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UTC

Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
Finally got my mounts back from the machinist. Only took forever.

I'm gonna need a lathe at some point.

Time to start putting this junk back together.
Justification for more tools. A hacksaw or cutoff wheel would do it, but I'm trying to dial back the hackiness of it all.
Justification for more tools. A hacksaw or cutoff wheel would do it, but I'm trying to dial back the hackiness of it all.
@finyoshi avatar
UTC

Addicted
Parmakit Primavera -74, Polini Primavera -68, VR-One 228 150 Touring -59, VMC 177 Bajaj Chetak 125 -95
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Location: Finland
 
Addicted
@finyoshi avatar
Parmakit Primavera -74, Polini Primavera -68, VR-One 228 150 Touring -59, VMC 177 Bajaj Chetak 125 -95
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UTC quote
Reminds me of my concept of "poor man's lathe" which consists of cordless drill and angle grinder Laughing emoticon

Good work on the scoot!
@christopher_55934 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3547
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
@christopher_55934 avatar
2007 Stella 225
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3547
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
UTC quote
FINYoshi wrote:
Reminds me of my concept of "poor man's lathe" which consists of cordless drill and angle grinder Laughing emoticon

Good work on the scoot!
Guy at work learned a new trick on how to shorten up a large bolt about 12mm. Needed to shorten it about 24mm. I chucked up part I didn't want in drill press, turned it on and slowly moved hacksaw across spot until bolt fell off.
⬆️    About 7 months elapsed    ⬇️
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UTC

Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
New Year. Finally got my axle and clutch actuator back from the machinist. Decided to party on a bit this evening and tossed the block in the oven. Once warm, I popped fresh SKF bearings (all manufactured in Italy) in and set it outside to cool.

Glad I had the cases media blasted, cuz they smelled nothing like chocolate chip cookies.

While checking the fits on everything else, I noticed that the axle felt a bit loose on the caged bearing. Whipped out the good calipers and checked the axle stub. It measures up around 15.54-15.56mm. It's supposed to measure out to 16mm. Crap, guess the prior mechanic turned it down so they could fit it in that brass bushing that was subbing for a roller bearing. Lesson learned: after disassembly and cleaning, measure all the things.

Taking the axle back in tomorrow to have the stub welded up and recut to size. Would've been easier if I'd subbed in my V50 axle, but I'm trying to keep some of the original bits in the engine. I'll fit the seals and motor mounts in the interim.
The first step.
The first step.
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UTC quote
That's some pretty stuff right there.
⬆️    About 1 year elapsed    ⬇️
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UTC

Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
This keeps getting bumped off the roster.

Annoyed as my machinist has been slacking on fitting a 16mm hardened sleeve on my rear axle for months. If anyone's holding a Serie 1° three-speed axle, let's chat.

Lost the crank while cleaning house. Found it again on Sunday. I can at least fit some parts while waiting.

Gotta do something about the residual porosity from the case repair. More welding might make things worse, so I'm going the filler route.

I'd consider self-flagellation for even considering this, but in the interest of keeping it real, this scoot's always gonna be a sketchy turd.
The disease.
The disease.
The cure?
The cure?
UTC

Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2537
Location: Siam
 
Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2537
Location: Siam
UTC quote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
Guy at work learned a new trick on how to shorten up a large bolt about 12mm. Needed to shorten it about 24mm. I chucked up part I didn't want in drill press, turned it on and slowly moved hacksaw across spot until bolt fell off.
Holy shite! How did miss this? That is brilliant.
@orwell84 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2914
Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
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Posts: 2914
Location: northern New York
UTC quote
When I bought my 2 scooters in December of 2021, I thought I would have them both on the road by Spring of 2022. They're just scooters. How hard can it be? At least one was on the road by April.

I really should have known better. It's all the little things. With Vespas, the sum of its parts is much greater than the whole.

