Modern Vespa

Wow. That's a lot of bias towards a group that some consider very biased.

I was riding a Harley back in the 70s when T-shirts read: "I'd rather push my Harley than ride a rice burner." Yes, the "AMF days." Truth be told, most of my Harley riding friends didn't feel that way... you just didn't see Harley t-shirts that read "My ride's OK, your ride's OK."

That's how bias starts. There IS a Harley mystique - the bikes do feel like "big American steel." They have torque that feels like you can pull tree stumps. Nothing else feels quite like a Harley, although all the Japanese manufacturers have tried to build their version.

For the record, I have had 9 Harleys over the years: a couple Sportsters, a couple cruisers, their first try at a "sport touring" bike (the FXRT), and several full dress FLs... never had a clunker; the only one that leaked oil was the FXRT and that was because of an enclosed chain (boot made of rubber) in an oil bath. They should have gone with the belt drive (I also had a first year Sturgis, that was their first model with belt drive). None ever gave me problems or stranded me in thousands of miles of riding.

But, there were riders of other brands who made disparaging remarks. Frequently. I chalked it up to: the Harleys were more $$ than their wanna-be bikes that were bland to ride... i.e. jealousy.

I see that same anti-Harley bias here regularly. NOT ONCE have I came across any HD rider who put down me or my Vespa. And, I have ridden my GTSs to the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally the last 4 years. Not one snide remark.

There is zero scooter culture here in deep south Texas (aka: the Tropical Tip), but there are plenty of Harley riders. Again, not a single bad remark in our time here.

While on my previous GTS, I was waiting for a bridge to close to get off our island. Parked next to me was a guy on a full dress Harley. He looked at my Vespa and said, "Those Vespas are a classic. Looks good."

I said to him, "Vespas are to scooters as Harleys are to motorcycles." We both understood.

I agree that Harley management has made some missteps in their marketing over the years. And, there are some riders who buy into that "If you don't ride a Harley, you ain't shit," attitude. But, not the majority. Most are just like us: they ride because they like to ride. They like to own a bike that they take pride in. If they don't dress the same way you do when you ride, it doesn't make them a poser or a pirate... in spite of that "rugged individualist" thing, they are trying to fit in as they see fit.

I spent a lot of years riding without a helmet (other than in the rain), and I have owned quite a few leather jackets (and chaps) over the years. I've owned Hondas, Yamahas, a couple BMWs, a Suzuki, and a Triumph (along with those Harleys). One thing I haven't done: look down my nose at what anyone else chooses to ride. I don't get that attitude, regardless of what you ride.

As the first to mention Harley Guys in this thread I should specify that I just meant the people who ACTIVELY wear the "I'd rather push my Harley..." shirts.

To be honest, some of them can't even afford one.
Plenty of other people on Harleys are perfectly polite. The majority of most groups are fine, it's just the ones who weaponize their membership in that group that irritate me.

Well said.

I wave at everyone, regardless of brand, style, cleanliness, number of wheels. A fair number of Harley riders don't wave back, but most do.

I've been known to give the wave without thinking when driving my minivan with the window down. That's never been reciprocated.

Talking about waving while driving minivan. I recall years back when the local Virago group was very active, yea they were not too fussy and let me and my Sportster Sidecar outfit join!

Well when on a group ride it was customary if you saw something in the road you would point a finger at it for the rider behind you.

Well on this one ride there was a dead squirrel or some other small animal in the road as each bike came up on it each pointed out. Well the last person in the line I guess forgot they were the last bike and also pointed to it. Said he felt a little dumb when he realized what he had done but thought maybe the 18 wheeler behind him might have appreciated it. Would not want to see a 80,000 pound Mack truck to get in a wreck from hitting a dead squirrel!

I just reply honestly. "I like small bikes. I'm a scooter guy." I really don't care what others think, I know I'm scooter trash.

My comments about Harley riders are meant in jest, as my own brother is a lifelong hog guy.
Anyone have a gitback whip on their Vespa?

Well, I learned a new thing.

I don't think there is a lot of Harley rider bias here. I see people using stereotypes to poke fun at each other but I don't see any mean spirited intent. Just like people in a branch of the military poke fun at other branches people that ride different styles of two wheelers poke fun at each other. Nothing to get panties in a bunch about.

I used to read the earliest Easy Riders mags for comedy. Miraculous Mutha and all that biker slang still makes me giggle. I still find fringed Indians funny, not to mention OCC and SOA.
Other than the Mods or Gregory Peck, Vespa seems tame, one of our leaders is a gentle robot!

The opening post to this thread is all over the map. What are we talking about? Riding jackets? Homophobia? Scooter-bashing? Converting from motorcycles to scooters? Riding in a suit? Where to put your gear? What your storage situation is? What you would do if you wanted more storage space?

