the bearing itself).

Obviously not ideal to see any damage here. But it looks relatively minor to my untrained eye. Is this a certain failure point, or is it reasonable to clean up / smooth out the nick and continue to run this bearing?
The bearings look good overall. I would just try to smooth that first nick down and reassemble; it's softer material and can probably be dressed with a fine hobby file and smoothed with a high-grit (1000+) sandpaper. Just restrict your efforts to the raised bit so you don't affect the bearing clearance. Clean the heck out of everything when finished!

Guessing these occurred during assembly or disassembly and that it would have minimal impact. The bearing shell is softer than the crankshaft, but I wouldn't want it to cause any unexpected wear.
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Kudos to you for taking the engine this far - so, yes, definitely worth continuing on with the rebuild. If it was not for the possible small end damage, you would be able to just do the top end. It may be worth your time to show the small end to a machinist to see if there is material that was built up on it that could be removed and polished. If so, the crank/piston rod could be reused. Just a thought.
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Tierney wrote:
Kudos to you for taking the engine this far - so, yes, definitely worth continuing on with the rebuild. If it was not for the possible small end damage, you would be able to just do the top end.
Thanks! Yes, I got a bit unlucky with the bottom end being affected. Top end alone would have been much easier! Other than the added cost, which is annoying, replacing the crank looks to be manageable too. I'm just a little concerned about the journal bearing, which would take this project to another level of cost and complexity.
Tierney wrote:
It may be worth your time to show the small end to a machinist to see if there is material that was built up on it that could be removed and polished. If so, the crank/piston rod could be reused. Just a thought.
I agree this is a good idea. I've even seen examples where the small end can be bored out and then lined with a sleeve.

In this case, I suspect a machinist option would not be cost effective - only because a rebuild kit is available for $250. This includes all the gaskets and seals I would need to buy anyways. So the ~$150 difference doesn't buy too much machinist time. I'll see what the dealership tells me about the kit availability and then might consider machinist approach if needed.
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az_slynch wrote:
The bearings look good overall. I would just try to smooth that first nick down and reassemble; it's softer material and can probably be dressed with a fine hobby file and smoothed with a high-grit (1000+) sandpaper. Just restrict your efforts to the raised bit so you don't affect the bearing clearance. Clean the heck out of everything when finished!

Guessing these occurred during assembly or disassembly and that it would have minimal impact. The bearing shell is softer than the crankshaft, but I wouldn't want it to cause any unexpected wear.
Thanks for your input on this! It's very helpful!
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berto wrote:
Thanks! Yes, I got a bit unlucky with the bottom end being affected. Top end alone would have been much easier! Other than the added cost, which is annoying, replacing the crank looks to be manageable too. I'm just a little concerned about the journal bearing, which would take this project to another level of cost and complexity.



I agree this is a good idea. I've even seen examples where the small end can be bored out and then lined with a sleeve.

In this case, I suspect a machinist option would not be cost effective - only because a rebuild kit is available for $250. This includes all the gaskets and seals I would need to buy anyways. So the ~$150 difference doesn't buy too much machinist time. I'll see what the dealership tells me about the kit availability and then might consider machinist approach if needed.
one quick look by a qualified machinist would sort it out. It would help to know what the stock measurement should be. It may be possible to clean it up and use.
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Slow going, but progress has been made! (The foot of snow outside means no rush needed here.)

I called up a couple of local engine machine shops about the connecting rod damage. They didn't seem interested in the job, probably because it's too small. I went ahead and bought a new one, and will look to repair as a spare if I find someone to take the job.

I was expecting weeks of waiting, but to my pleasant surprise, the local dealer got all the parts needed within a week!

I dressed the journal bearing (the dinged spot only!) with a hobby file and some 2000 grit wet sanding. So it's time to give this rebuild a shot
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berto wrote:
Slow going, but progress has been made! (The foot of snow outside means no rush needed here.)

I called up a couple of local engine machine shops about the connecting rod damage. They didn't seem interested in the job, probably because it's too small. I went ahead and bought a new one, and will look to repair as a spare if I find someone to take the job.

I was expecting weeks of waiting, but to my pleasant surprise, the local dealer got all the parts needed within a week!

I dressed the journal bearing (the dinged spot only!) with a hobby file and some 2000 grit wet sanding. So it's time to give this rebuild a shot
You've got this! That first ride will be totally worth the effort!
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Well done berto. A friend and I once rebuilt a Chevy 350ci engine for a truck our boss had. Not sure why he asked us, but he did. Once torn down I found a gouge in a bearing race in the crank. I fixed it as best I could, with the basic tools we had, and reassembled the engine. Put the engine in the truck, added all fluids and started it up - and it started. Hurray! Boss comes over, takes the truck for a ride, and the engine seized after a minute or two.

Lesson learned? You can't fix that crank (or conrod).
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Bottom end is buttoned up! Next stop... piston and cylinder.
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The top end put up more of a fight than I anticipated... but it's done now. Almost there!
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Good man.
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It's all back together. And... it runs!

There's quite a bit of white smoke out of the exhaust, which I'm hoping is just assembly lube burning off and residual Marvel Mystery Oil in the exhaust pipe (I put through a fair amount early on when I thought it was just a stuck piston).

I've only idled it on the stand for <5 minutes. Before I'm ready to say it's a job done, I need some nicer weather to get it out for a test ride and see if it clears up.

It's progress, at least. Thanks again for all the continued help to get it this far!
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Latest update is looking pretty good: the bike passed safety inspection with no issues. With this I was able to insure and plate the bike. And that let me take it out for a proper test ride! The white smoke has cleared, and the bike seems to run quite well.

It's been years since I rode a manual transmission bike, so that's been a bit of an adjustment. Facepalm emoticon

I think I'll call it "good" for now. On to breaking in the engine.

Thanks again for all the help and encouragement in getting this bike running again! I'm glad I was able to learn a few new things about engine rebuilds and the integrity of French bankers Razz emoticon
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