Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:05 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:05 am linkquote
I rigged up a new kill switch a few months back and ground it to the frame, thinking I needed it for inspection. I will test it with it removed.

Another thing I read somewhere that in a DC only system the battery could be used to absorb current spikes and didn't really need to remain charged. I actually don't use it for anything.

The Stator puts out the correct 13-14 volts when there is no load (lights, etc). I'm going to give it a try with a DC headlight. I'm also not sure if I am getting outputs from all the coils.

Question: I think everything ends up sharing 1 ground and only the battery gets grounded to the frame. The black stator ground wire is also gets wired into the same ground wires. The spark circuit is grounded normally. Is this correct?
Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:35 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:35 am linkquote
In reading up, it seems that a Stator should be able to put out 13+V through the regulator even under load, so either something is sucking up tons of juice or I have not correctly joined the coils and am not getting all the full wave goodness out of my stator.

I am close to declaring victory on the ignition problem though.

I went for a long ride with no ignition issues at all. Temps did go up to 306*F, which suggests it needs more main. The road I was on was mostly all uphill into the mountains with lots of twisties. I am rarely in 4th gear or close to full throttle. As I was coming home, the idle would not come down consistently. I thought I had picked up an air leak, but I was out of gas. Seems like a Vespa will go miles running lean on fumes. Runs great like that though. The Runleader CHT/rev counter is the best $25 I ever spent.

Now that the ignition system is working, I can finally make a decent attempt at jetting. All bets are off without a good spark.

As for the charging system, I won't waste anyone's time with "where does this wire go"? questions. The only solution is quality time with the multimeter and wiring diagram. I have done a lot of rewiring and electrical trouble shooting on my bus, but this scooter AC/DC cluster does my head in.

Thanks for reading along, gents.


Making this pile of boogers and lead snot rockets…


…do this, has been the hardest part.

Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:22 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:22 am linkquote
I think I may have sorted out the charging system. We shall see. Everyone probably already knows that the headlight is on its own circuit, but I hadn't grasped that yet.

I hooked up the regulator so that the lighting wire powered the headlight and the charging wire runs to the battery and indicators, tail light, etc. The big thing I noticed was that the brake and instrument lights no longer dimmed when the headlight was on. I think I also had hooked up a relay incorrectly so that the battery was actually powering the switch all the time.

I thought the headlight was stock, but appears to be a halogen light which uses a lot of juice. I may try the super bright led that came with the bike. I'm thinking that it will consume less power than the halogen.

Getting there…
Fri Nov 04, 2022 5:03 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6790
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6790
Location: Nashville
Fri Nov 04, 2022 5:03 am linkquote
orwell84 wrote:
Is it charging enough?
No. It should still have 13.7V with load on the system.

As it stands, the lights are dragging it waaaay down, which means some sort of crazy load or maybe a ground short. I'd expect you'd see some smoking insulation or a blown fuse if that were the case, though.
Fri Nov 04, 2022 7:59 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
Fri Nov 04, 2022 7:59 am linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
No. It should still have 13.7V with load on the system.

As it stands, the lights are dragging it waaaay down, which means some sort of crazy load or maybe a ground short. I'd expect you'd see some smoking insulation or a blown fuse if that were the case, though.
I'm pretty sure the headlight has been dragging it down. When I ran the headlight wire directly to the red/yellow lighting wire directly to the headlight wire, it seemed to stop dragging down everything else.

The other thing that confuses me in the TT instructions is that it says that everything has to be grounded to the negative terminal on the battery. That isn't how DC anything automotive works. My signal lights are still grounded to the frame, for starters.
Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:38 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6790
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6790
Location: Nashville
Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:38 pm linkquote
corrosion of the wiring inside the harness is increasing resistance. It's a fire hazard and also will continue to accelerate resistance until the wire eventually just crumbles.

And, agreed, the battery, as well as everything else, should ground to the frame.
Fri Nov 04, 2022 3:22 pm

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
Fri Nov 04, 2022 3:22 pm linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
corrosion of the wiring inside the harness is increasing resistance. It's a fire hazard and also will continue to accelerate resistance until the wire eventually just crumbles.

And, agreed, the battery, as well as everything else, should ground to the frame.
Yup. Crazy stock wiring…Usually a wiring run will be a consistent color from the power source to its destination. Not on a Stella. It might change color a few times…often using the same color of an unrelated circuit.
Sun Nov 06, 2022 9:33 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
Sun Nov 06, 2022 9:33 am linkquote
Just about to declare victory on the charging system. The issue seemed to be my confusion with some of the repurposed wiring and the general workings of AC with DC circuits.

