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The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
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greasy125 wrote:
they've gone up since then, but still under $100 to not have to rebuild a MC? yes and please.
alldayerryday. and now you have spare, which can still be rebuilt if necessary
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greasy125 wrote:
they've gone up since then, but still under $100 to not have to rebuild a MC? yes and please.
Yeah I was thinking that too...

Unfamiliar with that particular time/money/ass ache equation
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Gas tank is done. Not perfect but much better.
Before with a gooey layer of sealer
Before with a gooey layer of sealer
After. A little flash rust but I'm gonna run it.
After. A little flash rust but I'm gonna run it.
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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That's what fuel filters are for!
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chandlerman wrote:
That's what fuel filters are for!
I was going to run one but the one on the (new) tap looks like it should work pretty well. The one on the carb looks like it's a pretty fine mesh too. It wasn't even dirty, which was surprising given the condition of the tank. The old tap was pretty cruddy though.
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Lucky
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While the tap and (si) carb hand built in filters, I still had problems with crap from my tanks clogging jets until I installed a proper inline filter. Now, I won't run without one.
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Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
While the tap and (si) carb hand built in filters, I still had problems with crap from my tanks clogging jets until I installed a proper inline filter. Now, I won't run without one.
Which one do you use?
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Lucky
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UTC quote
FridayMatinee wrote:
Which one do you use?
I like the long NCY. it's glass so you can see how much crap is in it. I also have some from Summit Racing, but they don't have the glass. All of them work well, though.
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chandlerman wrote:
I like the long NCY. it's glass so you can see how much crap is in it. I also have some from Summit Racing, but they don't have the glass. All of them work well, though.
Where do you mount it? I run a glass filter in my bus for the same reason.
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Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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^^

I like the motion pro clear plastic filters with sintered bronze element. you can usually pick them up at the counter of bike shops or online for 3~5 bucks.

generally between the carb box and frame grommet. you can let it hang out or secure it with a zip tie.

BTW, what did you use to clean the tank? looks really good!
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greasy125 wrote:
^^

I like the motion pro clear plastic filters with sintered bronze element. you can usually pick them up at the counter of bike shops or online for 3~5 bucks.

generally between the carb box and frame grommet. you can let it hang out or secure it with a zip tie.

BTW, what did you use to clean the tank? looks really good!
Time did the heavy lifting.

Acetone to dissolve the liner, fill half way and rotate every 24 hours. Wash with hot soapy water.

Put a bunch of quartz gravel in it, wrap up in moving blankets. 30 minutes in the drier. I stuffed the dryer with other blankets so it wouldn't thump around. I couldn't even hear the gravel inside.

Fill 1/3 full with Ospho, rotate every 24 hours until the rust is gone. Took about a week.

If you are in a hurry, buy a new tank.
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I have been working on getting the rust out of the frame tunnel. I tried glass beads just for a few minutes just to see if it would work. It's hard to fit a sandblast gun in there but it will work. The front of the tunnel is plugged with plastic bags to prevent media from going into the fork and headset.

It almost looks like there is some kind of protective coating on the tunnel floor. Don't know if anyone has come across this.

I have considered making a removable access panel on the top of the frame tunnel where it is covered by the rubber mat to really get in there. It would be carefully done with flush countersunk screws and the panel would sit flush with the rest of the frame. I might try to clean off a section of the undercoat with acetone to see what's there.

The glass beading works well, just timing consuming because it's hard to move.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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I wouldn't mess with the tunnel. That's structural so you don't want to be cutting any more holes in it than absolutely necessary. If you have to go in, do so from below and then weld it back up afterwards.

V oodoo has done some interesting floorboard modifications and repairs if you can find him or he pops up to provide links. I know he linked to a floorboard replacement in my GL thread if you want to go dig through it.
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chandlerman wrote:
I wouldn't mess with the tunnel. That's structural so you don't want to be cutting any more holes in it than absolutely necessary. If you have to go in, do so from below and then weld it back up afterwards.

