Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:49 pm

Member
Yamaha Zuma 50cc
Joined: 22 Nov 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Wisconsin
 
Member
Yamaha Zuma 50cc
Joined: 22 Nov 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Wisconsin
Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:49 pm linkquote
I got this 2004 Yamaha 2 stroke scooter and I was able to clean out the oil and the gas tank and replace them with new fluids. I was able to take out the carb and clean the jet out and the bowl. I also checked and there is spark. I tried starting it but the scooter only started for a few seconds and then died out and did not fire up again. Any suggestions to what could be wrong or would it just be safer to take it to a repair shop.

Any help is help i guess, thanks.
Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:01 pm

Hooked
2007 Vespa 250 GTS
Joined: 15 Sep 2016
Posts: 252
Location: Nashville, Tn
 
Hooked
2007 Vespa 250 GTS
Joined: 15 Sep 2016
Posts: 252
Location: Nashville, Tn
Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:01 pm linkquote
Did it foul the plug? Is the air filter clogged?
Tony in Tn
Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:03 pm

Addicted
2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: 20 Feb 2019
Posts: 676
Location: Norfolk, VA
 
Addicted
2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: 20 Feb 2019
Posts: 676
Location: Norfolk, VA
Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:03 pm linkquote
If the scooter was in front of me I'd be on it, without seeing it I'll post some questions and suggestions. Online diagnostics is a weak point of mine. But I'll try.
Has it been sitting forever before you got it? Stale fuel clogs and corrodes everything.
Wreaked/crashed? Busted up panels? Crashed scooters have bonus issues.
Stock or modded? Fixing someone else's modding gets tricky fast.
How exactly does it die? Dies on idle? During rev-ups? While riding?
Guessing:
You said you cleaned the carb. Did you pull the jets and insure they aren't clogged?
Did you ensure the float height is set correctly?
Check the end of the spark plug and look for anything in the gap.
Things I've learned from owning many Zuma 2-strokes. I LOVE them and owned many stock and modded ones.
The fuel petcock is vacuum activated, gravity fed. It very rarely if ever fails.
The stators are bullet proof. I've never had one wear out or fail.
Never had or seen a CDI issue as well.
They run fine off regular 87 octane gas.
Use only YamaLube 2S. Best value and performance for injected 2-strokes.
Nothing else is popping in my head right now.
I recently got out of 2-strokes and gave all my Zuma stuff away. I didn't even hang onto a extra service manual. But if I think of anything I'll add it to your thread.
Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:36 am

Addicted
2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: 20 Feb 2019
Posts: 676
Location: Norfolk, VA
 
Addicted
2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: 20 Feb 2019
Posts: 676
Location: Norfolk, VA
Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:36 am linkquote
If it super flooded itself it'll have to dry out before it will restart, and most likely re-flood itself again. Some (me included) will catch the float when removing the float bowl off the carb. It gets knocked out of position and causing either flooding or starving, based on how it got knocked out of position. I still hate adjusting floats.

Sometimes the valve needle in the carb will get damaged from gas sitting. The little rubber tip will start to dry rot (thank ethanol) and it will no longer control fuel flow correctly. And again, an out of adjustment float can add to that issue since the valve needle connects to the float.

I would buy a junk Zuma in a second and all the carbs were corroded and roached out from fuel just sitting. Whatever option you go, be it figuring it out yourself or paying a shop, post your findings and solution. Good luck and ask if you need anymore help.
Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:30 pm

Member
Yamaha Zuma 50cc
Joined: 22 Nov 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Wisconsin
 
Member
Yamaha Zuma 50cc
Joined: 22 Nov 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Wisconsin
Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:30 pm linkquote
sc00ter wrote:
If it super flooded itself it'll have to dry out before it will restart, and most likely re-flood itself again. Some (me included) will catch the float when removing the float bowl off the carb. It gets knocked out of position and causing either flooding or starving, based on how it got knocked out of position. I still hate adjusting floats.

