Modern Vespa

I have a seized and broken exhaust bolt in the swingarm (It has probably been sitting like that for years, neglected by the previous owner). As I'm switching exhausts I tried do drill out the bolt but in the process I just figured that I just can drill out half way and tap.

I tapped a hole for a M8 bolt and tightened that firmly in place instead of the "through the arm" bolt. I'ts basically tapped in the steel from the seized bolt and not in the aluminium. So it's only held in place by the bolt on the wheel side of exhaust (like older models).

To further secure the exhaust I have fastened it with steel wire around the swing arm (holes drilled trough the brackets to thread the wire trough), steel locking tie and springs to the cylinder.

Seems very solid and stable. Any thoughts on if this will hold the exhaust securely in place?

Assuming this is p-series style with the bolt that goes all the way through, I would heat up the swingarm using oxy-acetylene and use a punch and 5 lb. hammer. If no movement, repeat with a press.

There is a reason why those bolts are m10.

No access to any oxy-acetylene torch or any other heating medium. I might drop the front of the engine down at a later stage to try to get the broken bolt out, but wouldn't a m8 bolt screwed 25mm into solid steel (the bolt seized in the swing arm) hold a exhaust?

No access to one of these? Very handy thing to have around.

Is it threaded in the case?

My Rally and P200 isn't threaded. It goes through the case, and the there's a nut on the exhaust.

Sure. I can get hold of a butane torch. Just have to drop the swing arm to get access to the bolt. I might try that route during x-mass. I guess some rounds with the torch and a hammer could get the bolt out.

It's a PX, so the seized bolt goes through the case. Head was broken off, so I just drilled and tapped the bolt to screw the M8 in the center of the broken M10 bolt. The captive nut on the front side the exhaust is still on there (the threaded part of the broken bolt is not screwed in though).

PS. Any tips on removing the swing arm bolt and lovering the engine in the frame? Disconnect fuel line? I would rather not take the whole engine out.

If you disconnect the rear shock, it might pivot forward enough to be able to grind away the nut, and punch the bolt out.

If you're changing exhausts, the nut is part of the exhaust, so you can destroy it.

Can you drop exhaust, use a heat gun and punch it out beating from tire side. Also try a bit of real penetrating oil. Surprised it didn't come loose when you were drilling it. You did say the other side is free correct?

Thing is: I discovered the broken head on the bolt when I wanted to change the exhaust. The old one was removed by cutting the front bracket since there was no head on the bolt. I have previously soaked the bolt, hammering it and drilling without success. I then thought of just drilling it so that I could tap for a M8 bolt. The exhaust can be removed without any trouble (since the bolt is shorter, I can even leave the tire inflated).

Wouldn't the bolt be to long to go out on the front (hit the frame)? The bolt is flush on the tire side, but is sticking out a couple of mm''s on the front side.

To add to this I have without knowledge been riding around most of the year with the old exhaust only hanging on the cylinder and a spring. Compared to that my fix with the M8, steel wire and a steel locking tie should be a LOT safer. I would of course like to get the bolt out and put the original in, but my question was more about the safety of my setup, and not so much about how to get the bolt out (I have researched that part of the problem before )

The old exhaust is already off. I mounted the new exhaust the way I described in my first post The old exhaust bolt is firmly seized in the arm and for now serves as a glorified helicoil for my M8 bolt.

Oh.

You should be able to just punch it through!

Did tapping it make the dimension wider, maybe?

I don't know if I'd use too much heat. It would melt the silent block mounts.

I did all the soaking with penetrating oil and hammering before I resorted to tapping, so it was firmly seized in there before that. I agree on the silent blocks, so I'm not to keen on the heat thing. I hoped my fix would be enough to secure the exhaust, but it seems like I'm the only one to think so

My logic was that older Vespas have the exhaust secured by a threaded bolt into the swing arm from the tyre side, so I basically kind of copied that with a m8 instead of a m10.

It might work.

It would drive my OCD out of control.

But there's a useful purpose for that big bolt. It keeps the exhaust on the header more than the one that goes around the header.

As long as your bolt stays in there, I guess the exhaust might be secure. But I would definitely check for gooey residue around the header. A sign of an exhaust leak.

My OCD is on overdrive because of this The M8 is torqued to 20Nm. It has a washer and a spring washer. There is loctite on the threads and the steel locking tie wraps over the the head so it should stay in place. The exhaust is also secured to the cylinder with a spring.

Reread the second posting...

Photos of what is left & what you have done will help us.

To get better access, just pull out the big bolt that holds motor in & you can swing the arm down a bit, if you need more clearance, take out shock bolt (but not really need to do it)

Thanks for all the replies.

