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Thanks for the replies.

I went through the guide coat stage awhile back. Now I'm just sanding off the last of the peel. Since the last primer coats were pretty glossy, I can see where I missed and where it's not flat. Just about done.
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Well, it's Monday and painting isn't going to happen today as scheduled.

I was going to take a day off work, but the kids and the Mrs. are all home for a snow day. I can't really work with everyone around. The Mrs. is really tolerant when I parade Vespa bits through the living room on my way from the garage to the basement and back again. She is pretty cool with all my crazy projects, but she just cannot abide paint smells. I really can't hold that against her.

At least I did finish all the prep and sanding, got my work area all cleaned up and ready and organized my supplies. No fun to go rummaging for stuff halfway through a coat of paint.

Someday soon, the stars will line up again and I will get it done.
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I'm just itching to paint something.

Everything is done as best as I can get it. Any missed flaws will have to be dealt with in the topcoat.

Monday will be 50* and nobody home. I will have some time to practice on some small pieces tomorrow. I am going to try out a touch up gun. Might paint everything with that depending on how well it works.

Some things that occurred to me never mentioned in how-to videos:

Having jars, basins, and a trash bin on hand for quick gun cleaning, managing spills and dribbles, etc.

Gotta get this done.
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orwell84 wrote:
I'm just itching to paint something.

Everything is done as best as I can get it. Any missed flaws will have to be dealt with in the topcoat.

Monday will be 50* and nobody home. I will have some time to practice on some small pieces tomorrow. I am going to try out a touch up gun. Might paint everything with that depending on how well it works.

Some things that occurred to me never mentioned in how-to videos:

Having jars, basins, and a trash bin on hand for quick gun cleaning, managing spills and dribbles, etc.

Gotta get this done.
If you have time, do a mock up of how you plan on supporting parts and how they will be held in position for painting. Particularly the small parts. What you don't want is to suspend them in a way that will cause them to swing around due to the air pressure of your paint gun. If this happens you will end up with uneven paint coverage and runs. Hook up your spray gun and hit your parts with air and see what happens. You may need to get creative with how your parts are supported for painting.

Good luck!

Hec
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Hec In Omaha wrote:
If you have time, do a mock up of how you plan on supporting parts and how they will be held in position for painting. Particularly the small parts. What you don't want is to suspend them in a way that will cause them to swing around due to the air pressure of your paint gun. If this happens you will end up with uneven paint coverage and runs. Hook up your spray gun and hit your parts with air and see what happens. You may need to get creative with how your parts are supported for painting.

Good luck!

Hec
That's how I'm doing it. The rack I built allows me to anchor parts at multiple points so they stay put while spraying and curing. It would be nice to do everything in one go, but usually I need to do touch ups later anyway.

It took me over an hour to gather all the stuff I will need. On past projects, I usually do it after I have started painting.

Collision shops really don't want to deal with your prepped vehicle. It messes up their flow and they don't want deal with the potential consequences of someone's bad prep.
Scrap lumber and oddball screws from the rusty coffee can. Looking professional.
Scrap lumber and oddball screws from the rusty coffee can. Looking professional.
I never spend enough time setting up the paint gun…usually a couple shots at a rusty trash can. Dedicated practice spot ready to go.
I never spend enough time setting up the paint gun…usually a couple shots at a rusty trash can. Dedicated practice spot ready to go.
Primered parts ready to go.
Primered parts ready to go.
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Make sure to give your paint booth a good cleaning before you start. The last thing you want are bits of sawdust falling from the rafters like snowflakes onto your nice new paint.
Quote:
Collision shops really don't want to deal with your prepped vehicle.
Now days true, but remember Earl Sheib? Back in college, I took my 66 VW Bug to them basically in boxes. I did all the body work, sanded every square millimeter by hand, took off the fenders, lights, mirrors, door handles, taped everything off and dropped it off for a $99 special. The guys were like, sure no problem kid. Turned out awesome!
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SoCalGuy wrote:
Make sure to give your paint booth a good cleaning before you start. The last thing you want are bits of sawdust falling from the rafters like snowflakes onto your nice new paint.



