Modern Vespa

Sure thing! As requested:

Using a mirror mount bolt on Stella?

I realized I mounted them differently on the Stella vs the P. I actually used this ball mount on the Stella: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0977BDPHZ

It comes out at an angle.

That's a tidy arrangement. I was thinking of mounting my gauges like you have. Hard to see mine on top of the glove box. It would mean fabbing some things which isn't a problem. I also like how the ball mount attached to the mirror bracket keeps the phone low and uses less clutter. The articulating mirror mount seems to be the most expensive part. I like to keep things simple.

Having sorted out the remaining iffy grounds and connections, electrics are working great. Really typical of any old vehicle that spends time sitting. Grounds can need freshening up just from a winter of storage where I live.

I'm pleased with how the PO streamlined the whole electrical system and divided up the AC/DC power using just the stock stator. I can run an LED headlight like this.

The only thing is that I prefer the CDI on the engine side because I don't like running the plug wire through the frame and I like the idea of being able to MacGyver lights, whatever, if I have electrical problems on the road. Just a preference thing and simple enough to do.

Once I get rolling for real, I will be attending to useful accessory kind of things. GPS apps have made it really easy to gauge speed and travel continuously on small roads without having to stop to look at a map.

Thanks again.

I'm taking another shot at getting the speedo working with a new gear. The gear fits and turns the cable smoothly when the the wheel is turned in the direction of rotation, but when turning the wheel backwards the wheel starts to bind, which is what happened last time. No problem unless I never want to push the scooter backwards. Any ideas?

I actually went for a real ride. Having a couple issues.

At higher speeds I am getting a hesitation near full throttle. It just abruptly slows and kind of bucks. At one point it just started to splutter, had no power and backfired a couple times. Stopped for a minute and it went away. I don't think I went faster than 50. CHT's got up to 280 for short periods but quickly came down.

My first thought is poor spark, second fuel starvation, third soft seizing. The speedo cable works for now FWIW.

Definitely fuel starvation.

Thanks!

I have had issues with both while setting up the engine, but yeah. Felt a bit like a clogged fuel pump on a car. My gas tank was running a bit low and the carb might have picked up some trash. I hooked up this kill wire to the CDI and tucked the bare end between the floor mat and the floor tunnel mat. Wonder if it grounded…

I like the 200. Kind of nice and cruisey. You have to wind out third if you want anything out of fourth. Perfectly fine for now. I get more vibration out of it than the Stella engine. I think the swing arm mounts are probably old. Doesn't have to be perfect.

Just about ready to give the scoot another try after the fuel starvation issue. I checked fuel flow to the carb, made sure the tank cap was not blocked, soaked the jets in some vintage 90's Berryman's, blew them out with compressed air, etc. Hopefully that will resolve it.

I figured out how to run a wire through the frame. I guess I just need to run one of the green wires to the CDI for engine shut off.

You should be able to use a relay to shut down the engine. Switch out for a dual pole and use the other side of the relay to shut down.

Thanks. I couldn't get it to start at all today. I am getting fuel to the carb and spark. It will run for a short time with starting fluid then die. Cleaned the Jets again and blew out with compressed air. No luck. Took the carb apart and threw it in Berryman's If that doesn't work…we'll that's all I got. Jeez…

And it wouldn't start. I'm into kick it over, set it on fire, this shit's really not for me territory. This has been no goddamn fun at all.

Well I didn't set it on fire. I am out of time for awhile, but I know I will get it figured out. We closed on a house in Vermont, so time has been more limited and I guess I have been impatient in the time I've had.

At this point, I'm getting fuel, but weak or no spark. The ground wire on one of the CDI's was hanging by a thread and fell off. The other looks better but isn't working either.

If I keep kicking it, it gets fuel until it spits back. The starting fluid doesn't do anything.

I have:

Taken apart and cleaned the carb and it seems to work now.
Tried a new plug
Changed the plugwire
Verified wiring and connections
Drained the fuel tank and filled with new fuel

I'm getting nothing close to a sputter.

Im at a loss at this point. I could check the stator with a multi meter and replace the CDI. I have tried starting with only the stator wires hooked to the CDI. It all worked fine with the Stella engine but is hit and miss with the 200. The 200 ran well except at full throttle until it wouldn't start at all.