V oodoo has done some interesting floorboard modifications and repairs if you can find him or he pops up to provide links. I know he linked to a floorboard replacement in my GL thread if you want to go dig through it.
Thanks! I'll check it out.
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'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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Yeah, I've rescued several bikes w/ rotten floors by securely bolting a new 16ga galvanized bottom underneath. Stronger and stiffer than stock, plus you can get good tunnel access and there's no welding. Although you usually can't SEE it, it looks nothing like original if that's important to you. In this case I really doubt it would be warranted, your floor is likely pretty solid - I'd just get in there with Ospho and then a good coat of self etching primer, and done.

Prepped to receive new floor layer :

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
awesome tunnel access now. Facepalm emoticon

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Bolted in place.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

The panel is held on by automotive panel adhesive in adition to the four rows of bolts. The bike is a lot stiffer than stock bikes w/ solid rustfree frames, you can barely 'shake' the headset at speed. More here Vespa Dirt Bike Builds .
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V oodoo wrote:
Yeah, I've rescued several bikes w/ rotten floors by securely bolting a new 16ga galvanized bottom underneath. Stronger and stiffer than stock, plus you can get good tunnel access and there's no welding. Although you usually can't SEE it, it looks nothing like original if that's important to you. In this case I really doubt it would be warranted, your floor is likely pretty solid - I'd just get in there with Ospho and then a good coat of self etching primer, and done.

Prepped to receive new floor layer :

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
awesome tunnel access now. Facepalm emoticon

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Bolted in place.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

The panel is held on by automotive panel adhesive in adition to the four rows of bolts. The bike is a lot stiffer than stock bikes w/ solid rustfree frames, you can barely 'shake' the headset at speed. More here Vespa Dirt Bike Builds .
Thank you. That looks like a solid fix that would give a rusty bike new life.

You are right, there is not much rust in this bike to warrant that kind of repair. I should be able to clean it up with blasting. A little awkward, but doable, followed by Ospho and primer.
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I'd be wary of blasting deep into the tunnel. The grit can get into places you may later regret according to those who've done it. And besides, the Ospho is designed to KILL any rust and stop it from spreading by converting active rust into paintable inert iron phosphate. And you could then use something like BOESHIELD T-9 after you paint for extra insurance if you live by the sea or have to deal with moisture a lot.
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V oodoo wrote:
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Bolted in place.
two questions: is that kickstart lug, uh, extended? like it was broken and you welded on a new piece that is longer?

what kind of pipe is that?
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In that pic, it's still got the hopped up Bajaj 166 that wound up in my AllState and the pipe is a SIP Road 2. Kickstart extension is an optical illusion.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Bajaj motor but it has Piaggio logos on it too, so semi-legit!

Sprint now has a P200 motor w/ another SIP Road, and sported this fun little pipe at first for a spell, but it annoyed some of my old lady neighbors too much. Me too actually, BUT sure was fun! Some kinda custom race pipe I think, w/ a tired silencer. Facepalm emoticon

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
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V oodoo wrote:
I'd be wary of blasting deep into the tunnel. The grit can get into places you may later regret according to those who've done it. And besides, the Ospho is designed to KILL any rust and stop it from spreading by converting active rust into paintable inert iron phosphate. And you could then use something like BOESHIELD T-9 after you paint for extra insurance if you live by the sea or have to deal with moisture a lot.
Yeah, blasting can have it downsides. I have routed the wiring loom and cables out through the brake pedal opening then wrapped them . The tunnel has been plugged up beyond where I'm blasting so it won't get into the headset or fork. I think there is a coating on the floor, more than rust. Looks suspiciously like the sealer in the gas tank. Once I clean that out with some acetone there shouldn't be much blasting to do.
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It's 3*F here and will only get to 7. Hope I can warm up the garage enough to get something done. As promised some more photos of goodies.

Otherwise, documenting my OCD rust removal. I got good at this working on my bus. I have metal repairs on it that are easily 25 years old. Sucks to have to do it again.