Now days true, but remember Earl Sheib? Back in college, I took my 66 VW Bug to them basically in boxes. I did all the body work, sanded every square millimeter by hand, took off the fenders, lights, mirrors, door handles, taped everything off and dropped it off for a $99 special. The guys were like, sure no problem kid. Turned out awesome!
Yeah, I remember those days. In the early 90's a shop resprayed my '82 Renault Fuego I had prepped. They sent me back the first time to fix some things I missed sanding. It came out great. They charged me an hour labor and the cost of paint. Those were the days.
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SoCalGuy wrote:
... remember Earl Sheib?...
Oh yeah, paint any car for $99.99. I never had a car painted by them but went to the shop numerous times with friends who had their vehicles painted. Always turned out great!
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qascooter wrote:
Oh yeah, paint any car for $99.99. I never had a car painted by them but went to the shop numerous times with friends who had their vehicles painted. Always turned out great!
It's true. The quality of the final product is mostly in the prep as is often said. Anybody who paints all day long for a living can lay down a nice coat of paint in a decent booth.

I need to learn how to actually paint because it's really not feasible to strip my bus down to a bare shell and deliver it to a shop. One cab door is its own project. If I don't do it myself in sections, it would be off the road for years.
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Finally got some paint in this thing.

Still some small pieces I didn't get to. There just wasn't enough space.

Got some brutal runs that will have to be sanded out, mostly on the small parts as well as lots of dust nibs.

The biggest issue I had, other than being a shit painter, was working in such a confined space with parts too close together.

There will be another round of painting some time in the future, but it should be a lot easier.
I got the runs
I got the runs
Gloss was not bad.
Gloss was not bad.
Glad to have this done. Tired of lugging it between the basement and garage.
Glad to have this done. Tired of lugging it between the basement and garage.
One more.
One more.
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Took a quick look at everything this morning and I'm pretty happy with how the frame turned out. There are a few big runs, but I should be able to get them out. I was really trying to avoid orange peel. I guess you get one or the other until you find the sweet spot in the middle.

The glove box is a mess. That's gotta get redone. Maybe the cowls too, depending on how it goes with getting out the runs.

If I were doing this again in the space I have, I would have just done the backs of the cowls, glovebox and mudguard and done the the tops on another day when I could position them better.

Some other issues: Not enough ventilation to get rid of the overspray. Probably unsafe and it made it hard to see with overspray sticking to my glasses.

On a good note, I am confident that I can do a decent job on my bus. I can put down nice coats when I have enough space to swing the gun properly. Leaning, reaching, spraying at odd angles like with the scooter, all bets are off.
Missed a spot along the edge of the legshield. Should I touch it up or leave it?
Missed a spot along the edge of the legshield. Should I touch it up or leave it?
Color is closer to the original. I like it.
Color is closer to the original. I like it.
Back in the basement.
Back in the basement.
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That looks excellent!

If you're going to put aluminum trim on the legshield, I'd just leave it as is.
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Great color looking fantastic!
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Different industry would think the same theory would apply for over spray. Put furnace filters near the top to pull in cleaner air. Put a box fan or fans as an exhaust near floor with furnace filters taped to back to contain some of the spray. This pulls over spray toward floor and gets clean air from higher up to reduce dirt or dust.


If you didn't turn everything on before starting and blow air around to help blow around and suck dirt into box fan filter.

Your paint job looks better than mine most of the time. We just don't do it enough to get a professional job every time. Not to mention we see the finished product.
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Looking good! Don't sweat the runs. Hopefully you can wet sand them out without needing to repaint. Boy that blue sure looks like the blue my P125X used to be! Good to see your a V-Dub fan! I am one too! I have owned a 66 Baja Bug, 76 Bug Convertible, 71 super beetle custom. It made the cover of JC Whitney and was used in their advertising for almost 10 yrs. JC Whitney had my bug for an entire day at a professional indoor photo shoot. Those pics were used in the ads.
Now for the VW Bus. Wait for it! Wait for it! In college (1993) I had a sweet 1965 Microbus 21 window Delux! Complete with sliding ragtop sunroof and skylight windows. Wish I had that one back!

