Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:33 am

Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
 
Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:33 am linkquote
I'm thinking about a rebuild of my Allstate's currently running but unknown maintenance history engine, over the winter. Which parts need to be inspected and replaced, if out of tolerance? Which should be summarily replaced as part of the rebuild process? Would anyone have a checklist?

Mercato has a kit: https://www.scootermercato.com/REBUILDKIT-VNBLATE. Not sure I need everything? Thanks.
Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:53 am

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 3002
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 3002
Location: Veria, Greece
Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:53 am linkquote
If you're splitting the engine, bearings, seals, cruciform, cush drive are definitely a must. Have the crank checked and also the cylinder. If too much wear, new conrod or crank, cylinder rebore or new. If the cylinder's fine, personally, I always do new rings, small end bearing, piston pin and circlips...
Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:20 am

Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
 
Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:20 am linkquote
Thanks for the insights. I had a list of serviceable tolerances for my '66 Honda Dream, which came with the shop manual. Does such a list exist for this engine?
Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:37 am

Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
 
Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:34 am

Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
 
Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:34 am linkquote
Found it! Here is a 1955-1965 Vespa (all models) service station manual, in English. I had no idea there were so many specialty tools.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vvph3907qmpmdqc/Vespa%20Service%20Station%20Manual%201955-1965.pdf?dl=0
Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:57 pm

Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
 
Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:57 pm linkquote
I dumped the lump. Thanks in advance for all of your advice. More to follow....



Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:10 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11332
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11332
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:10 pm linkquote
I always like to let snoozing cats snooze... if it's running fine I'd say source another motor and build that out. two fold of having something you can just pop right in when you're readynand you have a spare incase a project follows you home!

all kidding aside, you won't really know till you pop it open. I'd do a compression check first, just so you have kind of an idea on the top end at least.

then crack the cases for a tear down inspection.
Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:17 am

Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
 
Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:17 am linkquote
Comp is good at 104 psi.

I am all about reliability and the 60 year old seals, clutch, etc., are worrisome, to me, and I need a winter project. As far as buying another engine, its not in the budget. One of my neighbors has a 1970 Norton Commando Fastback that I have been lusting after for a decade and he is indicating that he might sell. I'll need every penny.
Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:05 pm

Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
 
Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:05 pm linkquote
Figured I needed a little work stand.





Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:40 am

Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
 
Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:40 am linkquote
This is the furthest I have ever been. Anything jump out as amiss so far? Scuffs on piston skirt an issue? Wish me luck. Thanks in advance.










Cover me, I'm going in.

Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:34 am

Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
 
Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:34 am linkquote
I removed all 12 flywheel side case bolts and can't get the cases to split. I want to to force/break anything. Am I missing something? Any tips? Thanks.
Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:03 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5996
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5996
Location: Nashville
Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:03 am linkquote
Since you don't have a case splitter, this can be pretty tricky.

The cases are being held together by sealing forces along the case gasket, plus the main bearings hold it all together--think about the discussion over in CM2's thread lately about axial force across the crank and how the pre-P motors don't have any axial float.

If you haven't already removed the clutch, go ahead and do that. If the clutch-side main bearing is loose, then it'll allow the crank to pull out with the crank.

Next, make sure all the case bolts are out. The long one by the swingarm in particular tends to freeze in place and will hold the motor shut when it does.

Once you've removed all the mechanical impediments you can get from the outside, heat up the fly side bearing seat to help it release (where I circled in you image), then you just have to work it.

Use the kickstart lever to help it along, too. Sadly, other than having the factory tool, there's not much to do here but keep at it. It'll come apart. Depending on how stuck together the case gasket it, though, like if someone used RTV or Hondabond, it can be pretty stuck together.

There's a small tab on the bottom of the cases, down by the oil plug, that you can tap on (really, JUST tap) to help it along, but whatever you do, resist the urge to pry it apart once you get a small gap between the cases. Unless you like oil leaks. In that case, knock yourself out.

Splitting pre-P cases is definitely not really a great introduction to working on these motors, but once you get going, it'll be fine.



Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:30 pm

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 6439
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 6439
Location: So Cal
Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:30 pm linkquote
See the 3 holes where the stator mounts?

Either get an old stator or cut some flat metal stock and bolt it to those holes. Then use one of these and pull the cases apart.

Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:14 pm

Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
 
Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:14 pm linkquote
I have one of those pullers. I was thinking that it would just rip the stator bolts right out of the aluminum case? No?
Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:08 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11332
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11332
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:08 pm linkquote
well... somebody's been in there at some point and it doesn't look like too long ago.

the scuffing on the piston is due to the clearance not being correct or getting after it before the motor is warmed up.

I'd probably dress the down and check the side clearance and ring gap. rings if needed and throw a hone at it.

on the cases, heat. heat. heat. use a long punch and a moderately sized hammer to tap the cases apart from the bottom tab and at the flat on the upper part of the case by the spigot. tap. tap. tap. back and forth. key here is percussive hits, so no dead blows or mallets. use a hard plastic mallet to tap around the circumference of the case at the gasket seal while doing this can help as well.

between that, and heat and jacking the kickstart sharply you should be able to get them cracked.

if you wind up using the puller, try applying some tension first and then heat and tapping as above. don't go full tilt right out of the box, especially with a cobbled together tool. that's how you break stuff.

either way, put the crank nut back on the snout to protect the threads and so you don't mushroom out the end.
Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:35 pm

Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
 
Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:35 pm linkquote
greasy125 wrote:
the scuffing on the piston is due to the clearance not being correct....... I'd probably dress the down and check the side clearance
Not sure I understand. 'Splane?
Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:36 pm

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 6439
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 6439
Location: So Cal
Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:36 pm linkquote
garncarz wrote:
I have one of those pullers. I was thinking that it would just rip the stator bolts right out of the aluminum case? No?
Done it several times, never had a bolt pull out. A quarter turn and a little heat is normally all it takes. You can also bolt a plate or a piece or 1x6 directly to the case and pull on that. It's not rocket surgery. Just go slow and resist the urge to pry.
Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:45 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11332
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11332
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:45 pm linkquote
garncarz wrote:
Not sure I understand. 'Splane?
piston to barrel clearance not correct. or possibly bore is not done properly. could also be heat cycle related.

aluminum and cast expand at different rates. aluminum faster than cast iron thus the scuffs. if the bore clearance is not correct they share a sweet embrace, but for a moment.
Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:33 pm

Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
 
Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:33 pm linkquote
SoCalGuy wrote:
See the 3 holes where the stator mounts?

Either get an old stator or cut some flat metal stock and bolt it to those holes. Then use one of these and pull the cases apart.

........................................................................

Worked like a charm. I'm in. Thanks. How does it look?







Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:53 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5996
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5996
Location: Nashville
Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:53 pm linkquote
Glad you got it open!

How's the rotary pad look?
Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:02 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11332
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Posts: 11332
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:02 pm linkquote
looks super clean. check the pad and the gears.

might be a quick and dirty semi-soft parts rebuild!
Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:26 am

Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
 
Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:26 am linkquote
I am still waiting for my clutch castle nut wrench (fucking piaggio) to arrive, so its hard to get a good image of the pad. From what I see it looks fairly clean, no?

1.The ends of the cruciform are rounded.
2. A lot of endplay on first gear. Need a thicker shim?
3. 1st and 2nd gear have some wear. Thoughts?
4. Kick start gear has wear.
5. Measured 0.122" wobble in end of the main shaft. Is there a way to remove the castle nut on the clutch side of the main shaft or do I need another specialty tool?

So, what else should I be inspecting? Anyone have a list?









Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:39 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5996
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5996
Location: Nashville
Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:39 am linkquote
First, replace the castle nut on the clutch with a proper hex nut--we just covered this in another thread yesterday

The rest of it is, as Greasy said, replacing the semi-soft parts.

The cruciform should pretty much always be replaced, and that kick start gear is as worn as I can ever recall seeing.

The gear wear doesn't bother me, just get some shims as you already surmised.

You'll also want to replace all the bearings, plus the piston rings.

But from what little we can see of it, that rotary pad looks absolutely pristine!

That motor will rebuild really nicely.
Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:45 am

Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
 
Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:45 am linkquote
Thanks, that's good news. What about the large wobble in the mainshaft?
Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:55 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5996
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5996
Location: Nashville
Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:55 am linkquote
garncarz wrote:
Thanks, that's good news. What about the large wobble in the mainshaft?
mainshaft == axle?

There *is* a specialty tool, but you can also possibly get it off and back on with a hammer and a large screwdriver. I did a video where I do it because the SIP tool for that nut doesn't work when the axle is in the bike.

