Modern Vespa : That escalated quickly-200 out of the display case

That escalated quickly-200 out of the display case

Ray8 UTC details Ossessionato Joined: UTC Posts: 2148 Location: Los Angeles
Ray8 Ossessionato Joined: UTC Posts: 2148 Location: Los Angeles	UTC quote orwell84 wrote: Thanks for your suggestion. I may give it a try, or may just farm it out. Email Steve at SpeedoKing and ask for a "pre-rolled" bezel.

SoCalGuy UTC details bodgemaster 63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150 Joined: UTC Posts: 7386 Location: So Cal
SoCalGuy bodgemaster 63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150 Joined: UTC Posts: 7386 Location: So Cal	UTC quote Not to hijack, but I've always been curious about the insanely tight press fit of the original speedo bezel. Obviously some kind of jig was used, but anyone know how Veglia actually achieved that at the factory?

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BajaRob wrote:

I'm looking forward to seeing you do your legshield trim. You're at the stage that makes me nervous, assembling without scratching the paint.

When Steve repaired my speedo he went through the whole thing and not just change the plate and lens. It'll probably outlast me now. Can't recommend him enough, really great work.

Makes me nervous too. I went with the plastic snap on trim. I'm willing to make a few compromises with absolute originality to avoid aggravation. Maybe the same with the floor rail rivets. I might go with M3 screws and acorn nuts.

As for the Speedo. Sending it to Speedo king seems like the best idea. The old bezel came off ugly. There are special tools and skills involved that would make it a long detour. The only thing I have farmed out so far.

OP orwell84 UTC details Ossessionato Joined: UTC Posts: 3844 Location: northern New York
OP orwell84 Ossessionato Joined: UTC Posts: 3844 Location: northern New York	UTC quote Does this look right?

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SoCalGuy wrote:

Not to hijack, but I've always been curious about the insanely tight press fit of the original speedo bezel. Obviously some kind of jig was used, but anyone know how Veglia actually achieved that at the factory?

Not a hijack at all. I came across a video of a similar type of speedometer. A machine was used to crimp the bezel on. Hec's suggestion of making a jig is a good one. I saw a video of someone who did something similar. Often, cobbling together a specialty tool is exactly my kind of trip. Not so much for this particular part.

I am usually hesitant to call a project a restoration. In other forums, people often line up to tell why it isn't because some particular detail is wrong. This project started out as touching up paint. In my mind, this qualifies as a restoration. Not just because I pulled everything apart, but also the quality of the work. So yeah, gonna call speedo king.

SoCalGuy UTC details bodgemaster 63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150 Joined: UTC Posts: 7386 Location: So Cal
SoCalGuy bodgemaster 63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150 Joined: UTC Posts: 7386 Location: So Cal	UTC quote Quote: A machine was used to crimp the bezel on. Thx yeah, figured a machine was involved. It's the operation of said machine I'm having trouble envisioning. SpeedoKing does a fantastic job but even he doesn't duplicate that crazy tight factory crimp.

OP orwell84 UTC details Ossessionato Joined: UTC Posts: 3844 Location: northern New York
OP orwell84 Ossessionato Joined: UTC Posts: 3844 Location: northern New York	UTC quote SoCalGuy wrote: Thx yeah, figured a machine was involved. It's the operation of said machine I'm having trouble envisioning. SpeedoKing does a fantastic job but even he doesn't duplicate that crazy tight factory crimp. Check this out. Probably a less complex machine back in the day, but the same principle. Maybe Charlieman could make one. 😉 ?si=SytzaJ70YsoITl-7