Adding to my list, a new brake MC, line and caliper. Probably easier to just replace all of it and not waste time pontificating and diagnosticating.
Some rims and new mudguard. Rims are marked E- 10 x 2.5. Is that for a standard size tire? Are these better than stock rims?
Some rims and new mudguard. Rims are marked E- 10 x 2.5. Is that for a standard size tire? Are these better than stock rims?
A bbq rack and some uh...racing slicks. I think some extra wheels got thrown in during the confusion and darkness.
A bbq rack and some uh...racing slicks. I think some extra wheels got thrown in during the confusion and darkness.
Just about done cleaning up the 200.
Just about done cleaning up the 200.
Brrrrr!
Brrrrr!
Assorted hardware, used parts and spares.
Assorted hardware, used parts and spares.
Just about done with rust removal in the tunnel. Yeah I'm a little obsessed with rust removal.
Just about done with rust removal in the tunnel. Yeah I'm a little obsessed with rust removal.
Rust removal tools. The blasting gun can be fed into the tunnel and triggered from outside with a blow gun I have cobbled into the airline. I got the worst of the rust with naval jelly and reaching my long bendy Gumby arm in there with a wire brush.
Rust removal tools. The blasting gun can be fed into the tunnel and triggered from outside with a blow gun I have cobbled into the airline. I got the worst of the rust with naval jelly and reaching my long bendy Gumby arm in there with a wire brush.
I think I'll call this scrap. Caliper is stuck too.
I think I'll call this scrap. Caliper is stuck too.
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Nedminder
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UTC quote
Tunnel looks superb.
Are those SIP rims?
If you look on their site - they list the tire options I think for allowable widths.
I love their rims - but be warned - putting tires on them is an art.
Challenge to do it without scratching.
Probably need to find capable local guy who messes with motorcycles and the like.
Other's can recommend - tape edges/ warm tires/ and what not.

Noticed your comments here/ elsewere on cylinders.
You will get expert in all this.
Here is my shortcut/ $.02

Go with an aluminum Nikasil cylinder.
They tend not to seize vs iron - which WILL.
VMC/BGM//Malossi are all great choices.
Quality of coating is in same order as that list - Malossi being the nicest.
Cost is also relative to that list.

A BGM plug and play with no modifications to the case will yield more HP than a P200.
No need to go with a 200CC.
Can't go wrong there for simplicity/reliability/joy factor.
Suspect same is true of the other two options.

If you are replacing the crank - a 60mm gives you a little more thumpiness and grunt - and an extra 10cc's on any of these kits.

FWIW...
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One of the nice things about buying scooters from a forum member is that I can read all his posts about these scooters and not bother him with questions.

He seemed to like the kitted Stella a lot. He wanted a 200 but seemed underwhelmed with it compared to the Stella with the 177 Polini kit, upgear and disc brake.

The 200 engine ended up sucking a clutch side seal and having debris damage the rotary pad. My instinct was to crack the case and poke at it, but I know he repaired it with JB weld. I found a photo of the pad damage and decided to leave it alone. I know an epoxy repair is in the factory manual and works well if done right. The damage in this pad would have made it a good candidate for a JB weld repair since it's only scored and not missing a big chunk.
Rotary pad damage on 200 before JB weld repair.
Rotary pad damage on 200 before JB weld repair.
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2007 Stella 225
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UTC quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Tunnel looks superb.
Are those SIP rims?
If you look on their site - they list the tire options I think for allowable widths.
I love their rims - but be warned - putting tires on them is an art.
Challenge to do it without scratching.
Probably need to find capable local guy who messes with motorcycles and the like.
Other's can recommend - tape edges/ warm tires/ and what not.

Noticed your comments here/ elsewere on cylinders.
You will get expert in all this.
Here is my shortcut/ $.02

Go with an aluminum Nikasil cylinder.
They tend not to seize vs iron - which WILL.
VMC/BGM//Malossi are all great choices.
Quality of coating is in same order as that list - Malossi being the nicest.
Cost is also relative to that list.

A BGM plug and play with no modifications to the case will yield more HP than a P200.
No need to go with a 200CC.
Can't go wrong there for simplicity/reliability/joy factor.
Suspect same is true of the other two options.

If you are replacing the crank - a 60mm gives you a little more thumpiness and grunt - and an extra 10cc's on any of these kits.

FWIW...
I agree and would go with a 60mm crank just to make adjusting for squish and port timing easier.
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Thanks!

