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greasy125 wrote:
a little rattle is okay. big nasty knocking sound is bad.

hold the rod with the webs dangling and loose (gah, I can't believe I just wrote that) and give it a few pops with the palm of your hand on the little end. if it rings, you probably need a new big end. if it thumps you're good.

but, given that it came out of a running bike if it wasn't making an ass ton of sound I'd just shove it right back in.
Thanks, G. No ringing. Sorry for the flurry of questions. This is my first time this deep and I'm a little nervous.
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garncarz wrote:
Thanks, G. No ringing. Sorry for the flurry of questions. This is my first time this deep and I'm a little nervous.
It's all good. Everyone had to learn this stuff at some point. Heck, I still learn stuff on here damn near every day.

What matters is that you're doing it, and we're here as much as we can be over the net.
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I knew they did, I just never take advantage of it, since I know at my stage of commitment, if I need it once, I'll need it again.

It's a great point, though, and something that we should call out to newcomers who aren't tooled up yet.
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I got all the new case bearings in.

Didn't need the bearing driver at all. I put the bearings in the freezer over night. Transferred them to my shop in a cooler full of ice. Heated the case around the bearing to ~150 degrees with my map torch. Literally dropped the bearings in the holes and when they warmed up they were stuck tight. I guess physics works.
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garncarz wrote:
I got all the new case bearings in.

Didn't need the bearing driver at all. I put the bearings in the freezer over night. Transferred them to my shop in a cooler full of ice. Heated the case around the bearing to ~150 degrees with my map torch. Literally dropped the bearings in the holes and when they warmed up they were stuck tight. I guess physics works.
My recipe for Crankcase a' la Bearings is to thoroughly clean the case prior to baking. Place the case section in the oven, then preheat to 350F. Once the oven signals that it has hit temperature, set a timer for ten minutes. Grab the welding gloves and lay out the bearings you need to install. When the timer goes off, remove the crankcase with gloves and set on the stovetop. Simply snap the bearings in and allow the assembly to cool to room temperature. Ready to serve!
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Yeah, right. My wife was pissed enough when I put the cases in the dishwasher.
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garncarz wrote:
Yeah, right. My wife was pissed enough when I put the cases in the dishwasher.
Cases in the oven aren't that bad. I caught hell for curing high temp paint in the oven, though. That smells up the whole house.
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Got the seals in on the clutch side. Anything look amiss? Also, is there supposed to be a plastic oil splasher?

On to the fly side.....Could they have made the selector rod bearing more difficult? I greased it all up and finally got the rollers to stay in place after 4 tries. This bearing gets pressed in washer first, correct?
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That bearing is the biggest PITA.

I think we had almost a full page on installation methods on my shitbox rebuild.

What worked for me was pressing in the washer and bearing race and then placing in the rollers once the races were in the case. Last bit was sliding the cage in carefully. Pretty tedious for sure.

More- Method for seating rollers in Selector bearing
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Here's the process I used:

1. Heavily grease the inside of the race.
2. Insert the rollers into the grease (evenly-ish spaced).
3. Squeeze the cage so it is now smaller than the ID of the roller group and insert into the race.
3a. Fiddle around with the rollers until they are in the cage.
4. Cut a 1/4" long piece of 3/4" pvc pipe and wrap with 4 turns of electrical tape.
5. Put the washer on top.
6. Insert the pipe section inside the bearing cage.
7. Holding the washer on top of the bearing, dunk the whole thing in a glass of water (stick with me).
8. Put the bearing on a shelf in your freezer, overnight.
9. Heat the case around the bearing hole to ~160F.
10. The ice now holds everything together. Drop the frozen bearing in, washer side first.
11. Tap gently with a bearing driver and mallet, if needed. Mine just dropped in.
12. Blow out any remaining water with WD40.
12. Bob's your uncle.
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⚠️ Last edited by garncarz on UTC; edited 1 time
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I like it! Clap emoticon Clap emoticon
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no worries on the oil slinger tab, it's built in on the older cases.

other than that, things are looking tidy!
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Honed the bore and rebuilt the gears. Ready to start stuffing it all back in.
Couple of scratches
Couple of scratches
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Is there a work around for for the crankshaft installation tool?

https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Factory-Tools/F-2306849
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You just need some way to draw it into the bearing, but you can also tap it in if you don't have a crank/axle puller. SIP used to make one that has multiple interchangeable ends so it'll work with pretty much anything you need to pull on a Vespa. I just looked on their site for a link and couldn't find it, though, which sucks, because I've used it for crankshafts and front and rear axles numerous times.
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garncarz wrote:
Is there a work around for for the crankshaft installation tool?

https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Factory-Tools/F-2306849
you can cobble something together with a short piece of large diameter pipe, an endcap or washers, a spare clutch nut (better if you can find something with the same thread that's larger/thicker) and some all-thread or a bolt and some spacers.