There are so many different directions I don't know where to go from here. Even the replies seem all over the place, and I can understand why lol.

Here's my input:

My first bike was a scooter. 7 months later I bought a motorcycle.
14 years later I still have a scooter and a handful of motorcycles.
Why am I telling you all this? To illustrate a point.
What is the point? You don't care what I ride. It doesn't matter one bit to you.
Likewise, whether or not you care doesn't matter to me, nor should it.
Ride your own ride, do whatever makes you happy. That's all that matters.

That's right, I don't mind it, I never even thought about it. Just get two (three) wheels under your ass and go!

Or just one?

P.S. They call it motorcycle, isn't this a step through...

And when do you have to brake suddenly? Are you fooling the force of gravity?

You can only brake at a rate that does not exceed the inertia of the rider inside the wheel.
If the braking force exceeds the interia, then the wheel and the rider rotate together and there no way to stop.

What goes around comes around....

Wilcoyote mode.

Straight through the horse poo!

I noticed that too.

This that old A square is Always a rectangle but not all rectangles can be a square. A scooter/step through motorcycle IS A Motorcycle, regardless of what some people think and people have ridden them over the Himalayas, across rivers, deserts, and Lord knows where, just look into Wandering Wasp to see where that not so very big woman from Singapore took a Vespa.
I have had a variety of motorized 2 wheel contraptions in my life, the most unique was an import from Britain, old Triumph Bonniville and it was the best left handed person's motorcycle as it was reverse to the US models. Don't believe me, go chase down some facts, used, abused, and stiff kick start but was great when I was in my early 20's. Yes, there's been a Harley and a 'rice burner' and more than 1 Honda.
But my Vespas go to St. Louis and run the river roads more than the local Harley riders do and those with 'crotch rockets' rarely even ride down to Grafton. And people around where I live have decided I don't need a Harley and put a lot of miles on several Piaggio rides.

The attitude of a motorcycle owner vs that of a motorcycle rider are very different. Odometers mean something.

This is true.
People make funny faces when they process the 45,000 miles I have on my 'scooter'.

Oh, and I have friends that make my miles look rather pedestrian. Also on scooters.

I was in a parking lot of a J&P Cycles in Daytona Beach with the scooter club many years ago.

Some motorcycle guys were checking out our scooters when one of them commented about Rocket's mileage, I believe somewhere around 35,000 at the time.

I am sure he would be even more impressed with the mileage on it now, but it is only showing just over 1000 after rolling over this summer.

Bill

several things come to mind here. I have found this motorcycle hate on scooter thing too. For a time i had a "real" motorcycle and a scooter. One day i was on the "real" bike in the morning and took scooter out in afternoon. Got the waves in morning but ignored in afternoon, was even wearing the exact same gear both times.

It has been said that some ride big flashy bikes to compensate for a tiny male appendage. I like to think that riding a scooter compensates for having an overly large male appendage.

also one needs to remind them of that South Park episode where Harley riders were called (the British slang word for cigarette)

that reminds me. I had a good laugh to myself when i stopped beside one of those one day. The bike was shaking and vibrating, how to people ride that thing? I think a paint shaker machine vibrates less.

In high school, we had a buck who rode a Harley. Told the girls he named it Climax. He was voted, most likely to STD.

It's all a bunch of bs. There are certain people who live to look down on others, because it makes them feel better about their own place in the world. But actual hate groups excluded, this individual mindset is rarely representative of the totality of a given group they belong to.

When I got my vespa I got the same homophobic attitude you describe from a handful of individuals. But I've had many many more reactions ranging from curiosity to thumbs ups from non-scooterists. Some motorcyclists take a broader view and see us as being part of "the team" anyway.

Ignore or tell the haters to shove off and move on. If you instead choose to take it as a "them vs us" thing it probably only helps perpetuate the issue, making it bigger than the minority of cranks who actually present this problem

At least they aren't prone to prostatitis, and some of them for more than one reason.

The BV 500 first series vibrated like a HD 1340cc....

Just wait until we ride up next to those Harley guys on our Bieber branded Vespas. They won't be laughing at us anymore

Laughing will be the last thing ...
They will be petrified.

Indeed - apparently Bieber swings both ways.

My Vespa GTS HPE vibrates when I'm stopped; moreso when holding the rear brake than the front brake. I feel it in the grips and see my mid-height windshield move. Doesn't bother me a bit. The scoot is smooth as can be once it's rolling.

Pretty similar to a Harley. The two have more in common than most might think... unless you've owned both. Some might say that 471cc parallel twin you have "feels buzzy"... if they don't have one and rely on stereotypes.

Going back to the "t-shirt philosophy," it brings to mind another popular saying: "If I have to explain it, you won't understand." Once again, the old stereotype often used by those who don't understand: a paint mixer.

