Modern Vespa

Harley Davidson are aiming their motorcycles at a younger demographic. Fact.

They need to do that. The old farts, like me, are dropping like flies.

I have had a couple of bigger motorcycles (BMW K75 touring and a dual sport BMW F650GS) , the later one I did not like too much due to the vibration. I have been back on scooters going 11 years now and I don't have much interest on going fast for now.

The scooters are perfect for me right now, I feel connected to the road, I get to do my thing with the shifting and the steering and I get to hear the engine revving and smoking. You also rock side to side on the curves and that is about all you need to keep you entertaining.

The main reason why I haven't got into a fast bike is because I am afraid I would get into trouble with the speed although sometimes I think that I wish I had more power.

You seem that you picked a heck of a scooter to start scootering, not only your scooter is good looking but safe and decently fast, in my opinion I believe that you will love it. You can still get early on a Sunday and cover a couple of hundred miles on a nice route or take the scooter to work. These scooters(modern scooters ) are heck of a lot smoother and easy to ride. That is my .2c

I run into this a lot on my YouTube channel and website. A lot of criticism, until you ask, "So you've owned one? Have you even ridden one? So your opinion is hearsay at best?"

They start with "No, but..." and then they just sort of give up. Hey, listen, I'm a Harley owner too, but let's make sure we keep it totally real here
Yes, you're 100% accurate. Harley has offered rubber mounted engines since the 1980s, but it didn't actually become standardized across the line up until 2004. Agree, 100%. I went from a Suzuki Boulevard M50 (805cc cruiser) to a 883cc Sportster and back. Loved the fact that the Sporty had tremendous character. It was one of the things I listed in the 10 things I loved about my Sportster (https://youmotorcycle.com/10-things-i-miss-about-my-harley.html).

I later sold the Suzuki for a Harley-Davidson Night Rod and it was nice to have personality again. Agree 100%. I love my little Vespa and my 600+ lb, 1130cc, 120 horsepower V-Rod equally. Know why? Everything my Vespa is amazing at, my V-Rod is terrible at, and vice-versa. Between the two, I have a lot of bases covered. Add a nice dual-sport touring bike and I've got the right tool for every kind of riding that interests me. Diversity is a wonderful thing.

God I hate the NC lol. Honda Canada lent me one for a week to review, and I was so over it I quietly returned it to them a couple days early like, just take this, it depresses me. I hated the red line being so low. Just found it annoying to try to get fun out of that bike. I didn't even want to see it in my garage. Decided it was better to risk my relationship with Honda Canada then to post a review about a motorcycle I just could not get excited about.

That CB500X of yours on the other hand. Solid, if not underwhelming, great little machine. My buddy put over 100,000 km on his, taking it as far south as Mexico and as far north as Alaska. More fun than the NC, despite being less powerful. It's not for me. We considered it but went with the BMW 650GS single, but I respect the heck out of that bike after seeing what he could do with it.

If it had the old buckhorn style handlebars, mini apes, full on apes, old tires (many Sportsters tend to sit neglected for a solid decade), or the peanut tank (too thin to get your knees around) that's probably why.

On mine I swapped out the old man handlebar for a drag bar, installed fresh tires, and got a fatter gas tank for it. Night and day difference and it handled great on smooth roads.

Stock, the Sportster's suspension is awful though, and when you start pushing really hard, or you start dealing with harsher road conditions, the limits because more clear.

They also like dragging pegs a lot so expect a ton of sparks behind you haha.

Essentially the Sportster is a platform for the motorcycle you want to make it, and if money is no object you can make it a very very good motorcycle. But for those who want a turn key all round decent sensible cruiser, get a Suzuki.

Ok... so let me tell you what I think I could teach you about South African politics...

... as someone who has never been, and never even tried to learn about it lol

What a very, very, strange comment to make...

quote="adri"]
God I hate the NC lol. Honda Canada lent me one for a week to review, and I was so over it I quietly returned it to them a couple days early like, just take this, it depresses me. I hated the red line being so low. Just found it annoying to try to get fun out of that bike. I didn't even want to see it in my garage. Decided it was better to risk my relationship with Honda Canada then to post a review about a motorcycle I just could not get excited about.