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Solid work! Looks great!
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OG colours are the best…
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Hec In Omaha wrote:
Looking good! Don't sweat the runs. Hopefully you can wet sand them out without needing to repaint. Boy that blue sure looks like the blue my P125X used to be! Good to see your a V-Dub fan! I am one too! I have owned a 66 Baja Bug, 76 Bug Convertible, 71 super beetle custom. It made the cover of JC Whitney and was used in their advertising for almost 10 yrs. JC Whitney had my bug for an entire day at a professional indoor photo shoot. Those pics were used in the ads.
Now for the VW Bus. Wait for it! Wait for it! In college (1993) I had a sweet 1965 Microbus 21 window Delux! Complete with sliding ragtop sunroof and skylight windows. Wish I had that one back!

Hec
Wow! The 21 window split bus is like the holy grail. I've owned my bus since 1990 (when I was in college). It was my grandmother's. Most of that time it has been on the road.

Started attacking the some of the worst runs on the frame and mudguard. I razor them down a little then flat them with 1000, 1500, 2000 grit.

The frame is going well, but the mudguard sanded through in one spot, so it will at least get touched up if not resprayed. No worries though, as it's easy enough to flat back down and recoat.

After I get the frame, mudguard and headset finished, I can put the fork back in and start to reassemble. It will be nice to empty all those bins full of parts.

I was looking over the VBB yesterday and noticed the primer inside the frame tunnel is brown. I thought it was rust. It's actually in great shape so I won't have to sandblast the inside of the frame tunnel like I did on the 200. That saves me a ton of work.
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chandlerman wrote:
That looks excellent!

If you're going to put aluminum trim on the legshield, I'd just leave it as is.
Thanks!

Yeah, about legshield trim. Heard there is a bolt on type by ?Cuppuchini? Wondering if it's any good. It's one place I'm happy to skip originality. The crimp on trim looks like it would take a lot of practice to get right.
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orwell84 wrote:
Thanks!

Yeah, about legshield trim. Heard there is a bolt on type by ?Cuppuchini? Wondering if it's any good. It's one place I'm happy to skip originality. The crimp on trim looks like it would take a lot of practice to get right.
The crimp on trim is less about practice and more about following the process and having the tool.

Bad news is that the process ideally starts, like floor rails, by doing a rough fit of the trim before you paint so nothing gets scratched up in the process. Not to worry, it's still doable just fine, but loads of masking tape is your friend for this adventure.

and you MUST do it before you install the fork and headset or you'll never get the center right.
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orwell84 wrote:
Thanks!

Yeah, about legshield trim. Heard there is a bolt on type by ?Cuppuchini? Wondering if it's any good. It's one place I'm happy to skip originality. The crimp on trim looks like it would take a lot of practice to get right.
Yup it's kinda late for the crimp on trim. The key to installing the crimp on leg shield trim is pre-fitting it prior to paint, much like pre-fitting the floor rails prior to paint. That's what I did with mine. Don't get me wrong you could install the crimp on leg shield but risk chipping paint or scratching paint when you are fitting it to the legshield. The crimp on trim does come preformed but requires tweaking here and there, not to mention you will need the special crimp on tool. If I were you, I think I would go with the plastic chrome looking snap in trim.

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I had put on two sets of aluminum crimp-on after painting and I am happy to say the scooter's paint survived. I scratched into the primer inone tiny spot but it was under the trim, so a bit of clear coat was dabbed on, and now you cant see it. Why 2 sets? BC I fucked up when crimping the first set.