BajaRob UTC details Molto Verboso 1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, 2003 Malaguti F12 Phantom,Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT Joined: UTC Posts: 1741 Location: Ventura, CA
BajaRob Molto Verboso 1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, 2003 Malaguti F12 Phantom,Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT Joined: UTC Posts: 1741 Location: Ventura, CA	UTC quote SoCalGuy wrote: Thx yeah, figured a machine was involved. It's the operation of said machine I'm having trouble envisioning. SpeedoKing does a fantastic job but even he doesn't duplicate that crazy tight factory crimp. I envision a set of dies in a hydraulic squeezer of some sorts. They could have a different die set for each speedo.🤷🏼

OP orwell84 UTC details Ossessionato Joined: UTC Posts: 3844 Location: northern New York
OP orwell84 Ossessionato Joined: UTC Posts: 3844 Location: northern New York	UTC quote BajaRob wrote: I envision a set of dies in a hydraulic squeezer of some sorts. They could have a different die set for each speedo.🤷🏼 Yes. Probably a small hydraulic press with a simple set of dies. Could be done with a Harbor Freight press and some dies made of wood or MDF.

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Hec In Omaha wrote:

I have never done one but I thought about it on my P125 before I opted for the SIP Rev Counter 2.0. My plan was to buy a new lens and bezel. The bezel is crimped on. To duplicate the crimp, I thought of making a jig out of piece of 2x6 wood. I was thinking of making a hole in the wood with a hole saw slightly smaller than the O.D. of the speedo bezel. Once the hole was made, I would cut the 2x6 in half right through the center of the newly made hole. Next I would drill 3/8" holes through both end of each half to clamp the two pieces back together. Kind of resembles a bearing puller. You would draw the two halves together around the bezel by tightening nuts on the all thread and crimping the bezel down.
Make sure your wiring harness passes through the bottom gap of the front frame bulkhead and bottom of frame. This is just in front of the front brake pedal hole. You don't want the wiring harness resting on top of the bulkhead and passing through the top gap between the bulkhead and frame tunnel top. If you do, the bulkheads top edge will cut, wear and tear on the wire harness over time.

Hec

Rereading your description, I can tell that the wiring is routed correctly.

Thanks again.

Wiring harness should be routed under the arched flange.

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Got the legshield trim on. It was more of a grunt than expected. Not sure the snap-on trim is any easier than the crimped version.

After getting it on, I noticed one section of the trim looked like the finish had scratched off. It either came that way or it rubbed against something. I don't remember that happening though. I tried sanding and polishing it, but sandpaper doesn't even cut it, so I'm doubting it could have scratched off so much of the finish during the install.

Kind of a pisser really. I can either leave it or get a new one and try again. Facepalm emoticon

Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text

WTF? Scratched trim?!?

SaFiS UTC details Ossessionato 1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2 Joined: UTC Posts: 4753 Location: Veria, Greece
SaFiS Ossessionato 1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2 Joined: UTC Posts: 4753 Location: Veria, Greece	UTC quote That looks like low quality repro. Original Piaggio is different and comes with a protective film on it…

OP orwell84 UTC details Ossessionato Joined: UTC Posts: 3844 Location: northern New York
OP orwell84 Ossessionato Joined: UTC Posts: 3844 Location: northern New York	UTC quote SaFiS wrote: That looks like low quality repro. Original Piaggio is different and comes with a protective film on it… It did have protective film on it, which I only took off after it was installed. I'm otherwise happy with the fit and how it looks. I will take a look at it again in the morning. I'm calling it a day. Was sweating like a raped ape getting that trim on.

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SaFiS wrote:

That looks like low quality repro. Original Piaggio is different and comes with a protective film on it…

Checked what I ordered, definitely a repro. Is the Piaggio really any better? They are available at SIP.

Already took the trim off. No scratches. No harm done. Maybe I'll throw it on the Stella. I didn't need to sleep on it to know it would look like ass.

I'll either get another repro or have Scooter Mercato get the Piaggio through SIP. I will check it and tape it before installing.

Plenty of other things to work in while waiting for parts.