I went for a long ride today and the signal lights continued to work instead of slowly dying. I'm less concerned about the battery holding a charge. If everything works while running, I'm good.

The wiring is rather messy as I wanted to ride rather than pull the gas tank and go through it. Over the winter, I will tidy it up.

The way the engine is set up at this point, it feels a bit like the stock 200. But I haven't been on any roads where full throttle in 4th is possible.

I'm happy with where I ended up. Lots of false starts and going off on tangents or in circles. Thanks to the extended riding season, I was able to get in a lot of the riding time I missed.

As always, many thanks for all the help, good advice and encouragement.


Lonesome Crossroads, VT

Thu Nov 10, 2022 7:55 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
Thu Nov 10, 2022 7:55 am linkquote
More riding enjoyment. I now have a dedicated warm up lap and a designated parking lot to swap jets and twiddle carb screws.

Misfiring issues have not returned. Electrics no longer go dead. Strong at the end of the ride and the next day and the next. Starts first kick every time.

Last set of jets was idle: 40/120, AC 160, BE2, 122

The 122 went better than expected…maybe a bit rich. 125 definitely spluttered…122 a little bit in mid range with the BE2, but not the BE3. The 4 stroking at 1/4 throttle was much improved when running no air filter or when running the air screw really turned in…like 1 turn out from shut.

It seems the only way to get rid of the 1/4 throttle 4 stroking is to lean the idle jet way out, which I'm reluctant to do. I can live with it. The power comes on strong suddenly once past 1/4 throttle. Makes me think of a 4 stroke car with a hot cam. Good thing it isn't a bus.

Maybe the little reed on the Stella was made to work better at low revs with a restrictive exhaust. Throw a Road 2 on it and no more back pressure. I think I have hit the limit of what can be fine tuned with carburation on this combination.

Overall, I'm happy with it. Not perfect, but getting closer.
Thu Nov 10, 2022 8:56 am

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3528
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3528
Location: London UK
Thu Nov 10, 2022 8:56 am linkquote
orwell84 wrote:
More riding enjoyment. I now have a dedicated warm up lap and a designated parking lot to swap jets and twiddle carb screws.

Misfiring issues have not returned. Electrics no longer go dead. Strong at the end of the ride and the next day and the next. Starts first kick every time.

Last set of jets was idle: 40/120, AC 160, BE2, 122

The 122 went better than expected…maybe a bit rich. 125 definitely spluttered…122 a little bit in mid range with the BE2, but not the BE3. The 4 stroking at 1/4 throttle was much improved when running no air filter or when running the air screw really turned in…like 1 turn out from shut.

It seems the only way to get rid of the 1/4 throttle 4 stroking is to lean the idle jet way out, which I'm reluctant to do. I can live with it. The power comes on strong suddenly once past 1/4 throttle. Makes me think of a 4 stroke car with a hot cam. Good thing it isn't a bus.

Maybe the little reed on the Stella was made to work better at low revs with a restrictive exhaust. Throw a Road 2 on it and no more back pressure. I think I have hit the limit of what can be fine tuned with carburation on this combination.

Overall, I'm happy with it. Not perfect, but getting closer.
Now you have a warm up lap and fiddling stop, let's put it to good use. So you can make the most of the remaining weather.

The AC160/BE2 is known as the "grenade combo". Each has its uses but never together.

The main stack should be AC140/BE5/ and main jet to suit working down from full WOT splutter. Ending about 115 probably.

Once this is done the pilot jet can be set easily.
Thu Nov 10, 2022 9:11 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
Thu Nov 10, 2022 9:11 am linkquote
Jack221 wrote:
Now you have a warm up lap and fiddling stop, let's put it to good use. So you can make the most of the remaining weather.

The AC160/BE2 is known as the "grenade combo". Each has its uses but never together.

The main stack should be AC140/BE5/ and main jet to suit working down from full WOT splutter. Ending about 115 probably.

Once this is done the pilot jet can be set easily.
Thanks! Yes, it felt all wrong.

I will start with the AC 140/BE5 combo and go from there.
Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:27 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:27 am linkquote
One thing I noticed that may be throwing things off.

The seat for the mixture screw looks like it has some damage. I don't know if this makes a big difference but then again, the holes that determine jet sizes are very small.