It is essential that you do the top and especially the curves at the top first, Start with little crimps in the center by the fork tube and then roll at the center. Then crimp at the top of the curves and then down. As you do the first set of curves it will flare the aluminum further down, so readjust the lower trim and tighten the straps working down in the same fashion. Crimp a little then roll a little, crimp a little then roll. Assess and readjust.
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Thank you.

I believe the trim I took off was the chrome/plastic snap on version. Not sure if it was original, but it looked fine. I will go with that.

My floor rails are original and in good shape. I didn't do much metal finishing on the floor to avoid changing the fit. I'm sure it will suck anyway. Maybe I will splash on the SIP rivet tool.
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More drip sanding. The bottom of the legshield had a few curtains of ooze. What a mess. Got them all flatted down but went through to primer in a couple spots. Guess the paint went on thin there as it was hard to see or reach.

I think what I'll do is finish flatting down the whole frame and touch up any spots with an airbrush or touch up gun. They should blend in with buffing.

Funny when you are focused on picking at drips and flaws…It seems like a disaster. Then you step away for awhile and it ends up looking not so bad. Won't really see that part anyway.

Question: What buffing compound(s) should I use? McGuire's is easy to find around here. Thanks.
Lots of runs.
Lots of runs.
Not so bad after all.
Not so bad after all.
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Ended up sanding through in more spots along the bottom of the legshield where it bends into the floor. I didn't get enough paint on there. Most of the areas I messed up aren't places that are easily seen.

I should be able to go over that part with a couple coats of reduced topcoat after flatting it down with 1500 grit. First coat goes over the sand-throughs and second and third coats get feathered out a bit further each coat.

I was able to get out the worst of the runs and polish it out by hand. Forgot to take pics.

Fixing paint is it's own skill set. I've done more of that over the years than actual painting.
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orwell84 wrote:
Ended up sanding through in more spots along the bottom of the legshield where it bends into the floor. I didn't get enough paint on there. Most of the areas I messed up aren't places that are easily seen.

I should be able to go over that part with a couple coats of reduced topcoat after flatting it down with 1500 grit. First coat goes over the sand-throughs and second and third coats get feathered out a bit further each coat.

I was able to get out the worst of the runs and polish it out by hand. Forgot to take pics.

Fixing paint is it's own skill set. I've done more of that over the years than actual painting.
Painting for me is like welding. Both end up removing buggers with an abrasive! ROFL emoticon

Hec
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Hec In Omaha wrote:
Painting for me is like welding. Both end up removing buggers with an abrasive! ROFL emoticon

Hec
Exactly! My welding is the same. Lots of grinding and touching up. Taught my neighbor to MIG weld in an afternoon. By the end, he was way better than me. He is retired army and can fix anything.

Would call this project a mechanic's paint job.
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I'm finding that I'm sanding through to primer when getting out runs, even places I thought were well covered. I've been going slow with 2000 grit and not going any deeper than the runs, but it's looking like the paint just isn't thick enough.

I'm thinking I might have to do a couple more coats at least on the parts of the bike that are visible.

Any thoughts?
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How many coats did you do to start? I generally only do two color coats unless I screw up along the way.
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chandlerman wrote:
How many coats did you do to start? I generally only do two color coats unless I screw up along the way.
I did 3 coats (single stage urethane). Actually it's mostly stuff that was hard to reach or painted upside down. Probably didn't get 3 coats. Like the photo below. I guess not all that visible.
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At this point, it's looking like there are a number of spots that I missed or didn't cover very well on just about everything.

Sanding out runs and sanding and buffing look great unless there isn't enough paint coverage to work with. At a certain point, there are so many areas to touch up and blend that it's actually less work to just scuff and recoat. Kind of a pain, but easier in the long run.
Cowl after partial cut and buff. Still lots of runs, so just gonna recoat.
Cowl after partial cut and buff. Still lots of runs, so just gonna recoat.
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You're doing the right thing. Just flatten out the runs and orange peel and give everything a scuff with 320-400. The next two coats are actually going to look amazing. You'll see.
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SoCalGuy wrote:
You're doing the right thing. Just flatten out the runs and orange peel and give everything a scuff with 320-400. The next two coats are actually going to look amazing. You'll see.
I went through this when I repaired the GL. After I flatted down and repainted the mudguard and frame, I wound up having to re-do the cowls because they were so much less shiny as compared.
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chandlerman wrote:
I went through this when I repaired the GL. After I flatted down and repainted the mudguard and frame, I wound up having to re-do the cowls because they were so much less shiny as compared.
Yup. Recoating is a pain, but will end up being less work overall with a better result. I learned a lot the first time through like:

How to adjust the gun for different spots.