Sometimes the valve needle in the carb will get damaged from gas sitting. The little rubber tip will start to dry rot (thank ethanol) and it will no longer control fuel flow correctly. And again, an out of adjustment float can add to that issue since the valve needle connects to the float.

I would buy a junk Zuma in a second and all the carbs were corroded and roached out from fuel just sitting. Whatever option you go, be it figuring it out yourself or paying a shop, post your findings and solution. Good luck and ask if you need anymore help.
Thanks for all the advice, I'll deffiinetly check that float and the needle and see if it needs any adjustments, Ill update this as soon as I can tinker with it a bit more.
Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:46 pm

Hooked
Piaggio Bevery 300 ie - 2012
Joined: 08 Aug 2021
Posts: 232
Location: Belgium
 
Hooked
Piaggio Bevery 300 ie - 2012
Joined: 08 Aug 2021
Posts: 232
Location: Belgium
Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:46 pm linkquote
ScooterRabbit wrote:
Thanks for all the advice, I'll deffiinetly check that float and the needle and see if it needs any adjustments, Ill update this as soon as I can tinker with it a bit more.
Can you tell us what scooter type exactly it is. And if possible a bit of history of your ownership.
Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:16 pm

Addicted
2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: 20 Feb 2019
Posts: 676
Location: Norfolk, VA
 
Addicted
2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: 20 Feb 2019
Posts: 676
Location: Norfolk, VA
Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:16 pm linkquote
In the USA we had the first generation pre-bugs by Yamaha. I've owned 3 of them. They run a vertical 2 stroke 50cc engine and were made in France. Earlier ones had dual drum brakes. Later ones had a disc brake up front. Our second generation Zuma models are the famous bug-eye models. They ran a horizontal 2 stroke 50cc engine and were in Taiwan. I've owned at least 8 of them. Stock to modded and at times sometimes both. One for a commuter (Stage 1 modded) and another for playing around on weekends (Stage 2 modded). I prefer the bug-eye 2 strokes. Mr. Rabbit has the bug-eye model. A proper Stage 1 will make them hit 50mph and stay 100% reliable. My old Stage 2 would hit 60mph and ride wheelies with ease, till you fall off the back and watch the scooter heading towards a car. Fun times but I got into ebikes now. I have been slightly tempted to get a Genuine Rough House scooter for old times sake, or a cool pedal start moped to keep my 2 stroke skills sharp.

Oh, our current Yamaha Zuma is a 4 stroke 50cc . Great little motor and build quality. Yamaha recently discontinued them in the USA.

Last edited by sc00ter on Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:27 pm

Addicted
2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: 20 Feb 2019
Posts: 676
Location: Norfolk, VA
 
Addicted
2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: 20 Feb 2019
Posts: 676
Location: Norfolk, VA
Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:27 pm linkquote
Before I forget! I'm old so forgetting is a common problem! If you carb is corroded and roached out there is a chance the atomizer is clogged. The main jet goes into the atomizer and if the atomizer is clogged (it happens sometimes) its tedious to remove and clean. A friend found atomizers sold as replacements on Amazon, back when Dellorto had an online store called Dellorto Direct. We got pretty good at swapping them out. Just be careful if you have to go this route, get a atomizer for a 2 stroke and not the 4 stroke version. The 4 stroke version will work but not 100% perfect.
Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:05 pm

Sponsor
Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 7074
Location: NWAOK
 
Sponsor
Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 7074
Location: NWAOK
Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:05 pm linkquote
sc00ter wrote:
In the USA we had the first generation pre-bugs by Yamaha. I've owned 3 of them. They run a vertical 2 stroke 50cc engine and were made in France.
Yamaha was still selling Zumas with the vertical engine in Europe a few years ago. So when you see information about the Zuma two stroke in Italy or France, it is always the vertical motor. Yamaha owns both Minarelli and Motobecane, and they changed the name of Motobecane to MBK when they bought it. But I didn't know that's where they were making the Euro Zuma. Malaguti and Aprilia both used the horizontal Minarelli, and Yamaha used it in some of their other bikes, and made a 100cc version and water cooled version as well. They sold the 100cc version in a Zuma or BWS in Mexico and Canada. The interesting thing about the 100cc version is that there wasn't enough room in the crankcase or cylinder to make the intake ports the proper size, and it never made the power people expected from a 100cc horizontal two stroke engine, so it never really caught on with tuners.
Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:26 am

