Modern Vespa

Just wondering whether anyone would consider buying a new Honda Navi (automatic 125cc mini Moto), in addition to or instead of a Vespa?

If you own one, what are your impressions? Do you see any advantages or disadvantages of this model?

Canadian site: https://motorcycle.honda.ca/model/minimoto/navi/2022

U.S. site: https://powersports.honda.com/street/minimoto/navi

No.

Welcome to Modern Vespa.

Not new to the site, as you can see from the date joined. Somehow, I am back to being a lurker after 7 years.

status is based on # of posts not time served.

the navi serves a very niche market. it's up to you if that is a fit.

personally, if I just wanted something to run around town on? sure. but I'd probably wait and pick one up used for 1K next fall. but in addition to a vespa? nah. probably not.

Have posted many times so the status is not lurker. It seems to have reverted.

Hoping there is a NAVI owner out there, to provide their thoughts. It has been available in other countries for a few years.

I personally would not buy any CVT Honda as their acceleration and top speed left a lot to be desired. Piaggio and Genuine are the best IMHO.

Were your posts deleted somehow? It says 3 posts under your profile. Weird.

The Honda scooters I have owned were set up factory with fairly heavy weights in The variator. Switching them out for lighter ones made a world of difference. I think the Navi will sell. If nothing else, there are Honda dealers all over. It is a bump over the 50cc, but not quite a 150 at 110. If I wanted a around town scoot, yes I would buy one over a new 50cc Vespa.

My local Honda shop actually had 2 Navis on the sales floor. I didn't ask an OTD price or look them over very well as I was in a hurry. I find my Liberty as the perfect size scooter for my needs. The bigger/taller wheels add stability and the flat floor makes getting on and off very easy. Plus the Liberty price didn't frighten me away. But the Navi is aimed at getting people to get a M class and hopefully move up to something larger. Its also a great way to get into a small, simple to ride bike that won't kill the bank account. I see it as a good thing all around.

Would I consider a Navi over a smaller Vespa? Nope. Would I consider adding one to my garage as a play toy? Maybe.

I can see the appeal of the Navi as a little toy for somebody who already has an M license and a bigger two-wheeler.

As a first machine for somebody recently committed to getting their M license, which is not that big of a commitment, I really don't see the appeal of the Navi over a used PCS, Grom, Vespa, Buddy, etc in the 125-200cc range. It would have all the drawbacks of a 50cc and almost none of the benefits AFAIC.

It fills the "I don't want to own a scooter but I'm too dumb to change gears niche". Which is small, because even a Harley has gears.

Apart from the Livewire.

No gears. No clue. No point.

I would not buy any CVT bike but a Vespa. I have a Vespa GT200, and a Genuine Stella 2 stroke manual transmission. Way back in 2007, I bought a new Yamaha Vino 125. It performed about as expected on a level road, but trying to climb even a moderate hill it just bogged. I put a clip on (to the spark plug wire) tach on it, and got around 9,000 rpm at full throttle on a level road at an indicated 60 mph. Trying to climb the hill, the rpms dropped and dropped until they were WAY below the powerband. Maybe different rollers would have fixed that, but it shouldn't have been that way to start with. I have climbed 8000 foot mountains with a stock Tomos 50cc 2 speed moped, and that Yamaha 125 wouldn't do it.

I see the Navi as a REALLY cheap bike made in India and assembled in Mexico that Honda dealers are going to make a fortune on by adding over $1000 worth of bogus fees onto.

I truly am not a fan of the style and aesthetic of the Navi. I much prefer retro styles as you can see from my profile.

I wouldn't mind fitting the Navi engine to my Metropolitan though…

Chris from CLE

Methinks you have a different username on another forum.

So I have two Stella Automatics, one that now has about 250 miles on it and the other nearly 11K. And my wife has a Vino 125. I think the Vino really does have the wrong stock rollers from the factory, but I actually think this is Yamaha's trying to make it more reliable and get better mpg, maybe even reduce emissions.