SaFiS UTC details Ossessionato 1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2 Joined: UTC Posts: 4753 Location: Veria, Greece
SaFiS Ossessionato 1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2 Joined: UTC Posts: 4753 Location: Veria, Greece	UTC quote Original beats any repro. The only problem with the plastic trim is that it turns yellow if exposed constantly to sunlight… Scooter West seems to have it (just make sure it is the original)… OEM code: 574682 https://www.scooterwest.com/px-plastic-leg-sheild-trim-silver-574682.html

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SaFiS wrote:

Original beats any repro. The only problem with the plastic trim is that it turns yellow if exposed constantly to sunlight…

Scooter West seems to have it (just make sure it is the original)…

OEM code: 574682

https://www.scooterwest.com/px-plastic-leg-sheild-trim-silver-574682.html

Thank you. I can always call and ask. If not, I can get it from SIP.

I'm usually not this picky, but it sticks out like a sore thumb with the new paint. Aside from the scratches, the look and fit were great. Maybe a manufacturing defect or bad batch.

Cheers

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SaFiS wrote:

That looks like low quality repro. Original Piaggio is different and comes with a protective film on it…

Just a FYI for anyone with else with trim OCD.

Dave at Scooter Mercato said they were probably stress cracks from the trim being bent too far at that point. Looking at it again, looks like he is right.

He offered to send me a new one free with my next order, though I didn't ask for refund. We then had one of those long conversations about whatever that many of you are familiar with. He also thought the Piaggio branded trim was likely from the same manufacturer.

Anyway, they are really first class.

SaFis when I first saw your photo, I thought I was looking at my own bike. Twins!

OP orwell84 UTC details Ossessionato Joined: UTC Posts: 3844 Location: northern New York
OP orwell84 Ossessionato Joined: UTC Posts: 3844 Location: northern New York	UTC quote Nothing exciting so far this week other than sandblasting some parts. I mentioned brainless after-work jobs…

OP orwell84 UTC details Ossessionato Joined: UTC Posts: 3844 Location: northern New York
OP orwell84 Ossessionato Joined: UTC Posts: 3844 Location: northern New York	UTC quote Anyone know what Vespa wheels hubs are made of? Appears to be aluminum or magnesium alloy, but I'm not sure. I was considering polishing them rather than paint, though the castings are quite rough. Paint doesn't hold up very well on magnesium. Thanks Original wheel hub after a quick sandblast.

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Clearly, this is intended to be a paint grade part, so paint it is. It's an original Piaggio part. Can't be too fussy with this stuff.

I gotta get my blast cabinet out of the old garage or bring my compressor there and spend some quality time with it. Running crusty parts through the blast cabinet is it's own kind of stress reduction. Like spraying on clean steel. One of my favorite mindless evening jobs.

SoCalGuy UTC details bodgemaster 63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150 Joined: UTC Posts: 7386 Location: So Cal
SoCalGuy bodgemaster 63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150 Joined: UTC Posts: 7386 Location: So Cal	UTC quote Nice work. Now that you have all the old paint off the hubs, fork and swing arm don't cut corners. Do them right: Epoxy prime and spray either a silver base + 2k satin clear or get a single stage 2k silver. The suspension will look and hold up so much better.

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SoCalGuy wrote:

Nice work. Now that you have all the old paint off the hubs, fork and swing arm don't cut corners. Do them right: Epoxy prime and spray either a silver base + 2k satin clear or get a single stage 2k silver. The suspension will look and hold up so much better.

I was going to epoxy prime for sure, but was going to use rattlecan aluminum, followed by rattle can satin clear.

Since the paint and bodywork came out better than expected, it makes it harder to choose cheaper/easier options for the details. The hardest part of getting the details right is getting them clean and rust free in the first place.