What places get too much or too little paint on the weird shape of a Vespa. It's way harder to paint than car panels.

General work flow, time and space requirements.

How to handle materials without making a huge mess.

Cut and buff 101; The difference is night and day. It's reassuring that anything can be fixed if the paint is thick enough to work with. It makes the whole process a lot less nerve wracking.

If I had farmed it out to a pro, I would have ended up with a flawless factory-like finish as my prep was good. That would have been fine, but learning how to paint is as important as the final product to me.

The VBB is definitely going to be orange.
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Posts: 2764
Location: northern New York
UTC quote
When I started color sanding the frame, I broke through to primer in a couple of spots. I decided at that point to flat down large sections of the frame to recoat.

Turns out there were only a couple of thin spots that I missed because of the angle I had set up the frame for paint.

In hindsight, I could have touched up and blended, but at this point I am stuck with recoating the areas I flatted down.

Part of the process is deciding whether to redo work or call it good and keep moving forward. It's not always obvious when learning a new skill. In this case, I might end up wasting time and materials, but really no harm done.
Recoating topside except for the floor and back of legshield.
Recoating topside except for the floor and back of legshield.
OP
@orwell84 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2764
Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2764
Location: northern New York
UTC quote
Today I hit that point I always get to with projects like this; overthinking, second guessing and generally feeling like a crazy person. After finishing up the sanding, cleaning and masking, reshooting the frame seems like the right call. Onward.
Think of it as blue primer.
Think of it as blue primer.
Forgot how long and tedious masking could be.
Forgot how long and tedious masking could be.
@hec_in_omaha avatar
UTC

Hooked
1980 P125X US Spec
Joined: UTC
Posts: 393
Location: Beaver Lake, Nebraska USA
 
Hooked
@hec_in_omaha avatar
1980 P125X US Spec
Joined: UTC
Posts: 393
Location: Beaver Lake, Nebraska USA
UTC quote
orwell84 wrote:
Today I hit that point I always get to with projects like this; overthinking, second guessing and generally feeling like a crazy person.
Been there! Done that!

You made the right call to respray the frame. You understand now what went wrong and will correct your techniques moving forward. It's a learning process!

Like the saying says.
Life is a cruel teacher. She loves to give the test first and the lesson later. Facepalm emoticon

Good luck!

Hec
@birdsnest avatar
UTC

Not So Moderator
VNB VSC 09C VMA VSX - vbc vmb
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7775
Location: Hustletown, TX
 
Not So Moderator
@birdsnest avatar
VNB VSC 09C VMA VSX - vbc vmb
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7775
Location: Hustletown, TX
UTC quote
I suspect you will be pleased with the extra effort. Masking all that off to prevent overspray is the right call. Should look ace when you are done!
OP
@orwell84 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2764
Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2764
Location: northern New York
UTC quote
Thanks! I learned as much as I could before shooting the paint, but the most learning takes place when trying.

When the Mrs was learning to sew, I told her that she had to expect to make a lot of mistakes and just dive in.

Some people are naturals at picking up new skills, but for most people, it takes a lot of practice.
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9167
Location: Nashville

84 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9167
Location: Nashville

84 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
I'm glad you're deciding to just power through on the paint. There's really no better way forward then flatting down and re-shooting. Like I (think I) said above, when you do that, you'll probably get a better finish than you'd ever have gotten otherwise.

You're almost there and it'll be aces when you're finished!
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