Just a thought…


Damaged mixture screw seat

Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:51 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:51 am linkquote
Went for a nice ride on Friday. Tried 140/BE5/115. Had spluttering in upper range so threw in a 112 main which mostly cleared it up, but may be too lean. I definitely need more jets. I haven't been doing plug chops as I am hoping to get in the neighborhood of the correct range before I go through all my new plugs. I was also running an undrilled air filter as I misplaced the drilled filter when last swapping carbs. I will need more jets. The weather has since turned to shit and will pretty much stay that way until April.


Back to the 200. Bottom has minimal surface rust. Might give it the same treatment as the tunnel.


Tempted to just respray the whole bike.

Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:49 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 6698
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 6698
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:49 am linkquote
eastwood fast etch and owatrol oil will protect that
Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:27 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:27 am linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
eastwood fast etch and owatrol oil will protect that
Yes, it's not real rust. This may end up more of a restoration, though. The paint is the same color, but not original, so repainting it would not end up as patina destruction. The respray is chipping/peeling in places where prep was not as good. A 77 P200e is not a typical candidate for this, but I have wanted one since the late 80's. Will see how it goes. I got all winter and one rideable scoot so no pressure either way.
Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:25 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 6698
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 6698
Location: San Diego, CA
Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:25 am linkquote
yeah you have choices - the underside need not match. you can go with the simple I proposed or paint it or treat / prime / paint / truck bed liner or whatever catches your fancy. but if you're going to paint the rest of the bike then i think it's pretty clear what will happen on the bottom
Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:55 pm

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:55 pm linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
yeah you have choices - the underside need not match. you can go with the simple I proposed or paint it or treat / prime / paint / truck bed liner or whatever catches your fancy. but if you're going to paint the rest of the bike then i think it's pretty clear what will happen on the bottom
I will probably use the same Master Series stuff I used on the underside of my bus. It's nearly bulletproof and meant to be applied with a brush.

I brought the VBB down over the weekend. I was surprised to find that the P series is almost exactly the same size. The VBB actually slightly wider at he legshield and the tail slightly longer. The P series bikes always seemed larger, even taking into account the 8 vs 10" wheels.









Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:50 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:50 am linkquote
Stripping the 200. At first, I was only going to do touch ups, but got to the point where a respray made more sense. The previous respray was laid down thick…too thick for just scuffing and painting over it. I'm using a grinder with a fibrous plastic stripping disc. It removes paint without damaging metal.

I use a number of techniques to mechanically strip paint. I reserve sandblasting for rust. There is not much rust left and only a small dent on the legshield to work out. No bondo on it.

Also stripping the VBB as I work on the metal finishing. I'm hoping to complete all the prep, then bring them to a shop near where I work for the topcoat.

Jets are on the way for the Stella. If we get the odd warm day, I will try them out.






Really pleased with how the legshield is coming out.



Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:28 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:28 am linkquote
It was 48* yesterday and jets had just arrived from Scooter Mercato.

A couple weeks back, I tried 140AC/be5/115MJ. It spluttered a past half throttle so I tried a 112MJ and the splutter went away, but it doesn't pull well in 4th.

I realized I have been swapping 2 air filters as if they were interchangeable, but one is drilled above the jets.

Yesterday, I tried 140/be5/116 with the drilled filter. Much better. 4 stroking stayed put below 1/4 throttle and no splitter so I can go richer.

Just to clarify some things. Spluttering/4 stroking at high throttle to WOT=Rich.

I am trying to figure out whether I am getting bogging or sagging now. The scooter accelerates nicely in 3rd, but in 4th it accelerates very slowly. Giving it more throttle doesn't help. I'm thinking that I should go with a bigger main jet, but not sure.
Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:09 pm

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3528
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3528
Location: London UK
Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:09 pm linkquote
When not sure what to do when jetting in, go richer. And by a lot. From where you are put in a 125 main jet. Make sure it just will not rev and when you try to ride it's so bad the only thing to do is put in a smaller jet.
Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:50 pm

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:50 pm linkquote
Jack221 wrote:
When not sure what to do when jetting in, go richer. And by a lot. From where you are put in a 125 main jet. Make sure it just will not rev and when you try to ride it's so bad the only thing to do is put in a smaller jet.
Thanks! Will do. I now have a complete range of jets from 100 to 128 so I can step down in order instead of playing jet roulette.
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