Maybe I could epoxy prime followed by rattle can color with 2k urethane clear over it. I have a few different colors to use on various bits and pieces; black, machine grey and aluminum.

chandlerman UTC details Innovator 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3 Joined: UTC Posts: 11495 Location: Nashville 98 Days Since Last Explosion
chandlerman Innovator 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3 Joined: UTC Posts: 11495 Location: Nashville 98 Days Since Last Explosion	UTC quote Given that you're doing two part DTM and two part top coat, you should just do the color coat with two part as well. Get a pint and do it right. Positive

OP orwell84 UTC details Ossessionato Joined: UTC Posts: 3844 Location: northern New York
OP orwell84 Ossessionato Joined: UTC Posts: 3844 Location: northern New York	UTC quote chandlerman wrote: Given that you're doing two part DTM and two part top coat, you should just do the color coat with two part as well. Get a pint and do it right. You're right. I will give Summit Racing a try.

OP orwell84 UTC details Ossessionato Joined: UTC Posts: 3844 Location: northern New York
OP orwell84 Ossessionato Joined: UTC Posts: 3844 Location: northern New York	UTC quote I'm gonna end up turning into a fussy old rivet Nazi…

BajaRob UTC details Molto Verboso 1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, 2003 Malaguti F12 Phantom,Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT Joined: UTC Posts: 1741 Location: Ventura, CA
BajaRob Molto Verboso 1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, 2003 Malaguti F12 Phantom,Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT Joined: UTC Posts: 1741 Location: Ventura, CA	UTC quote The silver basecoat I use before the metal flake goes on is $100 a pint. Ouch! I cry myself to sleep after I buy it. At least it covers well.

chandlerman UTC details Innovator 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3 Joined: UTC Posts: 11495 Location: Nashville 98 Days Since Last Explosion
chandlerman Innovator 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3 Joined: UTC Posts: 11495 Location: Nashville 98 Days Since Last Explosion	UTC quote The summit racing paints are pretty cheap and have done right by me for two projects now. Like $50/quart.

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chandlerman wrote:

The summit racing paints are pretty cheap and have done right by me for two projects now. Like $50/quart.

You're the one who gave me the idea. It's fine for generic colors that don't have to be a perfect match. You can pay a lot for paint. I was happy with the budget urethane I used on the scooter. More expensive paints probably cover better with fewer coats and maybe less finish work. Doesn't matter as much when you are doing the occasional project.

chandlerman UTC details Innovator 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3 Joined: UTC Posts: 11495 Location: Nashville 98 Days Since Last Explosion
chandlerman Innovator 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3 Joined: UTC Posts: 11495 Location: Nashville 98 Days Since Last Explosion	UTC quote orwell84 wrote: More expensive paints probably cover better with fewer coats and maybe less finish work. Doesn't matter as much when you are doing the occasional project. Also, you generally aren't going to worry as much about a perfect result when you're painting a fork. The hub a little more so, but even then, not that much.

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BajaRob wrote:

The silver basecoat I use before the metal flake goes on is $100 a pint. Ouch! I cry myself to sleep after I buy it. At least it covers well.

Yikes that seems pricey for a basecoat but ya, the coverage and quality of pro paint is usually worth it.

orwell84 wrote:

Maybe I could epoxy prime followed by rattle can color with 2k urethane clear over it. I have a few different colors to use on various bits and pieces; black, machine grey and aluminum.

This.^^^ For the extra $10 or so a can, 2k clear is a no brainer.

Hec In Omaha UTC details Hooked 1980 P125X US Spec Joined: UTC Posts: 427 Location: Beaver Lake, Nebraska USA
Hec In Omaha Hooked 1980 P125X US Spec Joined: UTC Posts: 427 Location: Beaver Lake, Nebraska USA	UTC quote My fork on my P125X project and brake drums were powder coated. I paid $150 total on powder coating and that's for: • both brake drums • front brake hub • fork • front brake actuator • rear brake backing plate • battery tray • carb box lid • 3-rims The finish is great and will most likely outlast paint. It's worth considering. Hec

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Hec In Omaha wrote:

My fork on my P125X project and brake drums were powder coated.