Our Vino had 14g rollers stock and I replaced them with 12g sliders, it does not have the poor performance nearly as bad as what you mention. My Stellautos have 9g rollers with the same size engine, but I think they have 1-2 more hp according to the butt dyno. The variator on the Vino is smaller diameter than the Stella's, and my gut physics says that means they would need heavier rollers to behave the same. But the Stellautos are much quicker off the line, and in particular the Stella can easily go with my wife and I 2-up but riding the Vino 2-up is nearly impossible.

I have had both scooters up to 55mph or so, which is about where the top out with me riding them (12g sliders on the Vino). Given enough flat ground I think either of them would probably make 60mph. I might swap the sliders in the Vino to 11g next time I have to do service on it. Likewise, I'll probably change to 9g sliders on the Stella. But suffice to say, I think a Vino 125 with 9-10g sliders would be at least as quick and keep speed like the Stella but probably would give up some top speed.

I will say this: all three of our scooters have been tuned by yours truly. I had to resurrect the not-running Vino with a new, non-stock (but nearly identical) carburetor. It took a bit of fiddling and guesswork to figure how to tune the carb and I think I finally have it very close to right, but getting the idle mixture dialed in so it didn't have a super dead spot off the line and would also idle at the right speed regardless of engine temp was not easy.

I had to also bring back both of the Stellas from storage. The new one was obviously never adjusted from stock and it was extremely lean at idle. Once I tweaked it correctly, it radically improved off-the-line performance. The older one actually feels quite a bit quicker and will even get a little wheelie if you try. I think it's just more broken in, but I might actually have it tuned a little richer than the new one.

So that all said, I think you have to consider how they tune these scooters from the factory for emissions and efficiency, and maybe re-tune them yourself if they don't perform as you expect. Specs tell me my Stellas have a little over 9 hp stock, the Vino is more like 8 hp stock, but the Vino is lighter and should run just about the same if you tune the variator and carb the same. Likewise any other new or used scooter you get probably could use some tuning if it's not performing like you want.

The emissions are set at a certain RPM, usually the average operating speed, and rollers do effect these results drastically. And its not only emissions from the tailpipe but noise levels and vibration. I did the AF1 roller swap for my Liberty and it really woke it up.

What makes messing with Vino 125 rollers is that strange transmission cover acting as an oil plug. What was Yamaha thinking? I had a TST dual ramp variator from my old Zuma 125 tuning days and a friend had a Vino 125. I gave him the old TST and what we determined the correct weights for the rollers. He said it made a big difference to the overall performance of the Vino. I personall don't recommend the TST as it likes to murder drive belts.

Yeah and I assume also the fuel economy, due to what rpm it operates at during this speed, and from Yamaha's perspective, maintenance and service life is much different if the average operating rpm is 1.5x higher. The sight glass is useless anyway. I had heard that you could service it without draining the oil by leaning it to the right, which I found the hard way is not true. So you just do an oil change whenever you need to crack the case. So next oil change, I'll probably swap these for 1-2g lighter sliders.

I understand why Yamaha might have tuned it the way they did from the factory, but the variator is central to wear/maintenance items so tuning it should not be a big stretch for the owners. If you need 80+ mpg and really are concerned with emissions at 35mph cruise, then leave it stock. But if you are having issues with it climbing hills or pulling away from a stop with 2-up, there's a clear and easy fix for that.

Easy for me to say, since I got my Vino for free and in 1000 pieces, so tuning it was just a regular part of putting it together. I might be more irritated had I bought it new like this.

Product doesn't fit the average Vespa consumer. You might be able to get a couple Piaggio riders or KYMCO riders to convert, but Vespa riders, good luck...

I am a real fan of anything Honda. However, the wrong look and the wrong power
for me.

Bob Copeland

While I am not in market for something like this now----Honda has lots of dealers right now and do not break often---something to think about---could be used like 50cc scooters in Japan---throw away when expensive problems. I lived/worked/rode in Japan near 25 years.

You only have three posts. AFAIK, we did not delete any of them. It doesn't just revert randomly.