Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:35 pm

Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
 
Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:35 pm linkquote
Hey guys,
Still trying to make the best of my Polini box on 8's. Moved the center stand enough...
Bike scrapes the asphalt when my wife rides with me, even more so now that we've both put on the Covid 19 lbs
Tried a shock spacer, but the carb box cover hits the chassis with it on.

Any other ideas? A shock with an adjustable preload? Need 390mm here on the Allstate.

Last edited by Ray8 on Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:58 pm

Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 4189
Location: That bushfire place
 
Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 4189
Location: That bushfire place
Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:58 pm linkquote
Nup... except the sledgehammer!
I've tried spacer at top of shock. Ohh, to fix carb cover hitting frame, sledgehammer also works a treat.
Adjustable shock on high setting helps
I gave away my BGM Bigbox.

Scariest time is going around a tight corner and hitting a dip in road... scooter momentarily STOPS completely!





Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:26 pm

Molto Verboso
63 Lambretta LI 125 series 3, 71 Sprint Veloce , 2005 Vespa PX150, 1979 P200E
Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 1071
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
63 Lambretta LI 125 series 3, 71 Sprint Veloce , 2005 Vespa PX150, 1979 P200E
Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 1071
Location: Tucson, AZ
Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:26 pm linkquote
If it makes you feel better my sito plus scraps the hell out of the belly on my sprint and that is just with your truly (210lbs) but with my son in the back the clearance is like 4". ai was going to go with Polini box.

How is your rear shock? how is the tire pressure, the two combined can have a detrimental effect.
Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:32 pm

Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1992
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1992
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:32 pm linkquote
Stiffer spring or progressive spring.
Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:33 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:33 pm linkquote
Once you've grounded it out enough times, it'll be dented enough the problem solves itself.

I.e.



Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:16 pm

Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4660
Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4660
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:16 pm linkquote
I never did really figure out this problem when I was riding my old Super. I even cut it too close one time hung it up momentarily on the concrete curb, that was an eye opener. And I weigh 160.
Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:18 pm

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8444
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8444
Location: seattle/athens
Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:18 pm linkquote
What part of the muff is hitting and how is your clearance between the top of it and bottom of your floor? I had the same problem with a SIP Road and had to do some muff surgery to fix.

Can you post a pic of muff and where airbox hits frame?
There's gotta be a way if you have a welder and a big hammer !

before


mostly shortened and changed the angle of the header pipe.


plus this to raise the other side to the max.


after, I was able to keep my centerstand, maybe not with your fatter box.
Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:54 pm

Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 917
Location: PNW from LBC
 
Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 917
Location: PNW from LBC
Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:54 pm linkquote
Tierney wrote:
I never did really figure out this problem when I was riding my old Super. I even cut it too close one time hung it up momentarily on the concrete curb, that was an eye opener. And I weigh 160.
This happened to me many moons ago, with a Sitoplus; at a rally in LA. Right hand turn merging into traffic, 2 up; muffler catches on a bump of asphalt - immediatly screech to a stop, both of us go flying over handlebars into the street with traffic and my vespa almost got ran over after spinning round 450 degrees into the middle of the street. Thankfully not much damage to person or scoot. Tossed it up on some random persons lawn, borrowed a big hammer and bashed in the pipe; which got bent back and pushed into the tire preventing it spinning. Started right up and rejoin the rally! good times.
Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:09 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5375
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5375
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:09 pm linkquote
So which box pipe is best for the 8" bikes? Do you have to go with the tiny stock pipe in order to guarantee clearance?? I'd like something better than that for my VBB but it m not hearing reassurance here. Sounds like suspension is key here…
Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:30 pm

Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
 
Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:30 pm linkquote
V oodoo wrote:
What part of the muff is hitting and how is your clearance between the top of it and bottom of your floor? I had the same problem with a SIP Road and had to do some muff surgery to fix.

Can you post a pic of muff and where airbox hits frame?
There's gotta be a way if you have a welder and a big hammer !
Got those!
And what looks like some room to play with on that pipe (see pic). What did you do to the "catch nut" on the other side of that new bolt hole?
Took a pic of my friend on the bike this afternoon.



Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:47 pm

Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
 
Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:47 pm linkquote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
Stiffer spring or progressive spring.
Looking for one.
Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:49 pm

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8444
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8444
Location: seattle/athens
Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:49 pm linkquote
Motor is, or I should say was a two port, so bolt just threads into swingarm... you'll figure something out I'm sure .

Here's more detail:


I cut at it the weld so after deburring I can put the smaller stub back inside the cut off header pipe like it was before.


bolted into the bike and tack welded in place w/ about a quarter inch lap inside


you can see the slight angle from tipping the front of the header up almost tight to the spring
the piece I cut out is hanging on the spring loop


continuous weld all around, but a little at a time so I wouldn't blow thru


ground smooth, all painted and looks good inside - job done
the washers in the clamp gap prevent the tip collapsing & force it to clamp tight
Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:30 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:30 pm linkquote
A SIP Road is the best option for an 8" bike that I've found. I ran that without issues on the center stand with my VBB.

I was able to run a SIP Road XL on my VBB without much scraping, but had to change to a side stand to clear the resonator portion of the exhaust.

I ran a JL leftie tuned pipe, too, and it was fine once I'd bashed a flat spot onto the bottom of it.
Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:34 am

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2639
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2639
Location: california
Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:34 am linkquote
Ray - from your pic - looks like the exhaust is pointed down when you are sitting on it.
Stiffer spring will help - but also may harshen ride a bit.
There is a coupling nut on the top of the shock I believe - that acts as a spacer.
A longer one - or some lengthening of that - so that when you sit on the scoot - the exhaust is parallel with the ground - would have a significant effect in both angle and heigh of the ex. I would think.
-CM
Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:51 am

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 6215
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 6215
Location: So Cal
Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:51 am linkquote
Stiffer rear suspension definitely helps, along with having the correct size extender on the rear shock.

I have a BGM BIg Box on one Super, and a SIP Road 2 on the other. There's slightly more clearance with the SIP. I've scraped both in hard steep twisties, but after a while you learn the angles and the limits. In everyday riding, scraping isn't a major issue with either.


BGM Big Box clearance, 8" wheels

Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:51 pm

Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
 
Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:51 pm linkquote
charlieman22 wrote:
Ray - from your pic - looks like the exhaust is pointed down when you are sitting on it.
Stiffer spring will help - but also may harshen ride a bit.
There is a coupling nut on the top of the shock I believe - that acts as a spacer.
A longer one - or some lengthening of that - so that when you sit on the scoot - the exhaust is parallel with the ground - would have a significant effect in both angle and heigh of the ex. I would think.
-CM
It does! Looks like a disaster waiting to happen there.
I've got a Road 2 on a shelf. As much as I love the Polini, it looks like I'm not going to be able make it work with a passenger.
Tried the spacer nut. As I mentioned, it made the carb box cover bump up against the chassis. Kinda counter-intuitive, but it is a VNA/VNB with a PX engine.
Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:05 pm

Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
 
Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:05 pm linkquote
V oodoo wrote:
Motor is, or I should say was a two port, so bolt just threads into swingarm... you'll figure something out I'm sure
Took another look. Looks like I have maybe 3/4" clearance between the floor and the box. Not much.
I'll try a stiffer/adjustable spring and a Road 2. More surgery if needed.



Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:49 pm

Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1992
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1992
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:49 pm linkquote
If you can find a progressive spring that would be better. Softer ride while not compressed and stiffens when compressed. I had a motorcycle I went to progressive rear shocks so I could lower the rear to flat foot it. Wonder if you can get a rear Stoffi spring from this company?

Replace VBB Front Fork Spring with Stoffi Spring?
Ray8 wrote:
Took another look. Looks like I have maybe 3/4" clearance between the floor and the box. Not much.
I'll try a stiffer/adjustable spring and a Road 2. More surgery if needed.
Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:59 pm

Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
 
Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:59 pm linkquote
Got an adjustable shock. Very happy.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/shock-absorber-carbone-sport-rear_71017000?cr=e993ab67-6807-4109-bbed-f6374ebf9f9b&gclid=CjwKCAiAs92MBhAXEiwAXTi2507JJbgj-Cby3NpJyDm91Ww8WSvgU5Dn5bmnyJ5tpJo77_a6BSvQ8BoC1JsQAvD_BwE

Bought it from ScooterSpeed in LA. Can't find a link to it there now.