Btw, I think you will be fine with JB weld for the repair you are doing.
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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Location: Nashville

134 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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134 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
JBWeld should fix any residual porosity just fine. No different, just less risk, than using JBWeld to add meat for porting.
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UTC

Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
I think the porosity is solved. Some of you may ask why I bothered? It "ran" when I got it, right?

The case had literally been glued together with something that smelled like dead fish and perished gear oil. The only question was if it was going to seize from the air leak, from the grossly overbored cylinder (V9B 2nd over piston) or from the small end that had been drilled out for a very sloppy bearing.

Sculpture times is over and I hope it works. The lip from the other case half that usually slips together below the cracked section is missing a bit there. I considered having a bit welded back on, but I'm concerned about things warping and my aluminum welder is also my machinist...grumble grumble axle.

Anyone run a case like this before? Not gonna be a hotrod, but I don't want to be fighting air leaks forever.
Porosity filled.
Porosity filled.
Lip damage.
Lip damage.
Mind the gap.
Mind the gap.
Looks better outside.
Looks better outside.
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UTC

Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
It's a Christmas Super Bowl miracle! Got my axle back today.

Picked up the rear brake plate from the Phoenix shop when I was up there for datacenter work on Thursday.

Got chorin' to do today, but I'll be making time to start reassembling things this weekend.
Good as it's gonna get. It fits, so it ships
Good as it's gonna get. It fits, so it ships
Now it's as tidy as the rest of the case parts.
Now it's as tidy as the rest of the case parts.
OP
UTC

Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
Behold, the peril of not keeping a good shopping list.

Yes, there are duplicates. And I have a strong position in the Series 1 brake plate gasket market.

Found the new FA Italia cruciform kit. Only had a ball escape twice so far, and I found it both times. Beginning to suspect the tilting trick works best on the four-legged versions. I'll get some supplies and try Pinocchio's wooden inserts tomorrow.

Family coming in from out of town next weekend, so trying to make weeknights count.

P.S. Yeah, the chrome fan cover is gaudy, but the scoot came with (a torn up) one so I'm staying to stay true to it's tackiness.
Might have gone a little bonkers here. And this isn't all of it. At least my odds of waiting on parts have gone down a little...
Might have gone a little bonkers here. And this isn't all of it. At least my odds of waiting on parts have gone down a little...
@charlieman22 avatar
UTC

Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4061
Location: california
 
Nedminder
@charlieman22 avatar
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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Location: california
UTC quote
Did one of SIP's stocking shelves fall over?
Good thing your moving blanket was there to catch the fall.

One trick I use for crank case seal - when it's unreasonably beaten up:
A piece of thin plastic - similar to what comes on an iPhone screen or a computer monitor - oiled up and placed between the crank and the cases when closed.
As the cases come together and squeeze out any sealer - the plastic keeps it from sticking to the crank.
A careful swipe with a long wide head screw driver placed thought the crank, can help the plastic to smear the extra sealer nicely against the cases.

When the sealer starts to kick - I pull the plastic out.
(well - actually - after the first attempt where I pull it out too early and remind myself that I oiled the plastic for the specific purposes of being able to remove it)...
OP
UTC

Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
charlieman22 wrote:
One trick I use for crank case seal - when it's unreasonably beaten up:
A piece of thin plastic - similar to what comes on an iPhone screen or a computer monitor - oiled up and placed between the crank and the cases when closed.
As the cases come together and squeeze out any sealer - the plastic keeps it from sticking to the crank.
A careful swipe with a long wide head screw driver placed thought the crank, can help the plastic to smear the extra sealer nicely against the cases.

When the sealer starts to kick - I pull the plastic out.
(well - actually - after the first attempt where I pull it out too early and remind myself that I oiled the plastic for the specific purposes of being able to remove it)...
Interesting tip! I have some OE Piaggio gaskets (and two BGM kits that I'll be skipping based on feedback received here) and I was thinking of skimming some Threebond on them before assembling the case halves.
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UTC

Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
Wondering if I have another improv'ed part here. Looks to be the correct shape, but it has a 14mm bolt head. I know the washers are bunk and I believe I have the correct one in one of my Mercato orders.