That CB500X of yours on the other hand. Solid, if not underwhelming, great little machine. My buddy put over 100,000 km on his, taking it as far south as Mexico and as far north as Alaska. More fun than the NC, despite being less powerful. It's not for me. We considered it but went with the BMW 650GS single, but I respect the heck out of that bike after seeing what he could do with it.
[/quote]

...this is a good piece of text in this context, proofs it is not only about 'scoots and bikes', but also about these bikes and those bikes

If someone would ask from me, I'd say CB500X is the most boring bike I've ridden ever. It rode OK, but nothing more. NC750X on the other hand I liked a lot. The 'boxerisque' low center of weight, that lovely and unique DCT box...if only the seat was better and ride height lower (I'm a shorty) I migth have bought one to myself too.

...and I like this bias between Honda opinions even more, because I too find the single F650GS still to be one of the 'sweet spot compromises' among motorcycles. It does vibrate a bit, but for an allrounder, hard to beat.

You're not wrong. I have a lot of customers with BMWs. Many fit the entitled attitude paired with low kilometers type that you mentioned.

Then there's these people who actually ride the damn things and will wow you with what they do with the things. These people are super excited to welcome you among them.

I realized I could tell what kind my customers were by telling them I had a BMW 650cc single. The posh snobs would reply by telling me about their bike. The cool ones would reply by telling me about my bike.

LOL. I made a video last month on why it could be the best all-rounder of all time.

Small world. Also kind of funny that we both think highly of the 650GS and yet have opposite opinions on the two Hondas lol

Hey, if you want an alternative to HD you can look for this:

I can't agree on the NCX750. I had one for 3 months and without doubt a dying R1100 RT rides better.

The BMW has character. The Honda has none.

The first rule of How to win friends and influence people is if you want someone to like you, ask them all the questions and let them do all the work.

It will give them the impression that you actually care.

Another real good socializing tip is give them the answer least expected.

Example: Why did you go in to teaching?
Reply: For the money.

Example: Why didn't you get a Harley?
Reply: I'm allergic to Chrome polish.
NSFW reply: I already know how small my junk is.



That usually stops them in their tracks.

I missed the memo on the "VS" part. We all have the same plates. Lets have some harmony in the new year.

Either someone moved Alaska, or your buddy should have gone west to find it. The only thing north of Canada is more Canada, unless you believe in Santa.

In the US, a lot of maxi-scooter riders, maybe most, are old motorcyclists who don't feel comfortable with the ergonomics of a motorcycle anymore. People say an aging demographic was BMWs primary motivation for developing their new scooter lineup.
There are a lot of people who own and ride both, and the great divide between the two camps seems to exist only in the minds of people who want there to be two camps. We don't live in a never-ending remake of Tommy, and we're not a bunch of Mods and Rockers. If someone doesn't wave or otherwise acknowledge that you are on a similar mode of transport while moving in the opposite direction, and that bothers you, the problems not the other person. It's having this crap in your head instead of what's on the road in front of you.

Due to aging populations large capacity scooters will continue to take sales from previous motorcycle owners due to the fact they are lighter, lower seat height and lower centre of gravity. I bought my Vespa primarily due to the fact I don't feel safe with the weight of my Triumph Tiger when I' m 2 up with luggage.

I read Honda had or is thinking of putting a self stabilising motorbike into production which would transform motorcycling for riders of a certain age or stature.

Sorted.

Well this has been a delightful thread to stumble across! I myself have an internal struggle going of whether or not I'll ever get a Honda in DCT (don't want 1100cc feels like more power than I'd need). I love the look of the old 70s and early 80s Honda CBs, but don't want to deal with a clutch in an emergency situation. I love my BV. If the BV came with a 750 engine, then I'd feel like I could drive it on a longer highway trip from NYC (essentially), to Vermont, or DC, where I have family. My only argument for (one day) motorcycle other than long trips, is the thought of being seated closer to the ground where I could actually flatfoot both feet, makes me think the crosswinds on the highway wouldn't feel so daunting. Maybe one of you can enlighten/correct/shoot down this theory for me. Right now I've only got a BV and in my new job commuting over NJ, I can't WAIT until Spring is here and I can be out riding miles and miles for most days of the week.