No more scraping!
But now the pipe is hitting the center stand pretty hard. New shock and spacer/distance nut increased total length by 13mm, enough to tilt the pipe up against the center stand stops.
Two issues with a box exhaust on 8's. Scraping, and the center stand. Both can be solved.
Working on the latter now. Going to move the center stand forward. More on that later.
Thanks a lot for your help, guys!


New shock with 48mm spacer


Wife on board


Going do imitate this, to include the side stand I already have.


Back to the drawing board. Literally

Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:13 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:13 pm linkquote
Assuming that plate works, be sure to share the template!
Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:30 pm

Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
 
Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:30 pm linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
Assuming that plate works, be sure to share the template!
If you're not trying to integrate the (kinda lame, compared to SoCal Guy's version) side stand I have you don't need a template:
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/main-stand-offset-mrp_22159634?cr=e993ab67-6807-4109-bbed-f6374ebf9f9b&gclid=CjwKCAiAs92MBhAXEiwAXTi250l1MBYYAJAh9QMJ0rXAKgnAJEWzhLjKBlGLxkf3fIRUBZfjIeLd6xoCRmMQAvD_BwE
Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:28 pm

Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
 
Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:28 pm linkquote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
If you can find a progressive spring that would be better. Softer ride while not compressed and stiffens when compressed. I had a motorcycle I went to progressive rear shocks so I could lower the rear to flat foot it. Wonder if you can get a rear Stoffi spring from this company?

Replace VBB Front Fork Spring with Stoffi Spring?
Couldn't find a progressive rear shock for a Vespa! The only one that came up in a "progressive" search was the Bitubo.
Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:31 pm

Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
 
Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:31 pm linkquote
Made some nice progress today.
Still some issues but looking very good


First mockup


Ready to dry fit


Dry fit


Side stand added

Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:20 pm

Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
 
Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:20 pm linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
Assuming that plate works, be sure to share the template!
Okay, been road testing this enough to say it works. I was worried it would rattle against the floor, maybe make it unstable with the center stand more foreword. None of those. Actually feels more stable on the stand. Side stand seems a little more stable too, though I wouldn't recommend that one over SoCal Guy's version that connects via the engine bolt.
I do like how everything goes together out of the frame. Spring connects off the frame
It does slam pretty hard against the floor when raised. I'll probably move the spring clip a little foreword before cleaning it up for the powder coater, and maybe add some rubber under the floor later.

I think it's better/easier to just buy the plate I mentioned above from SIP. It's made out of stainless and a simple bolt-on project.
But if you have the time, a basic welder and a drill, this how to do it.
Shopping list:
1) 2 of 1/8 × 1/2 × 9 1/2" flat bar
2) 1 of 1/8 × 1 1/4 × 9 1/2" flat bar
3) 2 of 1/8 × 4 × 9 1/2" plate
4) Something to make a clip for the spring.

Once you tack things up together you can mark the holes for the center stand with it in place, upside-down. Mark the holes to connect it to the bike by holding it up against the floor and marking the holes with a Sharpie or something. I made 3/8" holes to provide some play when bolting it to the bike.


Holes were made on my machine. Better to fit the plate under the floor and mark the holes with a Sharpie.


Arrange plates like this and tack it up big-time before welding. Otherwise the thin metal will bend and twist.


Add the clip

Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:32 pm

Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
 
Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:32 pm linkquote
$45 on SIP if you want to save the time.


The side stand bolt holes were even crazier

Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:07 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:07 pm linkquote
Seems like a simple enough project and I'm the guy who's looking for things to weld

Thanks for posting that up!
Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:19 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2505
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2505
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:19 pm linkquote
Thanks for this Ray8. I love the side stand I have on the P200 and will probably get one like SoCalGuys at some point.

I'm gonna finish up what I'm working on first, then get back to the 62 Allstate....
Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:44 pm

Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
 
Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 382
Location: Los Angeles
Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:44 pm linkquote
BTW those notches on the sides were to make space for my floor rail nuts. If you guys did it right with rivets you could do without those notches. On the other hand, they could leave room for future repairs.

With both the stiffer and adjustable spring, and making space for the pipe, I'm able to keep the great Polini box.
Took a long tour with my wife to our local pub the night before last, speed bumps (lots around here) and all.
Very happy. Thanks all for your suggestions, guys!
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