I'm not looking for tips on how to get the seized bolt out. I know all about heat, penetrating oil and force to break galvanic corrosion.

My question was only about my temporary bodge

Pictures coming.

Well, seeing that everyone here is advising you on ways to remove the old bolt, one could infer that most of these people think your "bodge" is not the recommended way to go.

If you want everyone here to be more explicit about your idea, I'm sure that someone will eventually say something.

I think you performed an excellent example of a bodge. Carry on.

Only trying to learn and get some input here. No big deal. Not like I'm bodging it to sell it or anything, anyway.[img][/img]

I second this. It is what your asking for, right?

It's probably not going to fall off, if that's what you're asking. But I think we all agree that tapping a new bolt into an old bolt that's only held in place by corrosion isn't the preferred repair.

Why would this be what I'm asking for? The internet is a place where intentions get lost in translation, and I was basically asking if this would be a ok temporary solution.

Of course I don't think this is a great solution to this problem, but that was not the point here either.

Are you asking for our opinion collectively on your temporary solution? I guess I'm just missing your point...

I was asking if this would be secure enough for a temp solution. That was my "point".

Thank you for clarifying. That is a tough thing to assess. There are so many factors involved. How long it is temporary, riding style, climate, etc etc.

You did mention that you rode with it like this for a year with the bolt broken, so who knows?

Yeah. One year with the old exhaust only hanging on the header... So compared to that this temporary solution should be a lot safer

Temporary would be until I decide to drop the engine to split it. Riding style is pretty laidback as it's a stock 125 with a SIP Road, mostly town and backroads. Climate is nordic spring/summer and autumn.

Do they salt the roads where you are?

I have an "if I were you..."
I'd ride it for a week or so for the hell of it.

Later I'd heat it with a torch. It doesn't have to be hot enough to damage rubber, just hot to the touch. Then I'd torque that bolt a LOT more. Looks like you might have an extraction setup with the exhaust bracket there.

Next, I'd try a reverse bolt extractor. You won't need to drop the engine to give that a try.

I wouldn't hammer it with a punch from the front side. There are 5mm of threads on the wheel side that are likely toothed- in with corrosion. Hammering from the front risks cracking the wheel side aluminum.

They salt the roads here, but I don't ride in winter. Never ride before all the salt has been washed away by the rain. There is not any significant rust on the frame (some surface, but it's soaked in fluid film in the photo and looks worse than it is (ff makes it sweat)). I have no idea how the previous owner has treated the bike, but with all the work I have done to it after buying it, I will guess not the best

It might actually work to use the bolt to extract the old bolt with the bracket. I'm going to borrow a induction heater to try to loosen the bolt that way.

You have all winter to drop this engine and do it right. I am not even sure why the discussion other than getting other people to give you a thumbs up on how to bodge something.

A "repair" like yours is something I might do if I was in the middle of nowhere and needed to get to my destination; a permanent quality repair will follow every time.

Good luck.

Since the original bolt is not threaded into the aluminum swing arm, that means you could use an air impact driver with a socket on your new bolt. That should break the remains of the old bolt free. The worst that would happen is that your new bolt would strip the threads out of the old bolt which doesn't matter because it needs to come out anyway.

Yes, there are many ways to remove a broken bolt, but that's not the point of this thread. This thread here is about how to bodge a bolt.

"Seems very solid and stable. Any thoughts on if this will hold the exhaust securely in place?"

Yes, it might, for awhile, before it breaks.

I'm done now.

Thanks again for all the relplies!

It's only supposed to hold for a short while so no worries there. Knowing that the old bolt is in the swing arm keeps me up at night, so it has to come out

The tip of using the new bolt to actually drive the old bolt out seems like a good option. I guess I could soak the old bolt with wd40 or tec7 penetrating oil, let it sit and then heat up from the underside of the arm? Then try to impact the old bolt out?

Nothing would make me happier than getting the exhaust on with the original bolt.

I have spent countless hours trying to get the old bolt out without luck, and that's why I came up with the "bodge".

I was not looking for some kudos for my fix, but rather I wondered if it would be safe enough for a temp fix. Should have made that clear, my bad

ps. Torch or induction heater? I can borrow a induction heater from a member of my scooter club, but I don't know if heating from under the swing arm is a better option?

Good luck with it. We'd all like to see it out. Let us know how it goes.

Haven't tried it in this spot, if you get an air chisel and use a blunt tip, it can work wonders. I beat on a king pin for steering on my 1950 ford truck for an hour and got mad. Went to store, bought everything including a 50 gallon compressor to try an air chisel. Set the chisel on the pin pulled the trigger and it fell out. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. My arms hurt for a day or two after that.


Moral of the story, a good pounding ........