The other thing I considered was maybe I messed up setting the timing, but it ran and started without issues after. I considered possible low compression, but it seemed to have decent power until the full throttle issue.

I also considered trying a new CDI and stator. I also have to replace the fuel tap because it won't turn off. Servicing the carb is thrills and spills otherwise.

Not sure where to go from here. Thanks for the help.

And sorry to be a cry-ass. I'm used to frustration with old engines, but it's been a long time since I've been stumped this long with a no start.

No worries, we've all been there.

When you get to a point like this, time to step back to basics.

Only four things needed for the engine to start and run:

Fuel
Spark
Compression
Timing

Fuel: Is the plug getting wet? If not, double check that the float bowl is filling up. See if the fuel hose is kinked or pinched. Try starting it with the tank lifted up out of the frame a couple of inches. Make sure the float needle is good. Clean the idle circuit again. If fuel is definitely moving through the carb and actually getting to the plug, change the plug.

Spark: Put in a fresh plug. Clean the connections at the CDI. Test for a strong spark before trying to start it.

Compression: If you have a compression tester you can give it a test. These engines will start and run with 90 psi.

Timing: You need to be pretty far off for it not to start and run. Did you maybe install the stater 180° off? Double check TDC. If it were a small timing issue you'd be getting a backfire.

Hang in. Normally not starting is a simple issue. It's just a matter of chasing it down.

Im pretty sure it's something electrical as I am getting a wet spark plug with kicking it over. My VW Guru friend who knows nothing about 2 strokes, suggested making sure the flywheel magnets and stator pickup was clean and were the right distance apart and stator wires intact, recheck timing, etc. His money is on something with the stator setup. I will put a multimeter on it just for fun.

It's usually pretty easy to make a Vespa at least run like shit. I think I can fix the broken ground wire on the CDI by putting a screw through a wire with a ring terminal into what's left of the ground wire on the CDI. It broke off flush with the CDI box.

My VBB always started first kick. I should have just rode the shit out of it slippy third gear and all. Anvil simple, I still like points. Still running them in my bus, even though I have a brand new electronic ignition still in the box. If it ain't broke…

Changing the subject, many pages ago I was asked about my bus setup. I have been driving it a lot lately which gets my mind off scooter struggles and reminds me that I am an OK mechanic.

I finally got it started!

I swapped in the P Stator and it started right up and revved nicely. I just set it at the factory timing mark.

It looks like the pickup on the P stator sits a little higher but it measures maybe a mm.

Im also wondering if I advanced the timing too much when the Stella Stator was in, but it would have to be way off not to start.

So I have a couple of options:

Try shimming the Stella pickup/Stator.

Use the Stella flywheel and Stator.

Make the wiring for the P Stator work in the Stella. I think the Stella has been converted to DC only; ground is floated (though I don't know what that means exactly) and uses a trailtech regulator. I'm wondering if moving the CDI from the battery box to the engine somehow disconnected the floated ground.

The Stella only has 2 other stator wires, both going to the regulator.

Im glad that it started at least.

Just for fun, I through the Stella Stator in and set it to the markings in the case. Started right up.

I think I set the timing way off before or I just fixed something this time through as I renewed a few iffy ground connections. Strange.

If it was timing, you would not be alone

Yeah, there's enough of us at this point to start our own Bad Timing Scooter Club.

Hard to believe when the stock Stator can only be rotated so many degrees but there's no other explanation. Thanks for bearing with me.

I finally went for an actual ride. Just took it easy, maybe had it up to 50 mph on back roads. It revved nicely, even close to full throttle. Head temps only hit 220, which kind of confirms it was the timing as it got up to 290 last time. Just going to ride it as is and enjoy it while I rebuild the Stella engine.

Good call...

Welcome to the club

Thank you! It's been a longer journey with more frustrations than anticipated, which seems to be a common experience.

A well respected forum member advised me to not start out by diving into a tuned engine build and I can see that he was right. I needed to learn many basics just to get one scooter going. I feel like I have most of the basics surrounded now.

It's still not perfect. It needs a new fuel tap for starters, but I'm going to ride it for awhile before I dig into anything else.