I generally see even-number sized bolt heads on bolt heads from the Far East and odd-number sized fastener heads on older Italian bikes, which is why I'm a touch suspicious.

Does anyone have a legit loose part for comparison?

EDIT: Fixed where autocorrect had opted for irrelevant words.
Shift stirrup retaining bolt?
Shift stirrup retaining bolt?
⚠️ Last edited by az_slynch on UTC; edited 2 times
@birdsnest avatar
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UTC quote
I may have in the box(es) of ET3 Parts at home. Magic 8-ball says 50/50. I will look and post when I get home if no one else responds before hand.
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UTC quote
Head size 14mm


Thread length looks longer though.
From an eT3 engine
From an eT3 engine
OP
UTC

Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
Slowly starting to fit the bits. Cleaned up the stirrup bolt with a M12x1.5 die and the case with the corresponding tap. Worked much better.

Needed a chain vise to get the pin out of the new FA stirrup. Glad I had the O-ring on hand, not sure why it's sold without it.

Clutch basket slipped on with minimal fuss, but needed a few taps with a shot mallet to seat it.

Still need to get the cruciform balls and spring seated so I can fit the axle.

Now rifling through the parts bags and making a list of what I might be missing.

Kinda jazzed to finally be making tangible progress, but starting to fear what the chassis has in store for me.
Game of inches.
Game of inches.
@safis avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4156
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
@safis avatar
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4156
Location: Veria, Greece
UTC quote
Seems like you're missing the spring shim under the selector arm…
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
UTC

Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
Seems like you're missing the spring shim under the selector arm…
You are correct, sir. Fortunately, I have it in my stash. Noticed it was missing while looking over exploded diagrams. Fear not, it'll be installed before I button this up.

For the other sharp-eyed builders, the snap ring's missing on the clutch basket too. Have the OG one, but I'm looking for the new one as well.
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9477
Location: Nashville

134 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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Posts: 9477
Location: Nashville

134 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
A tip I got from Matt & Dave for installing the ball bearings for the shift dogs is to put the whole thing in a clear ziploc bag for assembly so they don't get very far when they go flying.
OP
UTC

Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
Solutions, not problems. Took longer to find the clamp than to do the deed.

Axle is finally in, hopefully for the last time. Shift stirrup got its spring washer and is installed too. Still looking for all the parts caches and glad that it's slowing me down. Pretty fired up to get this lump fired up, but I have to keep reminding myself to double or triple-check things to avoid mistakes. Not my first smallframe build, but these early ones have those weird details to pay heed to.
The solution, in 1/4" aluminum.
The solution, in 1/4" aluminum.
Big help in the background.
Big help in the background.
Bob's your uncle.
Bob's your uncle.
OP
UTC

Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
More fiddling and fettling. Spent a little time this evening hunting parts and then cleaning/fixing some dodgy bits. Touched up some dings with hobby files and brought some chingered up threads back around.

I am missing some bits. Making a list this time as to avoid more unnecessary spares.

Pausing for the weekend, as family is in town.
Just need the pin for the arm and to drop a fresh plunger in.
Just need the pin for the arm and to drop a fresh plunger in.
Threads work now. Not loving the keyway, but I think I'll lap the tree and clutch in for a more positive fit.
Threads work now. Not loving the keyway, but I think I'll lap the tree and clutch in for a more positive fit.
OP
UTC

Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
Family left at noon. Used the afternoon to wrap up the bonded title process on a project, fit a bigger carb 'n dial it in on a buddy's CT90, and revisit the V9A. Do not want to lose velocity on this project now!

Used some valve grinding compound to lap the new clutch basket and intermediate shaft together. Went slow and kept checking with an LED flashlight until the only light came through the keyway.

I spent a little more time cleaning up the dings in the key slot on the intermediate shaft. It's supported on both sides of the nick and finally bottoms snugly in the slot.