At this point, I'm just getting the Stella and 200 going with their engines as is, so it's mostly getting the fuel systems nice and clean and the usual things needed on bikes that have been sitting.

The 200 has a Sip road 2 and was rejetted accordingly by the PO.

When I started all this, I was considering options for building a touring engine for my vbb. I got a lot of good input and learned that a 200 case was really not necessary for the performance I was looking for, especially with the kits you mentioned. The vbb is kind of on the back burner, but I will get to it.
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Last shot at the tunnel today. There is some kind of paint or coating that just won't come off. Wire brush, blasting, paint stripper...whatever it is, it's not rust. Gonna hit it one last time and call it good. When it's warmer, I will paint it with master series silver. That should do it.

My crazy rust removal techniques come from an awful project I did on the bus. After finishing all my metal work (so I thought) I found a pinhole on the front crush panel and just had to poke at it. (Don't go pokin' an old body man once told me). It went right through and I was showered with rust scabs and dust. Pounds of it came out, so the the whole thing had to come off. It's 2mm thick and looked perfect from the outside except for the pinhole. It turned into the most complicated cluster I have ever worked on.

Sorry for the digression and non Vespa content, but it puts my rustobsession in perspective and the techniques are pretty much how a Vespa frame would be restored.

Those rims! The red Stella has a set on them already. Little balance weight on them too. Guess the PO liked them enough to pick up a set for the 200. I will farm those out when the rest is done.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Inner valence welded up and blasted.
Inner valence welded up and blasted.
Fabbed these for the nose
Fabbed these for the nose
Inside the nose with bottle opener panel welded in.
Inside the nose with bottle opener panel welded in.
Coated with Master Series
Coated with Master Series
Mostly back together
Mostly back together
So this tunnel thing isn't all that bad...
So this tunnel thing isn't all that bad...
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Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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Quote:
I found a pinhole on the front crush panel
I thought the drivers legs were the crush panel on busses?

🙂.

Love them in truth.
That's some nice repair work.
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charlieman22 wrote:
I thought the drivers legs were the crush panel on busses?

🙂.

Love them in truth.
That's some nice repair work.
Lol, that big crush hump was added in '73. Even the older models do better than expected for having that flat nose. They are way overbuilt compared to today's cars. A camper weighs 2 1/2 tons.

I pity the sound cloud rapper who pulls out in front of me in his blinged out shitbox Hyundai.
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Progress has been slow; bad weather and busy with other things.

I have been chipping away at the tunnel and finally got it rust free. I threw every rust removal tool and trick at it. There are still some spots of strange coating that just won't come off, but it doesn't matter a bit for the final result. I will hit it with some Master Series silver, call it done and move on.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
This what I started with.
This what I started with.
Crusty
Crusty
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Nothing like getting back to bare metal.
Nothing like getting back to bare metal.
Say hello to my leetle friend...
Say hello to my leetle friend...
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orwell84 wrote:
Progress has been slow; bad weather and busy with other things.

I have been chipping away at the tunnel and finally got it rust free. I threw every rust removal tool and trick at it. There are still some spots of strange coating that just won't come off, but it doesn't matter a bit for the final result. I will hit it with some Master Series silver, call it done and move on.
Needle gun, haven't used one of those since my Navy days.
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the paint on that doesn't look half bad. I'd be inclined to run it as it looks!
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greasy125 wrote:
the paint on that doesn't look half bad. I'd be inclined to run it as it looks!
The paint is in really good shape. It will get some touching up with an airbrush on the floor along the tunnel seam. The cowls have minor dents. I'm just going to gently knock out the dents and give the whole thing a buff. It was resprayed the original color at some point but looks to be a good job.
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UTC quote
Now I'm just waiting for a warmish day so I can paint the inside of the tunnel. Will be kind of tedious with foam brushes taped to a dowl...

I have started on the Stella front brakes in the meantime. The MC actually is pretty clean inside and the broken sight glass popped out easily. I have a a seal kit and replacement sight glass so I might give it a shot before buying a new one. The caliper pistons are also stuck. I don't know if it's worth messing with or if I should just spring for new everything and save myself the hassle. The brake hose is surprisingly expensive. Does anyone sell a complete kit?