Anyways...jump to 2:10 if you want to see how I did it a while back. And it's reverse-threaded, so remember that when you go after it.

Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:55 am

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11332
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11332
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:55 am linkquote
garncarz wrote:
Thanks, that's good news. What about the large wobble in the mainshaft?
there should be some play. especially without the fly side of it supported.
Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:01 am

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11332
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Posts: 11332
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:01 am linkquote
garncarz wrote:
I am still waiting for my clutch castle nut wrench (fucking piaggio) to arrive, so its hard to get a good image of the pad. From what I see it looks fairly clean, no?

1.The ends of the cruciform are rounded.
2. A lot of endplay on first gear. Need a thicker shim?
3. 1st and 2nd gear have some wear. Thoughts?
4. Kick start gear has wear.
5. Measured 0.122" wobble in end of the main shaft. Is there a way to remove the castle nut on the clutch side of the main shaft or do I need another specialty tool?

So, what else should I be inspecting? Anyone have a list?
1- replace the cross when the cases are open, ALWAYS*
2-shim it
3- show us the wear!! might be inconsequential, a little wear is okay with a fresh cross. rounded and chipped is no soy fiesta
4- replace kick start gear same as cross, and pop in a new spring too!
5- there is a special tool, but a good punch or BFS works too. heat is your friend and remember that it is reverse thread!

*unless you have to open them back up because you forgot the kickstart gear

Last edited by greasy125 on Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:07 am; edited 1 time in total
Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:05 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5996
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5996
Location: Nashville
Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:05 am linkquote
greasy125 wrote:
1- replace the cross when the cases are open, ALWAYS*
2-shim it
3- show us the wear!! might be inconsequential, a little wear is okay with a fresh cross. rounded and chipped is no soy fiesta
4- replace kick start gear same as cross, and pop in a new spring too!
5- there is a special tool, but a good punch or BFS works too. heat is your friend and remember that it is reverse thread!
Check the second picture for the gear wear, G. It's pretty minor.

And he's got the leaf spring for the kickstart spring, so maybe try bending it out a little bit?

Also, you can drive the axle out with a punch while that castle nut is in place.
Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:06 am

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11332
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Posts: 11332
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:06 am linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
First, replace the castle nut on the clutch with a proper hex nut--we just covered this in another thread yesterday

The rest of it is, as Greasy said, replacing the semi-soft parts.

The cruciform should pretty much always be replaced, and that kick start gear is as worn as I can ever recall seeing.

The gear wear doesn't bother me, just get some shims as you already surmised.

You'll also want to replace all the bearings, plus the piston rings.

But from what little we can see of it, that rotary pad looks absolutely pristine!

That motor will rebuild really nicely.
I don't know if I'd do rings, I guess it depends on what the barrel looks like. I mean there's virtually no blow by and a quick gap check would be the tell. however, the initial compression was a little low at 105... but a quick hone might bring it back. I've seen weirder things and I've seen wayyy worse run...
Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:08 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5996
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5996
Location: Nashville
Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:08 am linkquote
greasy125 wrote:
I don't know if I'd do rings, I guess it depends on what the barrel looks like. I mean there's virtually no blow by and a quick gap check would be the tell. however, the initial compression was a little low at 105... but a quick hone might bring it back. I've seen weirder things and I've seen wayyy worse run...
Good point. I was focusing on the compression. Didn't consider honing as an option.
Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:09 am

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11332
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11332
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:09 am linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
Check the second picture for the gear wear, G. It's pretty minor.

And he's got the leaf spring for the kickstart spring, so maybe try bending it out a little bit?

Also, you can drive the axle out with a punch while that castle nut is in place.
I'd just thought of the leaf for the K/S gear. duh. yeah, maybe a little tug on that bad boy.

what concerns me is the wear on the gear. I'd like to know what the engagement on the tree looks like.
Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:57 am