Harleys have offered rubber mounted engines since the 80s. It is a technology that works. Yes, it vibrates some when stopped (varies according to the engine/frame configuration), but smooths out nicely when moving. After having Goldwings and Harley dressers, I found I preferred the Harley experience.

No doubt some enjoy perpetuating the stereotypes, but something most Harley riders will tell you: the bike feels "alive." It is something that has to be experienced to determine if it is for you. Just like riding a scooter, it isn't for everyone. Much like some ADV riders whose machine has 1200cc and a ton of torque can't imagine a 471cc parallel twin Honda could ever be as fulfilling.

The problem with perpetuating a stereotype is having your mind made up before you really know about something. There are a lot of great bikes out there - Harleys included. I will admit that 8 years ago (after 45+ years of riding) I thought I wouldn't like the scooter experience... had to try it to find out. Turns out it is a blast, but folks here already know that. While riding bigger bikes, I didn't look down my nose at someone on a scooter (or a 471cc Honda) and call them "girly bikes." Because at some point, you may have to eat your words.

For those here who think their ride is somehow better than another rider's choice - without ever trying that bike - that IS perpetuating the stereotype. Human nature tends to make us feel our choice is the best; but, we can't know that for sure until experiencing (and not just a look-see at a stoplight) the other oprtions.

I don't understand why the two wheel world has to be so divisive - in the grand scheme of motorized conveyances in North America, we are a very small minority. Yet, we tend to divide ourselves into even smaller groups: Harley riders, scooter riders, sportbike riders, metric cruiser riders, ADV riders, retro-bike riders, touring riders... notice the common theme in all that: RIDERS.

Keep an open mind and enjoy your ride. Happy Holidays!

I ride both. My scooter is great for navigating urban traffic, and has a lot of carrying grocery carrying capacity, but it can't pull off some of what the motos can do.

My 1100 cruiser has plenty of torque. The weight, wheelbase, and extended geometry result in comforting stability on the highway. But, it's a pig on city streets, too wide and clumsy to circumvent traffic and fuel economy is 1/3 of what the scooter can deliver.

The sweet spot is my Royal Enfield 500 single. Traditional english moto geometry means quick handling. The ~24hp 500cc pushrod engine has sufficient torque to outstrip 95% of traffic, but still delivers better than 60mpg. Fun to ride, cheap to buy, easy to fix, holds its value, and everybody loves it, including scooter people, and the friendlier of the black leather folks.

This business of waving to a select group of motorists, seems to me to be an extension of the self-aggrandizing, self centered, tribalism that plaques humans. It's not "being friendly", it's a way of saying, "We are different, we are special, better than those others".

I wave to motorists who I perceive have accommodated me in some way, let me merge, delayed their turn for my safety, etc. I'm saying, "thank you!"

+1

Never did own a Vespa but did have 3 Piaggio bikes (Derby150 - Fly50 - X9) I am thinking about the BV350 lately.

The Honda does get buzzy at certain speeds (around 100kph) making my right hand go numb. The little Honda is a ton of fun for me. My go fast days are over. With the Honda and its 19" front wheel i can take it out on local forest service roads. Tried that with my previous bike and it was not a fun experience (2018 Honda NC750X DCT)

as for the hate for non "real" bikes. I think it speaks more for the hater than the hatee. There is even the a sub class of Harley riders that hate everything that is not a Harley. (Harley Snobbery?)

I have never looked down on anyone based on what they ride. The fair weather scooter rider is a funny subsection tho. They seem to treat the bike as a glorified pedal bike. Always get strange looks from them when i do the wave.

(PS- As much as i love the CB500x, I am retiring in 9 months and am giving serious thought to switching to the aforementioned BV350)

If you want to really understand the Real Harley mentality what about the way some of the "real Harley" people look down their noses at Sportsters. There is or at least was a shop near here that worked on Harley's. Guy that ran it told me one time that he would work on a Sportster but would not test ride one after working on it because if he got caught by some of his friends they would give him all kinds of crap about it!

In the 70's I remember a subset of Tater Farmers [Harley riders] who would doubt the manhood of anyone who had a bike with an electric starter
The kickstart ritual requires you kick with full intention, "kick it like ya gotta pair boy"
Lots of mocking when it went wrong

You're mistaking the weekend warrior Harley riders for the real Harley riders. Real Harley riders recognize the superior power-to-weight ratio of the Sportster and it's deserved place in the Harley model line. Unfortunately, with the exception of a few special models over the years (the XR1200 among others), the suspension on the Sportster has been neglected and tends to be quite harsh.

-Craig

XR 1000?

The XR 1200 was a replica of the Flat Track XR-750.

https://www.cycleworld.com/harley-davidson-xr1200-sportster-road-test-motorcycle-review/

The XR1000 was this.

https://www.motorcycleclassics.com/classic-american-motorcycles/harley-davidson-xr1000/