I paid $150 total on powder coating and that's for:
• both brake drums
• front brake hub
• fork
• front brake actuator
• rear brake backing plate
• battery tray
• carb box lid
• 3-rims

The finish is great and will most likely outlast paint. It's worth considering.

Hec

Thanks. That's a good deal and came out good too.

OP orwell84 UTC details Ossessionato Joined: UTC Posts: 3844 Location: northern New York
OP orwell84 Ossessionato Joined: UTC Posts: 3844 Location: northern New York	UTC quote SoCalGuy wrote: Yikes that seems pricey for a basecoat but ya, the coverage and quality of pro paint is usually worth it. This.^^^ For the extra $10 or so a can, 2k clear is a no brainer. Are you referring to the 2k Spraymax spray cans? They seem like a decent option for small jobs. Not sure if they are enamel or urethane.

SoCalGuy UTC details bodgemaster 63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150 Joined: UTC Posts: 7386 Location: So Cal
SoCalGuy bodgemaster 63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150 Joined: UTC Posts: 7386 Location: So Cal	UTC quote Spray Max is urethane

OP orwell84 UTC details Ossessionato Joined: UTC Posts: 3844 Location: northern New York
OP orwell84 Ossessionato Joined: UTC Posts: 3844 Location: northern New York	UTC quote SoCalGuy wrote: Spray Max is urethane Great. That's what I'm going to use.

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I have been taking a deep dive into the arcana of trim, floor rails, end caps and rivets to hopefully avoid an extended discussion on the subject. I may end up having a few questions at some point.

I have exactly 11 original early P end caps (the ones with the hole all the way through). I ordered a new set, but they are the later PX type.

I had a look at the Stella last night and found that pop rivets are only used on the end caps, while the all the other rivets are solid with the much celebrated waffle pattern.

I do like the idea of having solid rivets on the front of the legshield, but I honestly never noticed the difference between the scooters in spite of going over both thoroughly.

With the clip on legshield trim, it might be some mixing, matching and cheating anyway. If it's a tidy job, I'll be happy.

Stella/PX end caps.

Pop rivets! The horror!

But hidden from the light of day, the underside is resplendent with waffle pattern rivets. A crying shame.

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Sandblasted a few more things out in the driveway. Still have rims and rear wheel hub left to go.

I did have a question on the floor rails.

Trying to figure out a sure fire way to make sure I drill the legshield trim in the right spot on the front outer rail where the end cap rivet goes.

I was overthinking that I would bolt down the floor rail temporarily and just mark some reference points with tape before installing the legshield trim.

Anyone have a foolproof method?

Thanks.

More blasted bits. Progress…

This bit here.

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I found a thread that covered the exact same issue of how the legshield trim and floor rails are supposed to meet up.

Floor rail/trim lineup

Throwing the link in as it is one of those bits of arcana that someone will search for again.

It's a matter of fiddling with it until finding a way that works and looks decent. It won't look perfect but after a few rides, it will never be noticed again.

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This has been frustrating. I installed the new piece of legshield trim and had the exact same issue with the aluminum layer of the trim cracking under the plastic layer where it bends next to the signal light. Same thing on the other side, even though one slide was slid down the side of the legshield. It went on a lot easier and I didn't have to fight with it.

At this point, I'm just gonna get on with it. 🤬

Not sure why this happens…

Steely Dan UTC details Hooked Lambretta GPs Lambretta S1s, Vespa Gl, Vespa P200, Serveta 150 Joined: UTC Posts: 141 Location: United States
Steely Dan Hooked Lambretta GPs Lambretta S1s, Vespa Gl, Vespa P200, Serveta 150 Joined: UTC Posts: 141 Location: United States	UTC quote That's a bummer and I sympathize with the frustration. Fortunately, once the turn signals are installed they have a bit of overlap and they will be hardly noticeable. Bike looks excellent you should be proud.

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