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11332
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:57 am linkquote
list:

gaskets: case, base, shifter box + all the carb shit (just order two sets in the event you maul something)
seals: fly side, clutch side, axle
o-rings: clutch cover, clutch arm, brake backing plate, kickstart quad
bearings: clutch and flyside crank, axle, fly side axle, cush drive, cush drive loose needles, little end bearing

drive bits:
cush drive rebuild. this one is up to you. if you notice hard engagement when shifting gears or it sounds like a maraca rebuild it. if the K/S engagement is chawed up replace the tree or the whole assembly.
kickstart gear (spring if present, otherwise manhandle the leaf)
kickstart spring (the big one) still tight and springy? move on ahead then.
kickstart quad, check the toofs and the splines. all bueno then move on.
cross (always)
plunger if worn or ragged out
lock/tab washer (and bolt if worn at the stirrup)
gears, check wear. rounded or chipped lands are trash as are worn or chipped teeth.
axle check the threads, splines and wear surfaces for the bearings and seals.
shim up the gears according to spec.
check the shifter box and rebuild or replace if sloppy
clutch corks
clutch steels
clutch springs
bronze back plate bush
brass back plate bush
plunger, press plate and spring (order the correct one there's an O and D shape)
check the clutch arm lever and replace if worn
inspect the other bits of the clutch and replace as necessary (basket, back plate, drive, etc)
clutch nut and tab washer (or upgrade to hex nut and washer)

points and condenser and that little felt pad if you're feeling frisky. good to have it all on hand anyway.

misc. (ie the grab bag of shit you forgot to order)

-needle rollers for the cush
-kick start buffers (just like the cross)
-tab/lock washer for the cush, also don't lose the special washer that goes with it.
-woodruff keys for clutch and flywheel (buy two so that when you drop one on the floor and can't find it you'll have a spare)
-seals for the oil plugs (order a few to have on hand)
-cotter pin for wheel (samesies order a few)
-if you're this far in, throw some fresh o-rings at the brake cam and a new clutch adjuster
-hardware for the shit you'll lose or beat up: case nuts and washers, oil plug, shroud screws, brake shoe retaining clips, stator attachment hardware, washers and nuts for the top end, cable adjusters
-all the rubber for the carb and fuel line and frame grommets, it's out do it now.
-if you want to do rings, get them too
-if you have your piston off or have disturbed the circlips then order new ones. never reuse the circlips.

alright. I think that covers it. I probably forgot something but that should at least limit the amount of times you get stuck and have to order again!
Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:01 am

Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
 
Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:01 am linkquote
G: You da man! Thanks.
Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:12 am

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11332
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11332
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:12 am linkquote
truthfully, you could probably get by with about 1/3 of that.

gasket kits (order two)
bearings
seals
o-rings (the good gasket kits come with them)
cross and tab washer
clutch corks and steels, bronze bush, brass washer and plunger/press plate
kickstart gear and buffers
throw in some woodruff keys and tab washers and call it done.

if you wanna party with the piston add some rings and circlips.

inspect your gears first. if they pass muster, then spec them out so you know what shim to add to your order so you're not waiting on that nonsense!

you got this bro! we have your back!
Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:57 pm

Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
 
Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:57 pm linkquote
I ordered almost a paycheck's worth from Mercato. Pulled most everything from the flyside case and wiped it down with trike. Looks pretty decent, no?

Anyone know the service tolerance for the gear stack? I currently have a 2.0mm shim in place and it looks like I could put another 2.0 mm in.



Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:05 pm

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 3002
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 3002
Location: Veria, Greece
Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:05 pm linkquote
0,15mm - 0,40mm. Don't put two shims in, get a thicker one…
Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:00 am

Molto Verboso
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 1390
Location: PNW from LBC
 
Molto Verboso
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 1390
Location: PNW from LBC
Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:00 am linkquote
SaFiS wrote:
0,15mm - 0,40mm. Don't put two shims in, get a thicker one…
^^^^^^^
Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:20 am

Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
 
Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 431
Location: York, PA
Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:20 am linkquote
I should have written down which side of each of the gear went in and out. But I didn't (I'm a dumb shit). Can I get some training? Thanks.
Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:21 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5993
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5993
Location: San Diego, CA
Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:21 am linkquote
useful reference:

Gear spacing?

next time do the zip tie trick, it really does save head scratching. God I miss Vader.
Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:19 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5996
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5996
Location: Nashville
Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:19 am linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
useful reference:

Gear spacing?

next time do the zip tie trick, it really does save head scratching. God I miss Vader.
Big time. I always zip tie my gears. I have one waiting before I even pull them off the drive shaft, because one time I carefully took them off and stacked them, then promptly kicked the stack and sent them rolling when I stood up to get a zip tie. Doh.
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