This is the best way. Get the basics down and gain a solid understanding of how the motors fundamentally work and go together. Then you can start down the tuning path, because all you're doing otherwise is increasing the cost of the parts you blow up when you don't know how to prevent, detect, or recognize dangerously bad carb setups, mis-timed ignitions, air leaks, or any of the other things that can blow up relatively expensive go-fast parts.

So true. Leak testing the 200 engine, as an example, was a long detour to set up the gauge and pump and figure it out. But now I know. So when the engine wasn't running right at least I knew it wasn't an air leak. A good investment of time in learning the required skill set.

I went for an hour ride last night and the scooter ran quite nicely. Head temps briefly hit 250F before coming right back down. I don't think I spun it past 5500 rpm with an indicated speed of 60 mph which might be optimistic. I think it should easily hold 55 for extended periods if kept in good tune.

Mostly I took it easy because my riding skills are rusty. Many years back, when I was a new rider, I remember misjudging a curve and sliding into a muddy ditch. But it's starting to come back and by the end of my ride I began to relax and enjoy all the things I had missed about it; the sites, sounds and smells and the feeling that only riding a small shifty bike can give.

Good to see you finally back out on the road! It feels great, doesn't it?

60MPH would be about right for a P200 motor with stock gearing at 5500 RPM's.

5500 rpm doesn't feel at all like it's screaming, the 200 is a nice ride with the SIP road 2. No hurry to change anything at this point.

Spent some time tidying up the wiring in the battery box and setting up a kill switch using the old engine start switch. I have a ton on switches from my flight sim build. I'm now trying to figure out how the neutral switch works.

Not going to spend too much time on it though. It's not very useful. I thought I would need it to pass inspection but NYS doesn't list it as a requirement…or a kill switch for that matter.

In other news, I may have mentioned plans to buy a house in Vermont and move in with my fiancé. Probably in the context of enjoying my last days of engine building on the dining room table and having big boxes from Scooter Mercato waiting for me on the front steps. We did end up buying a house and should be all moved in by mid August.

It's a modest ranch in a small city that has a lot of fun things going on. But I'm really excited about the attached 2 car garage. It just swallows up my bus and has plenty of space for a kick ass work shop and parts department. Also bulkhead doors leading to acres of empty basement.

Pulled the trigger on the the Malossi VR-1 case...just getting that out of the way as a last hurrah. I won't be doing anything with it for awhile, but it will be ready for the eventual long winter of building the touring engine of my dreams.

Congrats on the house! Looking real good over there and I'm kinda envious of that garage

Thanks!

Big garage *and* accessible basement?

That's a serious win! And congrats both to you and your fiance!

Thank you. We still have to buy a dishwasher…one that I will never be able to wash parts in…sniff. Actually, I have only ever done that because I can. It never worked that well for cleaning parts.

You can get an old dishwasher, and use simple green for a soap and that helps. A rinse only cycle helps loosen things up. Get one with a sterilize cycle and hot water helps it clean also.

You can get fancy and supply it with a pump on inlet that is fed from a 15 gallon drum and holds 60 psi to feed it incoming water. Put a degreaser in that drum. Have a second 15 gallon drum for old cleaner to go into. You can recycle water / cleaner for next batch if not to dirty. I've bought old ones from Craigslist for $10.00 that were taken out for a remodel.

Thanks,

I use a big tub of boiling hot water and Dawn dish soap. I use bore brushes and stiff nylon brushes as well as a small pressure washer attachment that hook up to my air compressor. I end up having to use solvents a lot less often. I really don't do enough engine work to warrant a dedicated set up, but it's a great idea and thank you. By the time I bring anything to the house, it's cleaner than the dishes…even when I didn't have to.

Kill switch repair worked. It's set on stun. I also repaired the horn cast with some JB weld. It had cracked where it mounts to the frame. I have a new one but was too lazy to paint it. Last thing is the neutral light. Pet peeve to have all the blinky lights working.

I will make an appointment for my road test soon.

Hoping to do the paint touch ups on the p200 soon. I was working on the floor board rust spots and they are not deep at all.

I will need to do some measuring on the VBB. It was a bit beat up and the frame may need some straightening. Nothing crazy but worthwhile to check.

BTW, does anyone have a link to a technical drawing for the VBB?

I have found drawings for a number of models, but not the VBB.

Thanks.

Here you go.