Oh! FYI, I'm a gay and the scooter isn't even the gayest thing I ride; that'd be my wife.

I don't think motorcyclists will be switching to scooters. Especially since they don't advertise or show up at Motorcycle events. There were no scooter companies at Americade and when I take the Helix clone to events I'm the only scooter there. Until scooter companies advertise, either in the media or Youtube scooters will be invisible. "Out of sight, out of mind"

As you can see by my signature I've covered my bases or the future. A heavy bike, a light bike and two scooters of different displacement.

With all due respect to all you North American riders, my comments were based on what I see and read from a European viewpoint where scooters are more commonplace.

Not to mention, we haven't seen so many small displacement motorcycle options since what, the 1970s?

If we had the same motorcycle options now as we did in the 2000s I'd agree, sure, decent chance that more aging motorcyclists will switch to scooters. But in the 2020s? We are spoiled for lightweight, small displacement, motorcycle options.

Honda alone has almost a dozen options 450cc and under. That's just one company. I haven't even brought Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki, or BMW into the conversation.

These bikes can be had for cheap right now, they'll only be even cheaper in another decade or so. Getting old doesn't mean having to switch to a scooter. There are no shortage of easy to manage lightweight motorcycles nowadays. Probably the most we've seen in half a century, and the current crop are so much lighter, better balanced, and easier to handle than those of the 70s.

Don't need an 1100 cc bike? Honda makes the NC750 with the dual clutch transmission. But, the Honda Rebel 1100 DCT has a significantly lower seat height (27.5"). NC750 seat height is 31.5 as I recall.

Having owned 30 bikes over the years, I haven't found any of them to be gay or straight. Which makes me think I need to buy another bike... 31 sounds more specific. And regarding the crosswinds: I've felt them on Goldwings, Harleys, and BMWs. My "theory" on why the GTS handles crosswinds better than most is that flat(ish) floor that allows some wind to pass through. Or, it could be that after 50+ years of riding, when the wind gets stronger, I just slow down a bit. You'da thought I would have figured that out sooner... after 37 years or so.

If you spent any time on ADVRiders's Battlescooter forum you'd find that at least half have come from motorcycles or own bothscooters and motorcycles. Many of them have done so when throwing a legover gets difficult or they want lighter or lower center of gravity. Maxiscooters attract many initaloy but the number who catch the Vespa virus has spawned a very long thread.

As you can see I own both Scooters and motorcycles. While there may be a thriving population of scooter converts at Battlescooters it isn't translating to the streets. Attendance was low at Americade this year with only 40,000 in attendance. I saw two small framed Vespas and one other scooter, either a 200 Burgman or a Kymco.

This month's AMA magazine has a story about people hanging up their helmets. Some not much older than me. Riding a scooter never seems to have entered their mind. Maybe it would if more Scooters made them selves visible.

I want to ride as long as possible even if it's on some crappy 50cc scooter or something like a Navi. That might not be the choice of some but it's mine.

The Who album you are referring to is Quadrophenia
Tommy is a deaf dumb & blind kid who should probably not ride a scooter

I owned a Honda CTX with DCT for a few months, and just could not connect with it. The guy I sold it to, however, had a problem with his left arm which made it nearly impossible for him to operate a clutch. He loves it! If you do not want to shift and want the size, power, and reliability of a Honda, go for it.

Like the Captain, I have been around for a while and have owned over 50 motorcycles and scooters. I have to say, I resisted from commenting up to now because I really don't know the point of this whole thread. Sport bikes, dual sports, dirt bikes, scooters, adventure bikes, cruisers, whatever, - ride what you like. Have fun, don't let someone else ruin your day. Some people don't wave - maybe they too busy staying safe and riding responsively so they stay alive and can ride again tomorrow.