Clutch now fully covers the intermediate shaft key slot and looks like the shaft mostly reaches the clutch baskets mounting boss. Anyone see any concerns there (besides the intermediate keyway)?

Hope it holds those 3.1hp back!
Good as it gets?
Good as it gets?
Slightly different angle.
Slightly different angle.
Seated after lapping in.
Seated after lapping in.
Hope that's deep enough!
Hope that's deep enough!
OP
UTC

Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
Clutch cover is pretty much done. Used finesse, a small socket and a vise to seat the roll pin. Just need to see if I can find a new plug for the actuator pin hole.

I'm missing a new snap ring for the clutch basket and the proper washer for the shift stirrup bolt. Can't bring myself to use the old snap ring; while it has tension, it doesn't lay flat on a bench. Probably missing other stuff too, but I'll keep dry fitting stuff and hope I find it all before placing a parts order.

Two possible modification questions. If I have to wait for parts, I was considering these things:

Is the Polini "wave" spring worth it on a stock clutch? Not so much for sporty reasons, but it looks like it would clamp more uniformly. How's the lever effort with it?

Could a 90cc engine pull 22/60 gears? I know it's not a big change, but the scooter help gearing calc suggests it might be good for an extra 2mph up top.

Also considering a banana style exhaust. Not looking for big power or speed, just trying to eke a bit more out for dealing with local traffic and I think it'd be comedy gold if this thing was 1-2mph faster than a friend's bone-stock VBB. He doesn't believe in modding vehicles (it ruins reliability), but I know it would boggle him if 90 > 150 somehow.
One piece at a time.
One piece at a time.
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UTC quote
Superclean. Looks the biz.


Banana pipe... What size is the carb? I cant rcall if those were 16/16 or 19/19. I think I have an extra 19 collecting dust if you want it to go along with the banana. LMK. Free... Just pay for the ride.
OP
UTC

Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
Thanks! Trying to make it respectable.

They came with a 16.16 SHB. I think I had a 19.19 from a Smallstate set aside for it, but I need to go through the parts stash. If not, I can definitely put your spare to work.

Just need to decide on which banana to use. The stocko box looked like it was stepped on and had an air cooled VW chrome tip booger welded to it...not keen to refit that.
OP
UTC

Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
Placed a small Scooters O order today to move the engine assembly along. I'd been compiling a notepad with SIP, which was bleeding beyond engine and into the chassis. After all, why fit a freshened-up engine with new bushings up to a rear shock and mount that are more clapped-out than a Rose Royce backing track?

As alluded to in the bollocks thread, I have a blown CT90 to address and I'm resigning myself to incremental progress towards having the V9A engine ready to slot into the chassis. Still need to procure some steel tubing to size down the BGM largeframe mounts for the smallie's 10mm bolt and I plan to have that striated in a lathe to allow grease to move between the bits as needed.
OP
UTC

Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1032
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
Got the small parts order in. Put a bit of time in tonight.

The virgin 1° series First gear was plunked down onto the reworked axle, with a touch of assembly lube. We're not savages over here. Rest of the stack looks good, but I need to check clearance. I suspect it's over 0.15 and that I'll be modifying a 4-leg shim to get it in spec.

Test-assembled the case. I think I'll need the kicker lever installed to help with alignment, but it was less of a fight than expected. Used a new set of case bolts...it might be missing one. I do have all the original hardware, so I might clean it up and re-use it if it's not too beat.

Keeping on keepin' on, the chassis awaits and I will ride this janky little jalopy before we hit 2025.
Kicker went together OK.
Kicker went together OK.
Welcome to the shit show, you lovely Venetian ingranaggio.
Welcome to the shit show, you lovely Venetian ingranaggio.
Nice neutral gap. Up to Second, both cog and dogs are in agreement.
Nice neutral gap. Up to Second, both cog and dogs are in agreement.
Third lines up nicely as well. Shim it, clip it and ship it.
Third lines up nicely as well. Shim it, clip it and ship it.
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