Addicted
2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: 20 Feb 2019
Posts: 676
Location: Norfolk, VA
 
Addicted
2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: 20 Feb 2019
Posts: 676
Location: Norfolk, VA
Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:26 am linkquote
A friend in our old scooter club acquired a 100cc motor from an Aerox. He was so proud of it, claiming he was gonna be the fastest Ruckus conversion on the east coast. But no matter what he did us 70cc Zuma and Ruckus conversions walked all over him on rides. He also had a hard time securing a reliable parts supplier in the states. He eventually tossed in the towel and did a GY6 conversion instead. Wonder if that motor is still sitting behind his shed?

And to really slap him in the face, his Ruckus is flashy as flashy gets! It was a sharp looking scoot! So on rides I would blast past him on my 70cc Zuma made from leftover junk parts. Totally safe but looked like a death trap! I miss those rides. Everyone eventually moved on to motorcycles and the club folded.
Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:40 am

Member
Yamaha Zuma 50cc
Joined: 22 Nov 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Wisconsin
 
Member
Yamaha Zuma 50cc
Joined: 22 Nov 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Wisconsin
Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:40 am linkquote
sc00ter wrote:
Before I forget! I'm old so forgetting is a common problem! If you carb is corroded and roached out there is a chance the atomizer is clogged. The main jet goes into the atomizer and if the atomizer is clogged (it happens sometimes) its tedious to remove and clean. A friend found atomizers sold as replacements on Amazon, back when Dellorto had an online store called Dellorto Direct. We got pretty good at swapping them out. Just be careful if you have to go this route, get a atomizer for a 2 stroke and not the 4 stroke version. The 4 stroke version will work but not 100% perfect.
I was able to get back to the scooter this weekend and I tried starting it once again. The scooter actually started first kick, but soon died out after a few seconds. Like I said before im not a professional on engines but I think this is beause the engine had time to sit and fuel was then able to return into the bowl of the carb, but was used up when the engine started and since there was no more left in the engine it died. My hypothisis is that the problem lies in the fuel inlet port or whatever its called or maby the float or the needle is not calibrated correctly.

You do bring up a great point however so I will definitely check that out as well because Im sure that that will be an issue if I get it running for more than 5 seconds lol.
Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:33 pm

Addicted
GTS 300 SS BB
Joined: 03 Nov 2018
Posts: 522
Location: QLD AUS
 
Addicted
GTS 300 SS BB
Joined: 03 Nov 2018
Posts: 522
Location: QLD AUS
Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:33 pm linkquote
As suggested above, you have a carburettor issue.

Personally, considering the age of the carburettor, and not knowing (no pictures) the state of the alloy, float, jet, needle...

I would clean the fuel tank again and ONLY after that installing a new carb (not a chinese knock-off)...

Unless you like to spend a lot of time restoring an old carburettor, in which case, it could be fun...
Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:45 pm

Addicted
2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: 20 Feb 2019
Posts: 676
Location: Norfolk, VA
 
Addicted
2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: 20 Feb 2019
Posts: 676
Location: Norfolk, VA
Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:45 pm linkquote
Burt suspects the same thing. So it starts, idles and then dies? Does it rev-up? Does it move under its own power at all?
How does the inside of the carb/float bowl area look?
I've had the auto choke plunger get stuck before. I usually just convert it to a manual choke and mount the switch near the airbox area. Like I said, most of my OEM carbs were nasty inside, and the chokes became problematic from corrosion. Keep us updated!
Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:03 pm

Hooked
'07 LX150, '81 P200E, '80 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: 27 Mar 2014
Posts: 289
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Hooked
'07 LX150, '81 P200E, '80 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: 27 Mar 2014
Posts: 289
Location: Tucson, AZ
Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:03 pm linkquote
Agreed on the atomizer being crudded up. I had this same problem on a Honda SB50P (Elite E) recently. Carb seemed clean, pilot looked clean even. Pulled it apart and tapped the atomizer out with a small punch and a soft mallet. Sure enough, some of the atomizer ports were boogered up. Cleaned them all with a Ernie Ball #12 guitar string and flushed the carb out again. Works like a champ now, but I think the float needle is going...carburetor life!