I've seen somebody do it by using a piece of angle iron laid flat to span the clutch void, with a hole in the center and welded nut, and then a long bolt with another nut welded to the end that engaged the crank. a little sketch-a-saurous, but it worked.
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chandlerman wrote:
You just need some way to draw it into the bearing, but you can also tap it in if you don't have a crank/axle puller. SIP used to make one that has multiple interchangeable ends so it'll work with pretty much anything you need to pull on a Vespa. I just looked on their site for a link and couldn't find it, though, which sucks, because I've used it for crankshafts and front and rear axles numerous times.
speaking of, I'm having a moment here trying to figure out how this works?

https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Factory-Tools/10052700

maybe it's just cuz I don't have it in my hands with the parts but I'm scratching my head...
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greasy125 wrote:
speaking of, I'm having a moment here trying to figure out how this works?

https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Factory-Tools/10052700

maybe it's just cuz I don't have it in my hands with the parts but I'm scratching my head...
It works for pre p-series setups on LF where the seal is on the outside. It's a nice tool to have and allows you to set the crankshaft while the primary gear is in the case.
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GickSpeed wrote:
It works for pre p-series setups on LF where the seal is on the outside. It's a nice tool to have and allows you to set the crankshaft while the primary gear is in the case.
I understand that part of it I just am having difficulty on the "how" part of it. As in where does it push or pull from? Does it work with another tool?

From the picture it just appears to be a cup with a cut out and a threaded rod.
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Pretty sure that cup fits on the clutch side boss that holds the main seal.
The cut out is there to keep it from resting on the primary (one rests on the seal boss).
Put the all thread through and screw it on to the end of the crank.
Spin the bolt on to that all thread until it hits the cup - now keep turning and it pulls the crank in.

I use the SIP one - but cut a big piece of aluminum plate with hole in the center that spans the clutch cover opening. This allows me to use it even when the primary is in place.
I also drilled three holes in it - and can attach it to the clutch cover bolts (I have extra long ones for this maneuver). By putting it's nut on the under side of that plate, I can then also push the crank out. No hammering. Just pressing. Works well.
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greasy125 wrote:
I understand that part of it I just am having difficulty on the "how" part of it. As in where does it push or pull from? Does it work with another tool?

From the picture it just appears to be a cup with a cut out and a threaded rod.
the threaded rod in the photo has an internal threading that threads onto the crankshaft. tightening the nut on the threaded rod pulls the crankshaft into place.
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GickSpeed wrote:
the threaded rod in the photo has an internal threading that threads onto the crankshaft. tightening the nut on the threaded rod pulls the crankshaft into place.
that was the part I wasn't seeing, I was like: how does this attach to the crank? so basically, it's a standard crank puller with a different cup (fwiw, I have a cup I made and use my regular clutch puller).
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greasy125 wrote:
that was the part I wasn't seeing, I was like: how does this attach to the crank? so basically, it's a standard crank puller with a different cup (fwiw, I have a cup I made and use my regular clutch puller).
you got it.

i have a couple of original Italian bearing puller kits with cups in all sizes. Those cups come in handy with all types of bearings to be removed. probably 70 pieces per kit. probably only a few pieces in those kits that i use over and over again.
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GickSpeed wrote:
you got it.

i have a couple of original Italian bearing puller kits with cups in all sizes. Those cups come in handy with all types of bearings to be removed. probably 70 pieces per kit. probably only a few pieces in those kits that i use over and over again.
same here. an ass ton of factory and speciality tools and I generally use a handful on the regular. but when you need that one special piece and you have it? man, that's the best feeling in the world!
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Made a lot of progress this morning. I have everything on the clutch side stuffed back in. How does it look? Anything look f*cked? Thanks for everyone's help, couldn't do it with out yous.
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Does an o-ring need to go in the small slot near the end of the selector shaft?
Does an o-ring need to go in the small slot near the end of the selector shaft?
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Got everything stuffed back in and the cases bolted back together. The spec sheet that I got off of mercado calls out 1.5 Kg-M (12 lb-ft) of torque for the case bolts. Doesn't seem like a lot. Could someone confirm? Thanks.
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Confirm
9 to 13ft/lbs.
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Thank you, sir.
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looking good my dude!

no ring on the selector shaft.

torque is the same on the selector box nuts.
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All back together. It's not like this is a Porsche 4 cam, but I am shaking like a shitting dog thinking I missed something in the build.
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well, at least if you did miss something you have us to blame too!
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Just make sure there's not a kickstart gear still on the bench and you're good-to-go!
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That would certainly suck. From your personal experience?
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garncarz wrote:
That would certainly suck. From your personal experience?
maybe...
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What are you waiting for? Now fire it up.
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chandlerman wrote:
Just make sure there's not a kickstart gear still on the bench and you're good-to-go!
don't say it three times or it'll happen to one of us!
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garncarz wrote:
That would certainly suck. From your personal experience?
if you haven't forgotten something inside, you haven't done enough engines.
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4167
Location: Florence, OR
 
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4167
Location: Florence, OR
UTC quote
garncarz wrote:
That would certainly suck. From your personal experience?
I've done it. I checked your picture though, and I ALWAYS take a pic of the guts before I close it up just to be sure. Cause it certainly sucks! Razz emoticon
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