Do tell.

My observation is that there is some kind of stigma or image associated with scooters that prevents many motorcyclists from even trying one. For those who can get past that, whatever it is, I think most of them only really "get" the value of a scooter once they have tried it. But it's rare IMHO that a dedicated motorcycle rider is really going to feel like a scooter is really a replacement for a motorcycle. Much more likely they can see it as a useful addition given low cost, ease of use, light weight, easy parking, etc.

Hey, Captain. Thanks for the response. Your instinct that I wouldn't want the NC750 is correct; if I even get a motorcycle (very big if), I would absolutely need it to be a lower seat than what I currently have which is 31 even (this number keeps coming up somehow...). It also feels a bit silly to me to have one vehicle that's only for very long trips when it's rare (these days at least) that I make those kinds of trips.

Per the wind comment, I have to say my first time with crosswinds on the scooter really freaked me out but I it was week 2 of owning it and I was a bit anxious at the time of the footing/seat height thing so I freaked out. I'm better about it now, but still I would like to understand the sensation seated a couple of inches lower to the ground. In my mind, knowing I don't have further to fall feels like a false but comforting sense of security. When the Rebel comes out in DCT and 750 or the like, then I'll really be salivating.

Karlsbadd, find a Honda CTX with a DCT. Lower to the ground, same engine, same company.

It's exactly like that around my place: the scooter can only be a means of transport in cities. But if you ride a scooter for the pleasure of the ride, few people understand it and even less bikers.
I am very happy to be able to continue driving thanks to my Vespa; the motorcycles have become too heavy for me, my trips have become shorter and I only take very small roads on which I ride quietly. So I love my Vespa: light, easy, no clutch and great for going smoothly; and then she is very pretty.

You've hit the nail on the head I think. I live in the suburbs, but the scooter for me is useful for transportation, but if I'm going on a ride for pleasure, I pick one of my motorcycles. For motorcyclists, I think the scooter is a more enjoyable way to do mundane transportation tasks compared with my 4-wheeler. So really, the scooter is more like a car replacement for motorcyclists, not really a replacement for a motorcycle.

Having a scooter makes it possible for me to only use my 4-wheeler when I have too many passengers or cargo me to carry on the scooter, or when the weather is not appropriate for riding my scooter. I think most motorcyclists won't understand this until they have regular access to a scooter, then when they begin going out for whatever trip and the choices are my Harley, my F150, or my Vespa, they'll wind up taking the Vespa and set aside their feelings of inadequacy that they might have initially had when contemplating scooter riding.

Just the other day I ran over to pick up food curbside at a restaurant I go to often, and of course I took my scooter. It was cold! Nearly too cold for a 30mph scooter ride in casual gear. But anyway, along the way at least twice families out walking waved at me, especially little kids. And when the lady brought out my burger to the curbside spot and saw me there on the scooter, she burst out in a huge smile and then said, "wow this is the first time I've ever done curbside to a motorcycle!". Scooters are fun and approachable, bring out happiness and joy to all kinds of people, not just surly old bikers.

No feelings of inadequacy here.

But for those who do feel somewhat lessened by being seen on a lowly scooter, those that have the Harley and F150 back home, can explain those criticizing their choice of riding, that they have manly machines back at home.

Whew!

Bill

Or, someone could just carry a chainsaw on the back rack of their scooter to show off a manly machine, with no need for explanations.

Oooooh yeah. Make it an idling chainsaw and an old fashion hockey mask.

See. Doesn't that look Butch?

Love it.

I actually have a spare, non-running chainsaw. Could totally become a scooter ornament.

Maybe do what the Jeep guys do, stick a hi-lift jack on it, maybe a snorkel so I can ride it with the entire engine underwater.

That's it. I'm now convinced I need to keep my 2nd Stellauto and put knobby tires on it. That'll make it look tough, that way the chainsaw won't appear out of place.