Remove the top of your Teikei carb, remove the bowl and the main jet. Looking in from the top, you'll see the brass tube that sticks up into the carburetor venturi from the float bowl area.

This next bit should not need a lot of effort to do. Patience and restraint are key here. No big hammers and gentle taps only. A rubber mallet or even a tack hammer should do the trick.

Find a punch that is slightly bigger or the same diameter as the atomizer tube. If it's too small, you could drive it down into the tube and distort the atomizer. Do not use a screwdriver, you will damage it. Remember, it's brass and somewhat soft. Gently tap on the punch with a soft mallet and it should push down into the carb body. use something small like an Allen wrench to push it down through the hole you took the main jet out of.

The key bit is to clear the little holes drilled in the side of the atomizer tube. Use fishing line or a guitar string. Do not use hard tools like picks or nails; the hole diameter is important for proper mixing of air and fuel and you don't want to alter it. Make sure the holes are all clean and you can see light through from the opposing side of the tube.

Once it is clean, slide the atomizer back up the hole where the main jet goes. Give it a gentle nudge to seat it with an Allen wrench. It'll seat fully once you screw the jet back in.

Like sc00ter, I have a pair of Zumas (CW50 and YW50) plus a Jog (CY50). Fun little bikes and huge tuning potential.
Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:28 pm

Member
Yamaha Zuma 50cc
Joined: 22 Nov 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Wisconsin
 
Member
Yamaha Zuma 50cc
Joined: 22 Nov 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Wisconsin
Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:28 pm linkquote
Burt37 wrote:
As suggested above, you have a carburettor issue.

Personally, considering the age of the carburettor, and not knowing (no pictures) the state of the alloy, float, jet, needle...

I would clean the fuel tank again and ONLY after that installing a new carb (not a chinese knock-off)...

Unless you like to spend a lot of time restoring an old carburettor, in which case, it could be fun...
Yea Ill probably take it off and replace it. Any recommendations on where I could find a decent carb like this one then?
Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:57 pm

Hooked
'07 LX150, '81 P200E, '80 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: 27 Mar 2014
Posts: 289
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Hooked
'07 LX150, '81 P200E, '80 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: 27 Mar 2014
Posts: 289
Location: Tucson, AZ
Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:57 pm linkquote
ScooterRabbit wrote:
Yea Ill probably take it off and replace it. Any recommendations on where I could find a decent carb like this one then?
If you swap it, the DellOrto PHVA is a pretty good option. The one rub is that it uses a single throttle cable and directly pulls the throttle slide instead of operating a bellcrank assembly like the original Teikei.

The good news is that it is offered in venturi sizes up to 17.5mm and has an electric choke option like the original. If you have an '08-on Zuma, this is a nice little upgrade.

Full kit here: https://www.dynoscooter.com/products/dellorto-17-5-phva-carburetor?_pos=1&_sid=0d04b6311&_ss=r&variant=14119488389185
Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:08 pm

Addicted
2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: 20 Feb 2019
Posts: 676
Location: Norfolk, VA
 
Addicted
2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: 20 Feb 2019
Posts: 676
Location: Norfolk, VA
Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:08 pm linkquote
If you change the carb to a Dellorto (or any aftermarket carb) you'll have to do the throttle cable as well. Then be sure the carb is adjusted correctly. As mentioned a 17.5 Dellorto carb is a nice replacement. I completely forgot all the details but its not to hard to figure out. If your'e lucky you can sometimes find a gently used take-off OEM carb for cheap. If you get a carb from a 08 Zuma it will need the cam wheel ground down, but it might already be done by the prior owner.