For both bikes, my to do list is:

Replace oil and fuel lines
Check brake pads and adjust brakes
P200-repair broken wires
Replace chassis rubber
Stella-repair CHT wire
Adjust cables
Change gear oil
Check/gap plugs
Rebuild carburators
lube suspension
Check tire pressure
Replace batteries

That's all I can think of at the moment.

Anything else I should do?

Thanks.
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9201
Location: Nashville

91 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9201
Location: Nashville

91 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
I replaced the calipers on my Stella with a SIP caliper. It was not expensive and has worked well for probably 5+ years. Definitely better than trying to repair the stock one.
@charlieman22 avatar
UTC

Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3960
Location: california
 
Nedminder
@charlieman22 avatar
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3960
Location: california
UTC quote
Safis is using some nice braided stainless brake lines - available from Ali-express. Check his "going back to rotary" thread - or maybe its his "very special project" one. There is a link there. You can thread them through the body and put the ends on once they are in place.
@geeklion avatar
UTC

The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1643
Location: PNW from LBC
 
The Dude
@geeklion avatar
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1643
Location: PNW from LBC
OP
@orwell84 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2790
Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2790
Location: northern New York
UTC quote
GeekLion wrote:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000181690135.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000311237686.html
Thank you!
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4943
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4943
UTC quote
orwell84 wrote:
Now I'm just waiting for a warmish day so I can paint the inside of the tunnel. Will be kind of tedious with foam brushes taped to a dowl...

I have started on the Stella front brakes in the meantime. The MC actually is pretty clean inside and the broken sight glass popped out easily. I have a a seal kit and replacement sight glass so I might give it a shot before buying a new one. The caliper pistons are also stuck. I don't know if it's worth messing with or if I should just spring for new everything and save myself the hassle. The brake hose is surprisingly expensive. Does anyone sell a complete kit?

For both bikes, my to do list is:

Replace oil and fuel lines
Check brake pads and adjust brakes
P200-repair broken wires
Replace chassis rubber
Stella-repair CHT wire
Adjust cables
Change gear oil
Check/gap plugs
Rebuild carburators
lube suspension
Check tire pressure
Replace batteries

That's all I can think of at the moment.

Anything else I should do?

Thanks.
I've rebuild around 15~20 moto and auto brake calipers. I never had any fuss doing it. If a rebuild kit is available for the caliper, I would hesitate to install it. Nor would I hesitate to disassemble yours right now in order to investigate the stick. Maybe you can simply pop the pistons out, remove the O rings, clean everything up really well, then reinstall everything?

Also, the *Stella (and PX disc) brake hose have a larger diameter than an normal aftermarket braided brake hose. That means that you'd have to grind/file the slot in the upper part of the frame's steering neck (where all the wires and control cable pass through) to be larger. It's not rocket science, but it might take a little time to do.



EDIT:*because the Stella and PX disc have larger diameter slots so that a hydro hose can fit though it. All drum brake largeframes (including the P series) have smaller diameter slots.
⚠️ Last edited by whodatschrome on UTC; edited 1 time
OP
@orwell84 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2790
Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2790
Location: northern New York
UTC quote
whodatschrome wrote:
I've rebuild around 15~20 moto and auto brake calipers. I never had any fuss doing it. If a rebuild kit is available for the caliper, I would hesitate to install it. Nor would I hesitate to disassemble yours right now in order to investigate the stick. Maybe you can simply pop the pistons out, remove the O rings, clean everything up really well, then reinstall everything?

Also, the Stella (and PX disc) brake hose have a larger diameter than an normal aftermarket braided brake hose. That means that you'd have to grind/file the slot in the upper part of the frame's steering neck (where all the wires and control cable pass through) to be larger. It's not rocket science, but it might take a little time to do.
Yes, I will at least give it a try. I have taken apart car calipers before. Thank you.
OP
@orwell84 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2790
Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2790
Location: northern New York
UTC quote
Today I got into the Stella brakes. The master cylinder moves freely and pumped a little fluid out of the bleeder valve.

The caliper...Either the pistons are fully retracted or...missing?!
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