I had a mint carb that was from a 08, fully de-restricted as well. It went with all the Zuma stuff. Have no idea how to reach the guy I gave the stuff to, I reached out today. Self employed scooter people are kinda flighty sometimes.

Sometimes Calamari Racing will have gently used Zuma parts. Good guys with a detailed Zuma web page section. Also try Scooter Swap Shop, though I've personally never dealt with them. Again, good luck!
Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:30 pm

Member
Yamaha Zuma 50cc
Joined: 22 Nov 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Wisconsin
 
Member
Yamaha Zuma 50cc
Joined: 22 Nov 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Wisconsin
Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:30 pm linkquote
sc00ter wrote:
If you change the carb to a Dellorto (or any aftermarket carb) you'll have to do the throttle cable as well. Then be sure the carb is adjusted correctly. As mentioned a 17.5 Dellorto carb is a nice replacement. I completely forgot all the details but its not to hard to figure out. If your'e lucky you can sometimes find a gently used take-off OEM carb for cheap. If you get a carb from a 08 Zuma it will need the cam wheel ground down, but it might already be done by the prior owner.

I had a mint carb that was from a 08, fully de-restricted as well. It went with all the Zuma stuff. Have no idea how to reach the guy I gave the stuff to, I reached out today. Self employed scooter people are kinda flighty sometimes.

Sometimes Calamari Racing will have gently used Zuma parts. Good guys with a detailed Zuma web page section. Also try Scooter Swap Shop, though I've personally never dealt with them. Again, good luck!
Awesome, Thanks!

I guess the search begins lol
Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:16 pm

Member
Yamaha Zuma 50cc
Joined: 22 Nov 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Wisconsin
 
Member
Yamaha Zuma 50cc
Joined: 22 Nov 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Wisconsin
Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:16 pm linkquote
Here is a video to better explain what is going on. After it dies it wont start for a while but if you wait (15ish min), it will start up first try. Also, it's pretty cold where Im at so the engine isnt running as smoothly as it did other days.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-Jw-kLdAf1DVTrnp8uGo6znmwKLjC8OB/view?usp=sharing
Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:37 pm

Addicted
1980 Honda Twinstar and 2004 Yamaha V Star
Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Posts: 521
Location: Akron, Ohio
 
Addicted
1980 Honda Twinstar and 2004 Yamaha V Star
Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Posts: 521
Location: Akron, Ohio
Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:37 pm linkquote
Potential easy fix. Just get and use a new spark plug.

It is worth a shot. Simple and cheep.
Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:02 pm

Member
Yamaha Zuma 50cc
Joined: 22 Nov 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Wisconsin
 
Member
Yamaha Zuma 50cc
Joined: 22 Nov 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Wisconsin
Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:02 pm linkquote
Kevin Harrell wrote:
Potential easy fix. Just get and use a new spark plug.

It is worth a shot. Simple and cheep.
I mean yea I guess could try that too
Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:26 am

Addicted
GTS 300 SS BB
Joined: 03 Nov 2018
Posts: 522
Location: QLD AUS
 
Addicted
GTS 300 SS BB
Joined: 03 Nov 2018
Posts: 522
Location: QLD AUS
Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:26 am linkquote
ScooterRabbit wrote:
Yea Ill probably take it off and replace it. Any recommendations on where I could find a decent carb like this one then?
All the above suggestions for a carb replacement are very good...

Dell'Orto are made in Italy and they have always being very good, but so are the Mikuni or Keihin... Plenty of choice out there, but what ever you do, stay away from the $50 dollars chinese carburettor from Ebay. They do fail easily, don't perform that well and the alloy finish is normally crap if you are lucky...
  DoubleGood Vespa Design  

All Content Copyright 2005-2021 by Modern Vespa. All Rights Reserved.

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com.

Shop on Amazon Smile with Modern Vespa

[ Time: 0.0283s ][ Queries: 5 (0.0090s) ][ Debug on ][ 209 ][ Thing One ]